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WOW: Dubey with a .922 save ptg is tied for 7th

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Old
04-10-2013, 06:33 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
5th in the league in save percentage for starting goalies. 1st world problems.
I'd love to see his save percentage when the score is tied. Or in clutch situations in general. He seems to go as the team goes.

I know it's been mentioned on here already, but I'm going to relay the DSF argument on SV%. Basically, a good SV% on a bad team is not the same as a good SV% on a good team. I fought tooth-and-nail as a Dubnyk fan against him on this, but I've come around.

Goalie A is playing more with the lead, facing concerted scoring chances on most shots. Goalie B is playing more with the deficit, and facing less urgent opponents.

Give up an early stinker against a defence-first team, fight all game in vain to tie it up, yet you're still outshot by ten. But only outchanced by a few. Who's the better goalie? Maybe your 5th best SV% goalie on a .400 team isn't so hot after all.

Obviously lacking a 1D or 2D is far more of a causal factor for lack of success, but if Khabibulin retires and our back-up plan is 60th out of 60 in the league (Hi there Danis), any lull that Dubnyk falls into will ruin our playoff chances.

No one's saying "Get rid of Dubnyk", he's still the starter. The team needs help in net, though.

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04-10-2013, 06:40 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
I'd love to see his save percentage when the score is tied. Or in clutch situations in general. He seems to go as the team goes.

I know it's been mentioned on here already, but I'm going to relay the DSF argument on SV%. Basically, a good SV% on a bad team is not the same as a good SV% on a good team. I fought tooth-and-nail as a Dubnyk fan against him on this, but I've come around.

Goalie A is playing more with the lead, facing concerted scoring chances on most shots. Goalie B is playing more with the deficit, and facing less urgent opponents.

Give up an early stinker against a defence-first team, fight all game in vain to tie it up, yet you're still outshot by ten. But only outchanced by a few. Who's the better goalie? Maybe your 5th best SV% goalie on a .400 team isn't so hot after all.

Obviously lacking a 1D or 2D is far more of a causal factor for lack of success, but if Khabibulin retires and our back-up plan is 60th out of 60 in the league (Hi there Danis), any lull that Dubnyk falls into will ruin our playoff chances.

No one's saying "Get rid of Dubnyk", he's still the starter. The team needs help in net, though.
Perhap's goalie B's team is taking more chances offensively in an effort to get back into the game, leading to more odd man rushes, breakaways, and higher quality scoring chances against than goalie A would be?

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04-10-2013, 06:41 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by shoop View Post
Really? Wow, that's just not paying attention.

March 25th - Second goal allowed vs. Nashville
March 7th - First goal against Detroit. Held firm in the first, easy goal to start the second opened the flood gates.
March 3rd The easy wrister to start the third vs. Minnesota

All three games the team "showed up".

We can go back to February and January games if you really want.

What's the line now? Maybe five games with weak goals? Seven? At some point they become inexcusable.
You should watch other goalies. You clearly have no clue how often they let in what you would consider a "weak" goal. None

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04-10-2013, 06:42 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
I'd love to see his save percentage when the score is tied. Or in clutch situations in general. He seems to go as the team goes.

I know it's been mentioned on here already, but I'm going to relay the DSF argument on SV%. Basically, a good SV% on a bad team is not the same as a good SV% on a good team. I fought tooth-and-nail as a Dubnyk fan against him on this, but I've come around.

Goalie A is playing more with the lead, facing concerted scoring chances on most shots. Goalie B is playing more with the deficit, and facing less urgent opponents.

Give up an early stinker against a defence-first team, fight all game in vain to tie it up, yet you're still outshot by ten. But only outchanced by a few. Who's the better goalie? Maybe your 5th best SV% goalie on a .400 team isn't so hot after all.

Obviously lacking a 1D or 2D is far more of a causal factor for lack of success, but if Khabibulin retires and our back-up plan is 60th out of 60 in the league (Hi there Danis), any lull that Dubnyk falls into will ruin our playoff chances.

No one's saying "Get rid of Dubnyk", he's still the starter. The team needs help in net, though.
Clutch situations? Every Oilers game is a clutch situation cause they so rarely outplay anyone. How about this one: among starting goalies only Craig Anderson has a better sv% while on the penalty kill than Dubnyk, and he has been injured for too long to even fairly count his. Or is the penalty kill not a pressure situation either? On the PK he has .912 sv%, better than a number of solid starters' overall sv%.

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04-10-2013, 06:42 PM
  #330
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Teams who are trailing generally take more chances and give up more odd man rushes and scoring chances against. They active their defense more and more often have a forward back covering on rushes up ice against. Teams that are leading generally lock it down playing a trapping style and collapsing around the goalie, forcing the trailing team to take more shots from the perimeter and they also do not pinch or take risks to give up odd man rushes against. Shame on you for using the biggest troll in HF history as the basis of your argument.

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04-10-2013, 06:43 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Where did I say he would be in the lineup immediately?

He would still be a good pickup.
Dont disagree. I just thought in the context of the discussion thats what you were possibly suggesting.

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04-10-2013, 06:44 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Insta View Post
Clutch situations? Every Oilers game is a clutch situation cause they so rarely outplay anyone. How about this one: among starting goalies only Craig Anderson has a better sv% while on the penalty kill than Dubnyk, and he has been injured for too long to even fairly count his. Or is the penalty kill not a pressure situation either? On the PK he has .912 sv%, better than a number of solid starters' overall sv%.
der week gaols.

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04-10-2013, 06:46 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
I'd love to see his save percentage when the score is tied. Or in clutch situations in general. He seems to go as the team goes.

I know it's been mentioned on here already, but I'm going to relay the DSF argument on SV%. Basically, a good SV% on a bad team is not the same as a good SV% on a good team. I fought tooth-and-nail as a Dubnyk fan against him on this, but I've come around.

Goalie A is playing more with the lead, facing concerted scoring chances on most shots. Goalie B is playing more with the deficit, and facing less urgent opponents.

Give up an early stinker against a defence-first team, fight all game in vain to tie it up, yet you're still outshot by ten. But only outchanced by a few. Who's the better goalie? Maybe your 5th best SV% goalie on a .400 team isn't so hot after all.

Obviously lacking a 1D or 2D is far more of a causal factor for lack of success, but if Khabibulin retires and our back-up plan is 60th out of 60 in the league (Hi there Danis), any lull that Dubnyk falls into will ruin our playoff chances.

No one's saying "Get rid of Dubnyk", he's still the starter. The team needs help in net, though.

Pretty sure some people are saying the exact words "get rid of Dubnyk"...Others are saying this guy is not worthy of being a starter...and others present the arguement that we need a solid back-up...

Only one of those groups lives in reality!!!

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04-10-2013, 06:47 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Billybaroo View Post
Dont disagree. I just thought in the context of the discussion thats what you were possibly suggesting.
It was more a discussion started by PsycoDad about how management has failed to draft and develop or trade for quality netminders.

Dubnyk is the only successful goalie draft pick that the Oilers have developed into a solid starter since...Moog?

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04-10-2013, 06:48 PM
  #335
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Pretty sure some people are saying the exact words "get rid of Dubnyk"...Others are saying this guy is not worthy of being a starter...and others present the arguement that we need a solid back-up...

Only one of those groups lives in reality!!!
every team should have a goal of having a solid backup. Unless maybe you had Broduer or Roy in their primes in net.

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04-10-2013, 06:52 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Insta View Post
Clutch situations? Every Oilers game is a clutch situation cause they so rarely outplay anyone. How about this one: among starting goalies only Craig Anderson has a better sv% while on the penalty kill than Dubnyk, and he has been injured for too long to even fairly count his. Or is the penalty kill not a pressure situation either? On the PK he has .912 sv%, better than a number of solid starters' overall sv%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
der week gaols.
Telling stat Insta...at this point if you are still bagging on Dubnyk and I am dumb enough to take the bait...happy trolling



Nabob and Insta this is for you...


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04-10-2013, 06:53 PM
  #337
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every team should have a goal of having a solid backup. Unless maybe you had Broduer or Roy in their primes in net.
I am in total agreement...

oops...perhaps I gave away the group living in reality!!!

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04-10-2013, 08:01 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Perhap's goalie B's team is taking more chances offensively in an effort to get back into the game, leading to more odd man rushes, breakaways, and higher quality scoring chances against than goalie A would be?
Sure, there's that. My scenario doesn't exist in a vacuum, I admit that. But I can't christen Dubnyk as a bonafide number one until I see him on a contender. That's not so much a critique of his current play, as much a caveat for future performance. The jury's still out on Dubnyk, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Insta View Post
Clutch situations? Every Oilers game is a clutch situation cause they so rarely outplay anyone. How about this one: among starting goalies only Craig Anderson has a better sv% while on the penalty kill than Dubnyk, and he has been injured for too long to even fairly count his. Or is the penalty kill not a pressure situation either? On the PK he has .912 sv%, better than a number of solid starters' overall sv%.
Our PKers are a known team strength. Dubnyk is a part of that. I can credit him there. You're right.

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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Teams who are trailing generally take more chances and give up more odd man rushes and scoring chances against. They active their defense more and more often have a forward back covering on rushes up ice against. Teams that are leading generally lock it down playing a trapping style and collapsing around the goalie, forcing the trailing team to take more shots from the perimeter and they also do not pinch or take risks to give up odd man rushes against. Shame on you for using the biggest troll in HF history as the basis of your argument.
No, I think I made my argument quite clear. We are usually vastly outshot yet are usually very close in scoring chances. Dubnyk faces easier shots when we are behind.
Just because he enjoyed yanking everyone's chain, doesn't mean he wasn't an astute hockey observer.

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Originally Posted by actionjackson View Post
Pretty sure some people are saying the exact words "get rid of Dubnyk"...Others are saying this guy is not worthy of being a starter...and others present the arguement that we need a solid back-up...

Only one of those groups lives in reality!!!
Time may prove that second group to be correct. We'll hopefully see how well he does when actually pushed for the starter's job next year. Giving him starter's money and then asking him to earn it, without even pretending to have him compete for the job, seems so very backwards to me.

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04-10-2013, 08:13 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
It was more a discussion started by PsycoDad about how management has failed to draft and develop or trade for quality netminders.

Dubnyk is the only successful goalie draft pick that the Oilers have developed into a solid starter since...Moog?
They almost ****ed that up too. Considering that they gave the reigns Deslauriers.

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04-10-2013, 08:28 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
Sure, there's that. My scenario doesn't exist in a vacuum, I admit that. But I can't christen Dubnyk as a bonafide number one until I see him on a contender. That's not so much a critique of his current play, as much a caveat for future performance. The jury's still out on Dubnyk, IMO.



Our PKers are a known team strength. Dubnyk is a part of that. I can credit him there. You're right.



No, I think I made my argument quite clear. We are usually vastly outshot yet are usually very close in scoring chances. Dubnyk faces easier shots when we are behind.
Just because he enjoyed yanking everyone's chain, doesn't mean he wasn't an astute hockey observer.



Time may prove that second group to be correct. We'll hopefully see how well he does when actually pushed for the starter's job next year. Giving him starter's money and then asking him to earn it, without even pretending to have him compete for the job, seems so very backwards to me.

The jury is still out for me too...I am supportive, but I have not said Dubnyk is the be all end all...I am also open to bringing someone else in...the one place I believe that you hit the nail on the head was giving him starter's money before he had actually earned it...though this may end up as a shrewd more if he progesses next year and the year after...

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04-10-2013, 08:48 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Psycho Dad View Post
No, I think I made my argument quite clear. We are usually vastly outshot yet are usually very close in scoring chances. Dubnyk faces easier shots when we are behind.
Just because he enjoyed yanking everyone's chain, doesn't mean he wasn't an astute hockey observer.
Pfft he's an outed Canucks fan.

The Oilers regularly give up more scoring chances then they get in a game.

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04-10-2013, 09:52 PM
  #342
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Devan Dubnyk.

No bad goals there.

Pfffffffft.

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04-10-2013, 10:14 PM
  #343
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I don't think he was really at fault for those goals. Why was the puck even in our zone? Numerous chances to clear and shotty defensive coverage has killed us all year, no change tonight.

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04-10-2013, 10:16 PM
  #344
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I don't think he was really at fault for those goals. Why was the puck even in our zone? Numerous chances to clear and shotty defensive coverage has killed us all year, no change tonight.
We see what we want to see, I guess.

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04-10-2013, 10:17 PM
  #345
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Devan Dubnyk.

No bad goals there.

Pfffffffft.
Both were goals that he should have had. I'm sure Pheonix thinks he stopes more than a few that should have been goals as well.

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04-10-2013, 10:18 PM
  #346
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I knew this thread would be up near the top after that period.

Spector totally jinxed him in the intermission

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04-10-2013, 10:21 PM
  #347
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Ya, pretty much this.....

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I can't count how many times that he has deflated team momentum by giving up deflating goals, it has happened enough times to the point of it being an alarming pattern.

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04-10-2013, 10:21 PM
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I don't think he was really at fault for those goals. Why was the puck even in our zone? Numerous chances to clear and shotty defensive coverage has killed us all year, no change tonight.
god I hope you forgot the

if not....the first goal was scored from behind the goal line in the fricking corner! the second he put right on Vermette's stick....they were both of the "brutal" variety...

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04-10-2013, 10:21 PM
  #349
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Not a good two goals. First one was horrible, 2nd was based off hardwork by the Coyotes and was bad luck that it went right on the Phx guys stick. Doesn't change anything big picture, he is still far down the list of problems with this team. He'd be one of the last places I'd spend assets in changing.

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04-10-2013, 10:26 PM
  #350
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I don't think he was really at fault for those goals. Why was the puck even in our zone? Numerous chances to clear and shotty defensive coverage has killed us all year, no change tonight.

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