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Who should the Flyers amnesty?

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Old
04-10-2013, 02:03 PM
  #101
jabba2
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Its possible some team will want to trade for Briere, so for that reason I wouldnt buy him out...unless they are certain Briere has no trade value. Bryz is more complicated because of his salary, im sure they want to see what more he can offer. But if he has another poor to average year, they should probably just buy him out.

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04-10-2013, 02:18 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by jabba2 View Post
Its possible some team will want to trade for Briere, so for that reason I wouldnt buy him out...unless they are certain Briere has no trade value. Bryz is more complicated because of his salary, im sure they want to see what more he can offer. But if he has another poor to average year, they should probably just buy him out.
I doubt a team would trade for Briere during the offseason. Player values decrease in the offseason typically. Teams know that his days are likely numbered in Philly. If they were to pass on the buyout, they'd likely have to wait until the trade deadline to deal him (assuming he is healthy), which means less money to spread around the rest of the team. I think he's gonna go, and that sucks for me because he was my favorite Flyer.

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04-10-2013, 04:59 PM
  #103
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i honestly doubt theyll amnesty anyone this year. briere is finally hittng the sweet part of his deal and bryz was paid that much so he would be here long term. as for predicting the capocalypse 2014 it will most likely be going up a decnt amount. weve all been assuming those contracts would be reflecting good years on solid playoff teams and frankly thats not who these players are. read is a nice 2nd line guy and as a ufa hell get paid but hes a player im not afraid to lose. schenn has been sucktastic and if hes unwilling to come in at less than 3 ill take the picks. cooter is still very young and i dont see why hed be ovarly costly. everyone knows giroux is gonna cost but i doubt someone offers him a max contract.

basicly i think we are waiting on amnesty til somebody shows us theyre actually better than the players we have

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04-10-2013, 05:07 PM
  #104
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I know theres only 2 compliance buyouts, in this order (assuming Pronger doesnt return). Briere, Bryzgalov, Meszaros.

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04-10-2013, 05:09 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I doubt a team would trade for Briere during the offseason. Player values decrease in the offseason typically. Teams know that his days are likely numbered in Philly. If they were to pass on the buyout, they'd likely have to wait until the trade deadline to deal him (assuming he is healthy), which means less money to spread around the rest of the team. I think he's gonna go, and that sucks for me because he was my favorite Flyer.
I guarantee you teams will be calling about Briere in the offseason (Boston and St. Louis "inquired" prior to deadline) the offer wouldn't be big but it would be an offer. Problem is Briere has a NTC.

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04-10-2013, 05:15 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by GingerJesus View Post
I guarantee you teams will be calling about Briere in the offseason (Boston and St. Louis "inquired" prior to deadline) the offer wouldn't be big but it would be an offer. Problem is Briere has a NTC.
Yeah but again things are different at the deadline. In the offseason, guys can be signed so trades are less frequent (if you have a need you can fill it through free agency rather than a trade). Teams would be less inclined before the season even starts when they don't know their playoff situation etc. to trade for an aged player with a high cap hit coming off possibly the worst season of his career who is potentially going to be bought out this offseason or next. Not impossible, of course, but pretty unlikely.

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04-10-2013, 05:24 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by GingerJesus View Post
I guarantee you teams will be calling about Briere in the offseason (Boston and St. Louis "inquired" prior to deadline) the offer wouldn't be big but it would be an offer. Problem is Briere has a NTC.
we could definitely trade him but its the "not for much" part that sucks considering what we could've got this past deadline. I'd almost rather wait til next deadline again but his regular season production doesn't really help his case for keeping him in the plans for us. 6 million + can buy us either a couple new players or one super fancy smancy one. plus, who besides bryzgalov are our real other candidates? id be funny if we amnestied hartnell.

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04-10-2013, 06:07 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by GingerJesus View Post
I guarantee you teams will be calling about Briere in the offseason (Boston and St. Louis "inquired" prior to deadline) the offer wouldn't be big but it would be an offer. Problem is Briere has a NTC.
I think Briere will be amnestied or traded for next to nothing. We're in a similar situation as the Canucks are with Luongo. If we can get a goalie like Bernier in the off season, I'd be fine with getting rid of Bryz this summer.

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04-11-2013, 01:23 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'm not sure what makes you think Regher is better than Coburn. Coburn has outscored him in every season except one since being an NHL regular (in which he was one point behind Regehr but was a +15 to Regehr's +2). Coburn has also been solid defensively throughout his entire NHL career, despite his recent poor season in which the entire team has consistently struggled. I'm not saying Coburn is a great Norris trophy defender, but I am not sure exactly what you see in Regehr that would make you think he is better than Coburn. It can't be his offense since Coburn has 30 points less than Regehr in less than half the games played, so it has to be his defense. While Regehr is good defensively, Coburn is at least on the same level. Again, Coburn hasn't looked great this year, but I don't think that he is all of the sudden not as good as Robyn Regehr. And isn't an offensive PMD what this team is looking for? While Coburn may not be the best defender out there from an offensive potential standpoint, he is clearly better than Regehr in that respect. Why downgrade a position of need (i.e. offense from the blueline)?
its not just this year that Coburn has struggled with consistency. Hes had issues with that the past several seasons. When hes on he is very good. There is no doubt about it. Problem and I think many would agree with me he has not shown enough of it.
Of course you aren't going to get any offense out of Regehr. That isn't his game.
Defensively to me Regehr is better. That is all I am referring to. I don't care about plus/minus. Regehr has been on some rather poor Calgary teams and was on a poor Buffalo team this year before getting dealt.
It is all a moot point anyway. Regehr isn't what this team needs. If they add a defender it will be a PMD.

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04-11-2013, 01:54 AM
  #110
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The problem with Coburn is that he has only been consistent while playing with Kimmo.

When put with Grossmann he was frequently trying too hard, struggling to contribute offensively and getting caught out of position.

Of course, they could unite him with Timonen next season now that Schenn is coming along nicely but once Kimmo is done for good Coburn is no more than a 2nd pairing guy on good days or a third pairing defenseman on ordinary days. One can just hope that Coby had an off year - maybe his heart was no in it now that he has become a father? Just speculating...

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04-11-2013, 03:12 AM
  #111
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Coburn >> Regher right now. Let's get that out of the way. Regher was awful in Buffalo.

Coby needs to be on a pairing with a dynamic defender or a very solid TWD (Timonen) ... or at least somebody who can move the puck. When Coburn plays a simple game he's lights out solid, but when he is in a role where he needs to be dynamic he struggles. Simple as that.

I would explore trading Briere before amnestying him. There's likely no market for him but I'd explore it. Maybe we keep Briere? I like the guy but his cap is troublesome... Meszaros, however, needs to be moved. No doubt in my mind about that. I wouldn't amnesty him though because it's only one year left. Maybe somebody will take him, or again maybe they keep him. If he can actually get healthy and stay healthy instead of rushing back to play he can be solid (as we've seen).

Bryzgalov seems like the obvious buyout candidate, but only if they have other options. Trade for Bernier? Maybe one of the Blues goaltenders will be on the move? Mason+Elliott would be the ultimate bad goaltending duo. Mason+Emery seems like it would be better, if Emery moves on from Chicago. Maybe they revisit Joacim Eriksson?

At the end of the day, there are other goaltending options that would save some cap space. I'd love to get Eriksson over here, but how likely is that? I guess I can dream...

Quote:
BUYOUT: Briere, Bryzgalov
LTIR: Pronger
SIGN: Joakim Eriksson, top-6 forward (JAGR!), bottom-6 forwards, defenders (nobody spectacular...)... etc.

xxx - Giroux - Voracek
Hartnell - Schenn - Simmonds
xxx - Couturier - Read
Rinaldo - xxx - Talbot
Laughton, McGinn, etc.

Coburn - Timonen
Meszaros? - Schenn
Grossmann - xxx
Gustafsson, Gervais, etc.

1a - Eriksson
1b - Mason


Signing some adequate depth players might be nice instead of having to resort to Bruno Gervas, Kurtis Foster, Kent Huskins, Mike Knuble, Adam Hall and trading for Gagne and Jay Rosehill. Other than Gagne all those players are really not good at all, and Gagne is nothing close to his former self.

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04-11-2013, 07:38 AM
  #112
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Gagne is a solid third liner now, and still has his speed. He was worth the fourth round pick.

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04-11-2013, 08:03 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post

Bryzgalov seems like the obvious buyout candidate, but only if they have other options. Trade for Bernier? Maybe one of the Blues goaltenders will be on the move? Mason+Elliott would be the ultimate bad goaltending duo. Mason+Emery seems like it would be better, if Emery moves on from Chicago. Maybe they revisit Joacim Eriksson?

At the end of the day, there are other goaltending options that would save some cap space. I'd love to get Eriksson over here, but how likely is that? I guess I can dream...
There's no way that the Flyers roll Mason and Eriksson as a tandem next year after missing the playoffs this year. That has the potential to be an absolute disaster.

Realistically, Briere is the only buyout candidate this offseason. Bryzgalov could be bought out next year, but not this year.

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04-11-2013, 08:11 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
i honestly doubt theyll amnesty anyone this year. briere is finally hittng the sweet part of his deal and bryz was paid that much so he would be here long term. as for predicting the capocalypse 2014 it will most likely be going up a decnt amount. weve all been assuming those contracts would be reflecting good years on solid playoff teams and frankly thats not who these players are. read is a nice 2nd line guy and as a ufa hell get paid but hes a player im not afraid to lose. schenn has been sucktastic and if hes unwilling to come in at less than 3 ill take the picks. cooter is still very young and i dont see why hed be ovarly costly. everyone knows giroux is gonna cost but i doubt someone offers him a max contract.

basicly i think we are waiting on amnesty til somebody shows us theyre actually better than the players we have
One possibility of trading Brière (leaving his NMC aside for the moment) is that a cap-floor team may crave him for not only his playing ability and diminutive good looks, but that they pay out less than half of his cap hit for 2 seasons. If Brière gets bought out, interested teams would have to negotiate a new deal for him, which would typically mean real dollar = cap dollar, or close to it.

Of course, as I've posted previously, the allure of Brière is probably limited to cap-floor teams, and these are the least likely preferred options for him.

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04-11-2013, 08:14 AM
  #115
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One possibility of trading Brière (leaving his NMC aside for the moment) is that a cap-floor team may crave him for not only his playing ability and diminutive good looks, but that they pay out less than half of his cap hit for 2 seasons. If Brière gets bought out, interested teams would have to negotiate a new deal for him, which would typically mean real dollar = cap dollar, or close to it.

Of course, as I've posted previously, the allure of Brière is probably limited to cap-floor teams, and these are the least likely preferred options for him.
Agreed. OTT (not truly a floor team, in the traditional sense) and NYI are the two that seem to fit best, but I dunno. I think he gets bought out or comes back. A trade seems unlikely in the offseason.

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04-11-2013, 08:23 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
its not just this year that Coburn has struggled with consistency. Hes had issues with that the past several seasons. When hes on he is very good. There is no doubt about it. Problem and I think many would agree with me he has not shown enough of it.
Of course you aren't going to get any offense out of Regehr. That isn't his game.
Defensively to me Regehr is better. That is all I am referring to. I don't care about plus/minus. Regehr has been on some rather poor Calgary teams and was on a poor Buffalo team this year before getting dealt.
It is all a moot point anyway. Regehr isn't what this team needs. If they add a defender it will be a PMD.
Idk man. Maybe we are seeing two different things, but Coburn, even when he isn't playing well, is still right around the same level as Regehr when he IS playing well. When Coburn is playing well he is far and away better than Regehr on offense and a pretty fair amount better on defense too. But you'd rather have the guy that is (arguably) better defensively part of the time and never better offensively instead of the guy who is far and away better offensively and (arguably) sometimes only slightly behind Regehr defensively? Unless you are saying that Regehr is that much better defensively 100% of the time, which I would argue with and disagree completely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
Coburn >> Regher right now. Let's get that out of the way. Regher was awful in Buffalo.

Coby needs to be on a pairing with a dynamic defender or a very solid TWD (Timonen) ... or at least somebody who can move the puck. When Coburn plays a simple game he's lights out solid, but when he is in a role where he needs to be dynamic he struggles. Simple as that.

I would explore trading Briere before amnestying him. There's likely no market for him but I'd explore it. Maybe we keep Briere? I like the guy but his cap is troublesome... Meszaros, however, needs to be moved. No doubt in my mind about that. I wouldn't amnesty him though because it's only one year left. Maybe somebody will take him, or again maybe they keep him. If he can actually get healthy and stay healthy instead of rushing back to play he can be solid (as we've seen).

Bryzgalov seems like the obvious buyout candidate, but only if they have other options. Trade for Bernier? Maybe one of the Blues goaltenders will be on the move? Mason+Elliott would be the ultimate bad goaltending duo. Mason+Emery seems like it would be better, if Emery moves on from Chicago. Maybe they revisit Joacim Eriksson?

At the end of the day, there are other goaltending options that would save some cap space. I'd love to get Eriksson over here, but how likely is that? I guess I can dream...





Signing some adequate depth players might be nice instead of having to resort to Bruno Gervas, Kurtis Foster, Kent Huskins, Mike Knuble, Adam Hall and trading for Gagne and Jay Rosehill. Other than Gagne all those players are really not good at all, and Gagne is nothing close to his former self.
Without even getting into the whole Eriksson debate about signing him, you would pencil him in as a starter??? A guy who never played a minute of North American hockey and plays in probably the lowest scoring league in the world?

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04-11-2013, 08:32 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Agreed. OTT (not truly a floor team, in the traditional sense) and NYI are the two that seem to fit best, but I dunno. I think he gets bought out or comes back. A trade seems unlikely in the offseason.
Briere would probably fit in pretty well on the Island. Throw him on a line with Moulson and/or Okposo and that is a pretty decent scoring threat (assuming Briere rebounds from this season).

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04-11-2013, 08:36 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Briere would probably fit in pretty well on the Island. Throw him on a line with Moulson and/or Okposo and that is a pretty decent scoring threat (assuming Briere rebounds from this season).
Moulson-Tavares-Briere (playing a P. A. Parenteau-like role)
Okposo-Nielsen-Grabner
Bailey-Nelson-Lee
Martin-Cizikas-whoever.

(EDIT: or, Okposo-Strome-Bailey/ Nelson-Nielsen-Grabner as the middle six)

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04-11-2013, 08:39 AM
  #119
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I think Briere is the obvious one. His cap hit is awful. They need to try to trade him for anything. If you cant trade him buy him out. I think as awful as Bryz is, he should get one more year before he gets bought out. Buying out Mez is silly. You can get a pick for him and he only has 1 year left.

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04-11-2013, 08:46 AM
  #120
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Moulson-Tavares-Briere (playing a P. A. Parenteau-like role)
Okposo-Nielsen-Grabner
Bailey-Nelson-Lee
Martin-Cizikas-whoever.

(EDIT: or, Okposo-Strome-Bailey/ Nelson-Nielsen-Grabner as the middle six)
Yeah that works too. He could really take a spot on any of the top three lines and play well. That being said, Briere is my favorite Flyer right now and it would pain me to root against so often playing in the Atlantic. My preference would be go out West. Minnesota or something where I can still root for him.

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04-11-2013, 08:52 AM
  #121
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Homer would be stupid not to accept any trade offer for Briere. If a team comes knocking with a decent offer, you do all you can to make sure Briere waives his NMC

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04-11-2013, 10:27 AM
  #122
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I did some Excel work. I listed all the forwards that "matter." I took their cap hits and divided it into 100ks for clearer units. Then I found their PPGs and determined how much value each player is bringing per 100k cap hit. Just this season only.

Not a perfect system, by far, but the results were interesting. There are mitigating circumstances as well-- such as what line they play on, how much PP time they get, ETC.

If you went purely by value, Briere gives you the least per 100k, with an exception: Hartnell.

Here are the numbers. I assume part of the amnesty question is "current value", so I compared it to some knowledge I have of how corporations measure investments. Sorry, in a rush and have to run off to a meeting, but I'll throw the numbers up. I did this quickly without proofreading. Also: Schenn is coming along nicely.

Briere
Voracek
Hartnell
Giroux
Gagne
Schenn B
Fedotenko
Talbot
Simmonds
Couturier
Read
Knuble
Hall
Rosehill
Rinaldo
McGinn

0.77
2.35
0.72
2.60
1.11
1.87
1.90
1.63
3.97
2.36
6.40
4.27
0.00
6.06
2.87
3.58

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04-11-2013, 11:28 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
There's no way that the Flyers roll Mason and Eriksson as a tandem next year after missing the playoffs this year. That has the potential to be an absolute disaster.

Realistically, Briere is the only buyout candidate this offseason. Bryzgalov could be bought out next year, but not this year.
Just using Eriksson as an example for if Bryzgalov is bought out. Throw Emery there instead, it's all the same.

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04-11-2013, 11:36 AM
  #124
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Amnesty Sleepy Smurf...Bryzgalov....sick of him and his distractions.

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04-11-2013, 03:23 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
I think Briere is the obvious one. His cap hit is awful. They need to try to trade him for anything. If you cant trade him buy him out. I think as awful as Bryz is, he should get one more year before he gets bought out. Buying out Mez is silly. You can get a pick for him and he only has 1 year left.
And apparently he already anticipates the move. Good read on this topic including Briere's view on things and how he prepares his kids on potential changes coming up: http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...-facing-buyout

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