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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XXXV

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Old
04-10-2013, 05:19 PM
  #351
Nzap
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I might be interested in the $3M range for 2-3 years, but much north of that on either worries me.
Which means you won't get him.
You have to take some risks in the FA market. I wouldn't be opposed to a 3 year 4.2mil contract, but I could think he'd be able to get more. Either years or pay. Or even both by a desperate team.

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04-10-2013, 05:51 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
If Ryan asks for $6M long term and doesn't budge again, he's going to get himself in the same situation as last time. He just doesn't have the offensive point totals to get that kind of money, even if he's amazing defensively.

Looking at the list of players that are making $6M or more, ALL of them have at least two PPG or near PPG seasons.
He isn't worth close to 6.5 but the issue is because of the require qualifying offer he CAN get it and based on how he handled this off season I can't imagine him taking a discount.

All I know is that ROR at 6.5 is going to be just as much of an albatross as Stastny would be.

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04-10-2013, 06:11 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
He isn't worth close to 6.5 but the issue is because of the require qualifying offer he CAN get it and based on how he handled this off season I can't imagine him taking a discount.

All I know is that ROR at 6.5 is going to be just as much of an albatross as Stastny would be.
Only difference being that Stastny actually earned his contract when he first go it with 2 PPG seasons.

ROR likely wont have even a 60 point season and he'll get his.

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Old
04-10-2013, 06:25 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
He isn't worth close to 6.5 but the issue is because of the require qualifying offer he CAN get it and based on how he handled this off season I can't imagine him taking a discount.

All I know is that ROR at 6.5 is going to be just as much of an albatross as Stastny would be.
There isn't any reason for Avs to choose to qualify him instead of taking him to arbitration if it goes to next summer without a new contract.

If Avs qualify him, O'Reilly will choose a two year deal and get $6.5M/year and then be a UFA. If Avs instead take him to arbitration they have a chance to reduce his salary to $5.5M/year for two years and both parties get an extra month or two to negotiate to avoid arbitration.

Hopefully both sides want to avoid it going that far. A long term contract is better for both parties.

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Old
04-10-2013, 06:33 PM
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
He isn't worth close to 6.5 but the issue is because of the require qualifying offer he CAN get it and based on how he handled this off season I can't imagine him taking a discount.

All I know is that ROR at 6.5 is going to be just as much of an albatross as Stastny would be.
And the Avs CAN take ROR to arbitration to lower that contract to $5.525M. If the Avs cannot extend or trade ROR before then, I think it's certain that they will do so. This ownership group certainly isn't going to burn almost a million dollars just to avoid stepping on some toes. If the Avs make that clear to ROR, they could convince him and his agent to negotiate off of $5.525M instead of $6.5M.

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Old
04-10-2013, 07:08 PM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nzap View Post
Which means you won't get him.
You have to take some risks in the FA market. I wouldn't be opposed to a 3 year 4.2mil contract, but I could think he'd be able to get more. Either years or pay. Or even both by a desperate team.
And I'm fine with that. I don't put a high priority on paying an eventual 37 or 38 year old defensive defenseman $4M+. I'd rather explore other options, even if the players aren't as good next year.

That's not the kind of risk I'd like to see the Avs take.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
He isn't worth close to 6.5 but the issue is because of the require qualifying offer he CAN get it and based on how he handled this off season I can't imagine him taking a discount.

All I know is that ROR at 6.5 is going to be just as much of an albatross as Stastny would be.
Just because he has a QO for $6.5M doesn't mean he can't sign for less long term. If he's realistic he'll realize he can't get that kind of money with at most one PPG season if he does so next year. He can just use that as leverage to to get as high in the $5M range as he can.

He has to stop overvaluing himself at some point, and put himself in the company of guys like Bergeron, Kesler ($5M) or Richards (5.75M).

Kesler and Richards are very comparable, as they both never had a PPG season until their contract year. Bergeron had multiple PPG seasons when he signed his.

If he can get the Avs to go up to $5.75 he should take it IMO, but I'm not sure they'll go that high. I'd guess $5.5M would be their max, and I wouldn't be surprised if they'd stick to $5M. This is if they have interest in resigning him at all.

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04-10-2013, 07:12 PM
  #357
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I think the Avs are in for an extremely quiet off season. Do any of you agree?

We have about 8.0M of cap space this summer with Stastny, O'Reilly, Landeskog, Duchene, Downie, McGinn and Barries contract up next summer. Unless we are going for someone with a 1-year contract, I think not much will happen. It wouldn't make much sense from a cap-perspective to sign some d-man like Scuderi for 2-3 years with a big salary. Unless they want to handcuff themselces for thar 2014 summer.

Edit: After the re-signing of Landeskog, O'Reilly, Duchene etc we might go hard on the free agency at the summer of 2014. Would make more sense then doing it now. Not really any attrative pieces in the market now and we don't know how much money we will have availble for the next few years until AFTER we have re-signed our courplayers.

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Old
04-10-2013, 07:23 PM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
I think the Avs are in for an extremely quiet off season. Do any of you agree?

We have about 8.0M of cap space this summer with Stastny, O'Reilly, Landeskog, Duchene, Downie, McGinn and Barries contract up next summer. Unless we are going for someone with a 1-year contract, I think not much will happen. It wouldn't make much sense from a cap-perspective to sign some d-man like Scuderi for 2-3 years with a big salary. Unless they want to handcuff themselces for thar 2014 summer.

Edit: After the re-signing of Landeskog, O'Reilly, Duchene etc we might go hard on the free agency at the summer of 2014. Would make more sense then doing it now. Not really any attrative pieces in the market now and we don't know how much money we will have availble for the next few years until AFTER we have re-signed our courplayers.
I feel like they'll make another trade for a defenseman. At the draft maybe.

I think they'll try to unload Jones and one of Zanon or O'Brien (hopefully Zanon) too for whatever they can get, and look to replace them with mid tier UFAs.

Or they could do very little like you say, but I feel like they'll push hard to get those things done.

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Old
04-10-2013, 07:46 PM
  #359
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Would love to sign Streit... it's nice to dream.

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Old
04-10-2013, 08:05 PM
  #360
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These last 8 games will be a tryout for Malone and Elliott I hope.
After that I'm really hoping that this offseason is about making the contract situation better for next year and picking up some a veteran forward presence to take over for Hejduk.

Jones and 2 defensemen need to be gone. If Colorado only has 8 million in cap space this season, then a bunch of players to sign the year after it may not look as great as we have been thinking it may be for the past two years.

After looking at it, Colorado can get it's cap reduced by another 8-10 million with the subtraction of three players. Which would be awesome.

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Old
04-10-2013, 08:24 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
I think the Avs are in for an extremely quiet off season. Do any of you agree?
I don't think the Avalanche will make a huge splash contract wise, but I think they will change enough for it to be interesting. New coach, Jonathan Drouin/Seth Jones/Nathan MacKinnon, and a few culture change players.

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Old
04-10-2013, 09:07 PM
  #362
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I wouldn't trade Jones. His contract doesn't become a problem until after next season, and we probably will need him on the wing. His shooting percentage is 1/3 of his career average. He won't be this bad next year, especially with a full training camp. Need to give him a chance to bounce back with a full season.

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04-10-2013, 09:31 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
I wouldn't trade Jones. His contract doesn't become a problem until after next season, and we probably will need him on the wing. His shooting percentage is 1/3 of his career average. He won't be this bad next year, especially with a full training camp. Need to give him a chance to bounce back with a full season.
If it's a problem then, it's a problem now. It's still 4mill for a guy that has proved he's a servicable 3rd line player getting steady 2nd liner money.

And if he does get another chance, I hope it is in a completely diminished role until he can prove that he can play NHL level hockey with and without the puck and work on his decision making drastically.

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Old
04-10-2013, 09:55 PM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holyhell View Post
If it's a problem then, it's a problem now. It's still 4mill for a guy that has proved he's a servicable 3rd line player getting steady 2nd liner money.

And if he does get another chance, I hope it is in a completely diminished role until he can prove that he can play NHL level hockey with and without the puck and work on his decision making drastically.
He also was the Avs leading goal scorer two years ago, and the third leading goal scorer last year. He's having a really bad year, I won't deny that, but I won't be the least bit surprised to see him bounce back next year after a full training camp and hopefully a new coach. He's not this bad a player and the Avs won't have cap issues next season. It's also much easier to trade a guy who has a bounce back year and with less years on his contract. His value is probably negative right now and I think you have to give him another year before buying him out.

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Old
04-10-2013, 10:03 PM
  #365
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I think the best time to move Jones will be next years deadline.

Hopefully he is producing at a decent pace again and has 15ish goals at next years deadline. Move him to a true contender for a late 1st or 2nd then.

This offseason nobody will want to touch Jones' contract. Everyone will be number crunching to stay below the cap.


I think we'll likely see Sacco fired(Hopefully), Drouin/Mack/Jones brought in. And then a veteran defender brought in. Ideally Scuderi or Streit.

Maybe a better 3/4C to replace McClement. Gordon is easily my choice for that role.

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Old
04-10-2013, 10:31 PM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
Hopefully he is producing at a decent pace again and has 15ish goals at next years deadline. Move him to a true contender for a late 1st or 2nd then.
He's not bringing back a pick like that with two more years left. I think the best we could hope for is a cheaper, younger 3rd line player.

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04-10-2013, 10:32 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
He also was the Avs leading goal scorer two years ago, and the third leading goal scorer last year. He's having a really bad year, I won't deny that, but I won't be the least bit surprised to see him bounce back next year after a full training camp and hopefully a new coach. He's not this bad a player and the Avs won't have cap issues next season. It's also much easier to trade a guy who has a bounce back year and with less years on his contract. His value is probably negative right now and I think you have to give him another year before buying him out.
Well hopefully he has a bounce back then, because spots are going to start being eaten up, it's up to Jones himself to keep above the competition and prove his worth. No better time to start than now, I think after this season all the young guys are going to be getting legitimate shots at the empty positions. Malone, Hishon, Sgarbossa, Vincour and possibly a MacKinnon or Drouin will push him out at this rate.

As far as wingers go that have played this year and could/should compete next year:

Landeskog
Parenteau
McGinn
Malone
McLeod
Mitchell
Downie
Palushaj
Jones

Adding some players too will only make him less useful. Unless he comes back and makes a guy expendable.

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04-10-2013, 10:57 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
He's not bringing back a pick like that with two more years left. I think the best we could hope for is a cheaper, younger 3rd line player.
Maybe, but when he is playing to his abilities he is a very useful guy who can play a 2nd or 3rd line role.

If he has 15 goals at next years deadline and playing to those abilities, some teams might be interested in him as more then just the loan type. He would only be overpaid by about 1M.

If we retained 1M of his salary say, we should easily be able to get a 1st for him.

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04-10-2013, 11:14 PM
  #369
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Maybe, but when he is playing to his abilities he is a very useful guy who can play a 2nd or 3rd line role.

If he has 15 goals at next years deadline and playing to those abilities, some teams might be interested in him as more then just the loan type. He would only be overpaid by about 1M.

If we retained 1M of his salary say, we should easily be able to get a 1st for him.
Maybe you get a first for him, probably not though, not nearly well known or established enough. You could get rid of him for 1/3rd a million more...

http://capgeek.com/buyout-calculator...06&buyout_d=15

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04-10-2013, 11:23 PM
  #370
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IMO during the offseason,

- We trade for a defenseman
- We sign a defenseman
- We sign a bottom 6 forward
- (maybe) We trade one of our depth defensemen.

That is what I see us doing.

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04-11-2013, 03:31 AM
  #371
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IMO during the offseason,

- We trade for a defenseman
- We sign a defenseman
- We sign a bottom 6 forward
- (maybe) We trade one of our depth defensemen.

That is what I see us doing.
Realistically, I don't see us signing two defenseman.

FA (hopefully Scuduri) - Johnson
Hejda - Barrie
Wilson - SOB/Hunwick
Hunwick Zanon

Good chance of getting Scuduri IMO. He just won a cup, we have the cap space to overpay a bit, and he'll get plenty of minutes.

We aren't going to buy out Zanon, no matter how bad he is. IMO they'll do Elliot + Siemens in the AHL for at least half the season. SOB will be gone next year by trade deadline, hopefully Hunwick as well.

As for a bottom 6 forward, I think that largely will depend on if they decide to keep both Staz + RoR or not. My ideal realistic line combos would still be

X - Duchene - PAP
Landeskog - RoR - Downie
McGinn - Stastny - Mitchell
Bordeleau - X - Mcleod

I don't see us getting Gordon. He would be perfect for us, but he would be perfect for any other team needing depth like the Sharks, and I see no reason why he would pick the Avs over a playoff contender. If Jagr wants money, throw him a large 1 year offer and slot him with Duchene + PAP and watch magic happen.

Not sure who goes on Dutchy's left wing. If in the offseason we get a new coach, i'd like to see McGinn back with Staz. He has too nice of a shot, and doesn't get enough sweet spots to snipe goals from.

So with that being said, I think we're a playoff bubble team at best. Losing Winnik + McClement hurts a lot in retrospect. Both were fantastic bottom 6 players and PKers. Ideally, we only have one of Bordeleau or Mcleod in at a time, and the other two players are defensively sound/PK specialists. However, I don't see any available on the market of the same caliber.

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Old
04-11-2013, 08:50 AM
  #372
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I think the Avs are in for an extremely quiet off season. Do any of you agree?
I definitely agree. There are too many RFA contracts coming up at the end of next season, for them to pony up UFA contracts after this season.

Next year's deadline should be interesting though.

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Old
04-11-2013, 08:53 AM
  #373
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Maybe, but when he is playing to his abilities he is a very useful guy who can play a 2nd or 3rd line role.

If he has 15 goals at next years deadline and playing to those abilities, some teams might be interested in him as more then just the loan type. He would only be overpaid by about 1M.

If we retained 1M of his salary say, we should easily be able to get a 1st for him.
There's simply no way this will happen, IMO. If Jones has 15 goals at next year's deadline (thus on pace for 20 or so), the Avs may as well keep him. They won't get a 1st for him. He is strictly a one-trick pony, and I believe the world knows it.

Of course, 15 goals is a big 'if' right now. That guy has completely lost his game.

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04-11-2013, 08:57 AM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I feel like they'll make another trade for a defenseman. At the draft maybe.

I think they'll try to unload Jones and one of Zanon or O'Brien (hopefully Zanon) too
I can't see them doing the first, without first doing the second. Otherwise, there are too many guys signed.

And how can they unload those guys? Jones' contract is awful, Zanon simply stinks, O'Brien also has two years left on his contract and he's sat the pine for much of the season for the worst defensive team in the league. What nutzoid GM is going to pony up for any of them? Sherman already works for Colorado, so that won't work. Maybe Feaster has another rabbit or two in his hat?

The only real option that I see, is the Avs eating contract money to dump these guys. After them being in the bottom 3rd of the league in salary for 4 consecutive years, I'm not hopeful.

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Old
04-11-2013, 09:16 AM
  #375
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I'd just put Zanon, Hunwick and probably SOB through waivers and see if there are any takers. If not, stash them in the AHL and use the roster spots in other guys.

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