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Old
04-10-2013, 09:20 PM
  #376
Mrb1p
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Great post. Time frame and context is missing but great post none the less.

Can you help me with the search feature for old posts? I need to pull up what some people said about Halak, Kaberle, Cole, Mara, Sopel, Gauthier, Martin and Cunneyworth.

Hockey internet message boards are serious stuff.

PS. I might lose some sleep tonight over that post. Or might not. I'll let you know tomorrow.
Just waiting for the day you will finally eat your huge 100 pound crow waiting outside.

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04-10-2013, 09:29 PM
  #377
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DD needs a demotion or moved to wing. He was put into a position and was trusted with shouldering a load offensively, given the best wingers and has failed. He had a slow start, heated up a bit, and now is pretty awful again. IMO he cannot be relied upon to carry the load he's been asked, even with his sheltered minutes. Give Eller a shot at #2, especially with him being hot right now because

A)There comes a time when we need to test him
B)He's earned his shot
and
C)Slotting him into 2C will more than likely result in wins, which is the bottom line, especially with the Bs leapfrogging us.

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04-10-2013, 09:32 PM
  #378
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By now the fans don't have to feel sorrowful about losing Halak. Eller fills an important need at an otherwise vulnerable position.

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04-10-2013, 09:33 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
You won't like this answer:

But how would it reflects on Therrien's?
In MTL, poeple greatly overrated DD.....

When it didn't work in the beginning of the season.....poeple start to blame it on Pacioretty's injury, Cole is a slow starter, on RDS Blog (right now) some already start to blame Gallagher not being the right type of player for DD.....

Never DD's fault....
No excuses doesn't apply to him.
(At least on the french RDS)

If Therrien doesn't get DD going....who do you think is next for the blame game?
Already started.....Some start blaming Therrien for not being able to used DD properly
as he was last year.

But there's the thing......

First season: 14 points in 43 games (Without PP)
Second season: 40 points in 82 games (Without PP)
This season: 18 points in 39 games (Without PP)

If you take out the Powerplay out of DD's game....what do you have left?

A 35-40pts player who can't play on any special units, not responsable defensively, bring absolutely no thoughness or grit.

And Therrien will be responsible for not being able to bring the best out of DD as all other coach have done previously.

I understand why Therrien is scared to take him the PP....but i don't agree!
I think you try too hard with this.

IF you take the PP out of DD's game? I mean, if you remove his minutes he'll have same number of points(he hasn't been efficient there). But you can't just assume he will forever lose his ability to play well on that special team. It's like me suggesting Eller loses his PK ability or defensive ability. It's a stretch.

Besides that, I think they need DD to contribute on PP but a change doesn't do harm. DD doesn't need to be removed forever but he's not getting it done right now and Eller is playing better. Had a good tip yesterday and he should be getting at least a game or two with more PP time to send a message to DD that his job isn't safe.

If Eller produces then keep him. Why change it? If you earn it, keep it. I think Eller earned it right now and DD should reclaim it. Not really French or media bias. I think it's just a matter of trying to play to player's strengths but still doesn't hurt to mix it up every now and then.

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04-10-2013, 09:39 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think you try too hard with this.

IF you take the PP out of DD's game? I mean, if you remove his minutes he'll have same number of points(he hasn't been efficient there). But you can't just assume he will forever lose his ability to play well on that special team. It's like me suggesting Eller loses his PK ability or defensive ability. It's a stretch.

Besides that, I think they need DD to contribute on PP but a change doesn't do harm. DD doesn't need to be removed forever but he's not getting it done right now and Eller is playing better. Had a good tip yesterday and he should be getting at least a game or two with more PP time to send a message to DD that his job isn't safe.

If Eller produces then keep him. Why change it? If you earn it, keep it. I think Eller earned it right now and DD should reclaim it. Not really French or media bias. I think it's just a matter of trying to play to player's strengths but still doesn't hurt to mix it up every now and then.
Agreed. DD obviously is this kind of player you'd put on the PP, but clearly it's not working. MT has to do what's best for the team and reward the hot hand so that we can get W's. We have an abundance of forwards who could play on the PP, and at the moment DD should be pushed out of the rotation

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Old
04-10-2013, 10:24 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Just waiting for the day you will finally eat your huge 100 pound crow waiting outside.
I guess you did not see my posts about Eller's line being the best for the Habs for the last two games.

Eller is an important cog for this team which has led to its success this season.

I cheered just as loud for Eller's goals last night as I would have for any other Habs player.

I am a Habs fan first and foremost.

Said it before and will say it again. I will be extremely excited if tomorrow nights game winning goal is potted by Eller. And it would be just as exciting if it were on a PP.

Peace man.

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04-10-2013, 10:34 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I guess you did not see my posts about Eller's line being the best for the Habs for the last two games.

Eller is an important cog for this team which has led to its success this season.

I cheered just as loud for Eller's goals last night as I would have for any other Habs player.

I am a Habs fan first and foremost.

Said it before and will say it again. I will be extremely excited if tomorrow nights game winning goal is potted by Eller. And it would be just as exciting if it were on a PP.

Peace man.
So not a 4th liner's ceiling anymore then?

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04-10-2013, 10:53 PM
  #383
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So not a 4th liner's ceiling anymore then?
No. No way. The only thing I recall saying about ceiling was that Galchenyuk's is higher than Eller's.

I cant search for that post on that thread so I cannot reference it for context.

I will say that Eller has made a dramatic improvement to his game this season. Chuckie still has a higher ceiling. Eller's two way game gives him a big advantage over DD since DD is more one-dimensional.

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Old
04-10-2013, 10:57 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
No. No way. The only thing I recall saying about ceiling was that Galchenyuk's is higher than Eller's.

I cant search for that post on that thread so I cannot reference it for context.

I will say that Eller has made a dramatic improvement to his game this season. Chuckie still has a higher ceiling. Eller's two way game gives him a big advantage over DD since DD is more one-dimensional.
Thats really the defining point of the Eller/DD debate; Eller is much more polyvalent. Like a lot of people, i think there'll be no choice but to move DD to the right wing in the near future.

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04-10-2013, 11:09 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy View Post
Thats really the defining point of the Eller/DD debate; Eller is much more polyvalent. Like a lot of people, i think there'll be no choice but to move DD to the right wing in the near future.
And that is a valid debate that has merit.

My issue with the entire Eller vs DD discussion is the tendency to default to DD sucks, we lost because of DD, etc and so on.

I am on the record as being in favor of trading DD and Gionta in the offseason to get more size up front. So I am not a DD fan. Its just a shame that the discussion between our two centers turns into a zero-sum game when in fact, both have contributed to the success of this team.

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:34 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
And that is a valid debate that has merit.

My issue with the entire Eller vs DD discussion is the tendency to default to DD sucks, we lost because of DD, etc and so on.

I am on the record as being in favor of trading DD and Gionta in the offseason to get more size up front. So I am not a DD fan. Its just a shame that the discussion between our two centers turns into a zero-sum game when in fact, both have contributed to the success of this team.
Agreed. I'm moreso on the fence about DD at the moment. I think he can pick it up still. Eller should definitely be getting more minutes though.

Gionta on the other hand should be the first of our forwards to go. We have so many potential leaders on this team that we should be fine. I don'g hate him but we can do so much better at a way lesser price

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04-10-2013, 11:42 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post
Agreed. I'm moreso on the fence about DD at the moment. I think he can pick it up still. Eller should definitely be getting more minutes though.

Gionta on the other hand should be the first of our forwards to go. We have so many potential leaders on this team that we should be fine. I don'g hate him but we can do so much better at a way lesser price
Gionta's age will limit his longevity with the Habs, so why worry about it? Sooner or later one of the prospects will replace him.

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:50 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post

Gionta on the other hand should be the first of our forwards to go. We have so many potential leaders on this team that we should be fine. I don'g hate him but we can do so much better at a way lesser price
There's been a lot of Gionta bashing on these boards lately but i have to come to his defence. I know he's small, but unlike DD, he's a proven playoff performer. I suspect he's pacing himself so that he can bring it when it matters most. Do people here remember what he did for us on the Halak run? After Cammalari, he was the guy who scored for us. Just wait for the playoffs, you'll see.

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:59 PM
  #389
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The moment I saw Eller played for the first time with the habs I saw a top 6 ceiling for him and I always stood by this opinion. I'm very happy to see that I was right on this one. I don't think Therrien should demote Desharnais though, don't fix something that isn't broken ! The Habs are doing great right now so...

Then again I think Eller should get a little more PP I would like to see him get around 1min30s on average.

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Old
04-11-2013, 12:00 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Gionta's age will limit his longevity with the Habs, so why worry about it? Sooner or later one of the prospects will replace him.
Agreed, Gionta only has one more year on his contract, after that he either take a huge discount and become a 3rd liner or he leaves. Not much to worry about.

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04-11-2013, 01:31 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Gionta's age will limit his longevity with the Habs, so why worry about it? Sooner or later one of the prospects will replace him.
Seems Gallagher is going to be the one replacing Gionta.
But as far as I can see, we can wait a bit before this happens.

I want Gionta in PO this season.

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Old
04-11-2013, 02:32 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by FuzzyWuzzy View Post
Thats really the defining point of the Eller/DD debate; Eller is much more polyvalent. Like a lot of people, i think there'll be no choice but to move DD to the right wing in the near future.
I agree that Eller is getting better and is continuing to improve.
If the choice is between Eller and DD, then I would choose the former.
This does not mean to get rid of DD.
For now DD is a know player in the league and Eller's star is rising.

Decisions have to be taken and I trust MT to handle this properly.
In recent games, Eller had more PP time.
We need to wait and see how things are going to unfold.
For all we know there is a good chance that Eller will even improve next season.
But DD could very well come back with a 70 points season next season.

For now, he is a very good center, a clear top-9 in any team in the league and a top-6 in 80% of the teams.

To resume, I agree that Eller is ahead of DD in progression. Still think DD is 5th in our forwards despite having a very bad performance in PP.
The best PP unit would be Plek-Ryder-MaxPac followed by Eller-DD-Gionta/Bourque.

We must remember that DD has been playing with Gallagher.
He was great with two big players: Cole and MaxPac.
Put DD with two of Eller-MaxPac-Bourque-Galchenyuk-Ryder or even Prust.

MT has no Crosby nor Malkin available so he is trying to build stable units with chemistry.
He is already giving warnings to DD about his performance.
So we should expect two things from him:
  1. change the recipe;
  2. give DD more size on the wings.

One thing for sure, I would hate to see DD being traded and score more than 60 points elsewhere.

We did invest a lot in DD and we had very good rewards.
Not sure this is the time to give up.
Especially after a few weeks where his performance is below expectations.

We also have to look at Scap in this.
In term of points, I see Ryder, Plek, MaxPac, Gionta (same as DD) having more (or same) points as DD. Only MaxPac is younger at twice the cost.

For now, we have one season of DD of 60 points at 870K.
This season is a pace of 46 points at the same price.
Worst case, DD provides us with 40-50 points at 3.5m.

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Old
04-11-2013, 02:57 AM
  #393
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Eller is a great player.
I do expect MB to offer him a 2.5-3.5M for 4-5 years this summer.
MB will want to lock him for many years.
Expect also a serious offer to Diaz, Emelin and PK to be done after this.

With Plek-Eller-DD-Bourque-MaxPac-PK-Diaz locked in and Gally-Chucky-Beaulieu-Tinordi in our future we should be good.

Eller is a significant part of our future.
We traded Halak to get him...

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04-11-2013, 07:47 AM
  #394
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So not only do we give DD the best wingers on the team but now we should give him the size as well...

You know why Crosby is so good...because he makes ANYONE he plays with better. Jesus Fn Christ he made Chris Kuntiz a goal scorer!!

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04-11-2013, 08:03 AM
  #395
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So not only do we give DD the best wingers on the team but now we should give him the size as well...

You know why Crosby is so good...because he makes ANYONE he plays with better. Jesus Fn Christ he made Chris Kuntiz a goal scorer!!
We only call them to best wingers when they are with DD.

Ryder is the best offensive winger on the team, doesn't play with DD. Gallagher doesn't have size, plays with DD.

I have yet to hear people defend DD when Cole was sucking.

There's no doubt DD gets a solid winger in max on his side and Eller has got less than optimal wingers, there's no denying Max is superior to alex at this point. Still, I think too much emphasis is put on DD's linemates and not his game. He needs to be better regardless of who he plays with.

As you implied, as a playmaker he should be making his wingers better but he's not doing his job effectively. His PP production is meh and Eller should be given a chance.

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04-11-2013, 08:46 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
No. No way. The only thing I recall saying about ceiling was that Galchenyuk's is higher than Eller's.

I cant search for that post on that thread so I cannot reference it for context.

I will say that Eller has made a dramatic improvement to his game this season. Chuckie still has a higher ceiling. Eller's two way game gives him a big advantage over DD since DD is more one-dimensional.
Well Chuckie could become an 80-90 point player, so of course his ceiling is higher than Eller.

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Old
04-11-2013, 08:51 AM
  #397
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So not only do we give DD the best wingers on the team but now we should give him the size as well...

You know why Crosby is so good...because he makes ANYONE he plays with better. Jesus Fn Christ he made Chris Kuntiz a goal scorer!!
Why bring in Crosby? Nobody has compared DD to Crosby.

DD does certain things very well, and in order to maximise his production, he needs to play with certain type of players. Right now Ryder is our best or 2nd best winger and he plays with Plekanec. Last year I agree DD had the two best wingers and he put up great numbers, he also helped those guys have great years, so it's a 2 way street.

I think at some point he will be made obsolete by Galchenyuk, maybe in 14-15, definitely not in 13-14. I doiubt MB signed him to an extension only to trade him this summer...but in June-July 2014 I could see him moved.

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04-11-2013, 08:58 AM
  #398
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And that is a valid debate that has merit.

My issue with the entire Eller vs DD discussion is the tendency to default to DD sucks, we lost because of DD, etc and so on.

I am on the record as being in favor of trading DD and Gionta in the offseason to get more size up front. So I am not a DD fan. Its just a shame that the discussion between our two centers turns into a zero-sum game when in fact, both have contributed to the success of this team.
This is the HFBoards way. If you defend someone, you're a homer, if you criticize, you're a hater.
There's very little room for neutrality here, everything is always black or white.

In the same sense, a lot of people resort to diminishing another player in order to make a point about another one.
Sadly, it's been like that for a while now here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
The moment I saw Eller played for the first time with the habs I saw a top 6 ceiling for him and I always stood by this opinion. I'm very happy to see that I was right on this one. I don't think Therrien should demote Desharnais though, don't fix something that isn't broken ! The Habs are doing great right now so...

Then again I think Eller should get a little more PP I would like to see him get around 1min30s on average.
It's not about fixing something that isn't broken, it's more about improving what you have.
It's not because we're winning that things are perfect and nothing should be worked on.
We could get more out of our top 9, so might as well try to find those perfect combinations.

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Old
04-11-2013, 12:16 PM
  #399
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People who talk about goal totals in regard to centerman don't really understand the position all that well.

That being said.. Plekanec, Eller and Galchenyuk all use their shots to force the opposition to be honest. Which is why DD is struggling this season, when your only play is cycle to Gallagher or pass to Patches for a one-timer, defenses just let you get into the slot and trust you won't put it on net.

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04-11-2013, 12:21 PM
  #400
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People who talk about goal totals in regard to centerman don't really understand the position all that well.
It's also not honest because Eller is shooting at well below his average right now - his shooting % is only slightly higher than Plekanec's last year, when Plekanec got "only" 17 goals.

A playmaking center's priority isn't scoring goals, but Eller is still playing like a 15-20 goal, 50 point "3rd liner".

Those are Jordan Staal numbers.

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