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4/9/13-Blues@Preds-"Barry Trotz Kind of Players"

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Old
04-10-2013, 04:03 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
We're still trying to discredit the sellout streak? We must be one demented fanbase to try and crap on ourselves for selling out, either that or a lot of Preds fans live in and only get their news from Toronto.
for real.

I remember going to games in an empty barn and being glad to be there, and now people complain about a couple hundred "unsold" tickets...

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04-10-2013, 04:06 PM
  #127
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back to the ice.....

If you are looking at guys to fill spots in October, I think Beck is close. Watson will be a nice test case over the last games, as will Forsberg when/if he plays.

One thing that is exciting is the typr of big boys we are calling up. Watson, Beck, and Bang all with big frames. Add in Budish and this has the potential to be a fun team.

remember a few years ago the Blues sucked and played Backes, Oshie, and Bergland before they were ready to get some games under their belt. We are seeing the same here.

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04-10-2013, 04:11 PM
  #128
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Personally, I think our offense will work itself out will a healthy Wilson, Horns, Fisher, etc... I think our biggest need this off season will be a legit D-man.

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04-10-2013, 04:43 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
back to the ice.....

If you are looking at guys to fill spots in October, I think Beck is close. Watson will be a nice test case over the last games, as will Forsberg when/if he plays.

One thing that is exciting is the typr of big boys we are calling up. Watson, Beck, and Bang all with big frames. Add in Budish and this has the potential to be a fun team.

remember a few years ago the Blues sucked and played Backes, Oshie, and Bergland before they were ready to get some games under their belt. We are seeing the same here.
thats exactly how I feel we are headed. Im hoping we turn it around faster though. Luckily we have Rinne and Weber.

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04-10-2013, 05:30 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
back to the ice.....

If you are looking at guys to fill spots in October, I think Beck is close. Watson will be a nice test case over the last games, as will Forsberg when/if he plays.

One thing that is exciting is the typr of big boys we are calling up. Watson, Beck, and Bang all with big frames. Add in Budish and this has the potential to be a fun team.

remember a few years ago the Blues sucked and played Backes, Oshie, and Bergland before they were ready to get some games under their belt. We are seeing the same here.
Right, i'm trying to stay positive now. There's really no point in being negative towards this team because the season is basically lost already (even if not mathematically). I reserve the anger and negative posting for the teams with a real chance, I get upset at poor efforts and wasted opportunities by those teams because there is something on the line. This team though, lets just enjoy the kids and what it means for the future.

I agree that Beck seems to be a lock for next year's squad. But he could also follow the same path that a lot of young guys do with the Preds, they come up and look great because the staff just wants to see what they have and they play to their strengths, then during the offseason the coaches want to refine their game, they give them weaknesses to work on and some other things to think about. So a lot of guys (Klein, Wilson, Blum, Ellis...) will take a step back while they work on getting their all-around game up to par. Then you hope they put it all together and become the player that we thought they could be (Klein, Wilson).

Watson probably starts in Milwaukee again but gets the first callup.

A lot depends on this summer, some guys WILL be traded as teams with a lot of salary will be looking to deal some of it away.

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04-10-2013, 06:13 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
Right, i'm trying to stay positive now. There's really no point in being negative towards this team because the season is basically lost already (even if not mathematically). I reserve the anger and negative posting for the teams with a real chance, I get upset at poor efforts and wasted opportunities by those teams because there is something on the line. This team though, lets just enjoy the kids and what it means for the future.

I agree that Beck seems to be a lock for next year's squad. But he could also follow the same path that a lot of young guys do with the Preds, they come up and look great because the staff just wants to see what they have and they play to their strengths, then during the offseason the coaches want to refine their game, they give them weaknesses to work on and some other things to think about. So a lot of guys (Klein, Wilson, Blum, Ellis...) will take a step back while they work on getting their all-around game up to par. Then you hope they put it all together and become the player that we thought they could be (Klein, Wilson).

Watson probably starts in Milwaukee again but gets the first callup.

A lot depends on this summer, some guys WILL be traded as teams with a lot of salary will be looking to deal some of it away.
Doesn't it bother you that guys come up, look good and then the coaches refine their games and they take a huge leap backwards in their development, only to be in the doghouse for a few years and then finally break out of it? I know it drives me crazy. Is that really development? If the players are succeeding, play to their strengths and have them work on their game but don't make them think too much, when you do, the instinct is out of the game for them and they're thinking on the ice which kills their productivity. I think we try to mold guys into something they're not as opposed to playing to their strengths and letting them be the players we drafted. Some shaping is always needed but too much and you have a roster full of the same player.

I look at Toews and Kane as the perfect example. Both totally different types of players but always allowed to play their games. Kane finally matured and is tearing it up this year. He was always good but he took it to another level. Did they take the creativity out of his game, nope, they let him be who he is. It helps to have other great players on that team as well but they are who they are. What are we going to do with Forsberg when we get him? I'm terrified the staff is going to royally ******* him up.

We've killed Smith's confidence this year. Is Beck going to follow suit or is he going to be another Bourque? I just hate that we take so freaking long to develop players and we don't even develop them that well up front. On the blue line sure but up front, not so much.

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04-10-2013, 06:28 PM
  #132
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I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, just that this is the approach that our staff takes. And that's why i'm not 100% confident that Beck will be a lock next season, there's a good chance that Trotz gives him things to work on and he will lose focus and/or confidence and struggle for a while to get back.

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04-10-2013, 06:58 PM
  #133
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I have really liked what Beck looks like. As a previous poster said, your staff lets them "show what they've got"but then the following season make changes to fit "the system".
This seems to not only take away from offensive freedom, but can also land them in the doghouse.
Bourque has not experienced it, I think because he keeps his game simple. He was not expected to be an offensive player and has been a great asset for the Preds.
Beck has had some real gaffs in the D zone, (as have many of the vets), but that is usually where the staff will start trying to reign him in the next year, take away ice time and confidence.
I hope Beck does not go that direction because he looks good! He is creative, sees the ice well and is a big body, hard to knock off the puck.

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04-10-2013, 08:25 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by AtrickhayOrnqvistpay View Post
It's sad to see honestly because even when we were an expansion team and sucked horribly, they brought it every night. This team couldn't even bring a bag lunch without the bag ripping and all its contents falling on the ground and getting eaten by a bunch of hungrier ants.
I agree with your entire post, it was firing me up and getting me pissed...then this line came and I almost spit my water all over my keyboard. SO TRUE. And so funny. Well done!

P.S. You should e-mail that post to the owners or the team's president. For real.


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04-10-2013, 08:29 PM
  #135
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Personally, I think our offense will work itself out will a healthy Wilson, Horns, Fisher, etc... I think our biggest need this off season will be a legit D-man.
Those players were healthy at the beginning of the season and we still sucked. They help, but they are not the answer.

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04-10-2013, 08:37 PM
  #136
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Those players were healthy at the beginning of the season and we still sucked. They help, but they are not the answer.
Actually we were as high as 4th in the standings before the injuries started hitting. That said, our biggest need and absolute must is a replacement for erat.

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04-10-2013, 09:09 PM
  #137
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Actually we were as high as 4th in the standings before the injuries started hitting. That said, our biggest need and absolute must is a replacement for erat.
Haven't we always been last in SOG and goals though?

It's not like we were running around owning people.

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04-10-2013, 09:29 PM
  #138
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Actually we were as high as 4th in the standings before the injuries started hitting. That said, our biggest need and absolute must is a replacement for erat.
Exactly- people conveniently forget about that in their doom and gloom posts. As I have posted elsewhere, I firmly believe we would be in the playoffs right now if we had had a healthy team all year- even in this trainwreck season, we are only 3 wins away from being in- THREE.....

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04-10-2013, 09:30 PM
  #139
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Haven't we always been last in SOG and goals though?

It's not like we were running around owning people.
We were definitely last in the first part of the season, but for about a 20 game stretch we were averaging over 3 goals a game, and were steadily moving up the GPG ranks. That all ended of course with all the forward injuries......

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04-10-2013, 09:59 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, just that this is the approach that our staff takes. And that's why i'm not 100% confident that Beck will be a lock next season, there's a good chance that Trotz gives him things to work on and he will lose focus and/or confidence and struggle for a while to get back.
And for what it's worth, wasn't trying to argue with you but you see my point. You're not 100% sure Beck is a lock because you feel he's going to lose his confidence for whatever reason and that's the staffs approach. This to me is a huge problem. If players break out and then struggle what's the problem there. The road to Nashville is through Milwaukee. These guys should know our system and be prepared for it. The fact that guys come in and succeed and then regress tells me we prepare them only so much and then we try to break them down to play "our way". Well if they're succeeding out of the box, why change it? Keep building on their success. Keep them moving forward.

To me, certain guys have come in and consistently moved forward. Others have bounced around the lineup. Remember Suter and his inconsistencies? What about Klein? People wanted Suter gone and we all know he and Trotz did not see eye to eye. Klein has finally become a solid second pairing guy after how many years? He always had it in him but why did it take so long to develop? Then we have Blum who looks like a train wreck or a solid guy depending on which part of the shift he's on. Ellis is not developing for us at all. Smith is a huge train wreck after such a promising start. Bourque has been the biggest surprise by far. Remember Erat years ago? He would take shifts off and finally got shipped to Milwaukee for the rest of the year. He came back and always played hard. Is that why he finally asked out? The rules were different from player to player? I know if I'm a player and see the way guys are benched or sat or given limited minutes I'd be a bit ticked off to be honest. Why are certain guys allowed to make the same mistakes over and over again yet others are ridden harder than they deserve? To me, the rules of the way the vets and the younger players are treated are different. Maybe Erat finally got fed up.

The fact that Erat isn't saying a word about why he wanted out is huge to me. I know Suter did not get along with Trotz and that was as big a factor as any as to why he left. I have heard through the grapevine that Erat was none too pleased with Trotz lately either. When your coach is driving away players, it may be time to look for a new coach because we can't keep losing good players.

And to be honest, I think this goes back to AK and Rads. I think the team plays hard as hell last year to be in the position we're in, we add some good pieces to the puzzle and then sit the guys that helped us get to where we were in the standings. Then AK and Rads go out and party. To me, Trotz and Poile should've sent them packing right then and there, actually pulled certain guys who got benched in favor of those two and apologize to them behind closed doors and say, we should've stuck with you guys, you were team players and we overlooked that. To me, this team has not looked the same since that incident and I think there's a lot of hurt feelings in that locker room. To me sitting Wilson in the playoffs over the last two years was a slap in the face for the kid and even though he responded this year, he's already 23 and finally showing the promise of why we drafted him so high. I don't really feel like waiting 4-5 years for Forsberg and whoever we draft this year to develop. There are plenty of guys who can come in to the league and develop. We have enough leadership to help these kids.

The one constant of the teams playing hard has always been Trotz. Well this team is not playing hard. Not one bit. Bye bye neck. It's time to go before we start losing other players because it's his way or no one else's way.

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04-10-2013, 10:02 PM
  #141
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We were definitely last in the first part of the season, but for about a 20 game stretch we were averaging over 3 goals a game, and were steadily moving up the GPG ranks. That all ended of course with all the forward injuries......
so what are you trying to sale? that we were a fringe playoff team when healthy? whoop dee do.. our offense was below average, defense was inconsistent, pekka laid too many eggs.. this team healthy is at best a one and done playoff team if we even make the playoffs. poile better be making moves in the offseason.

injuries were not what did this team in. it was the effort and discipline that did this team in.

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04-10-2013, 10:03 PM
  #142
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And while I get injuries hurt us, other teams like Ottawa as someone pointed out, have risen to the challenge. You lose your all world goalie, Norris trophy winning defenseman and you're number 1 center and you're still in the playoff hunt? Amazing isn't it. Our guys weren't producing except for Wilson so to say injuries are to blame is wrong. How about poor performance, lack of effort, lack of desire. I get that injuries happen but that was not the reason the season went in the crapper, it had everything to do with guys not performing and the staff not figuring out a way to get them going. It's on both at the end of the day but we've seen this team struggle offensively before and no changes happen but when lines are clicking, they are broken up for whatever reason. I'm just over this crap.

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04-10-2013, 10:21 PM
  #143
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so what are you trying to sale? that we were a fringe playoff team when healthy? whoop dee do.. our offense was below average, defense was inconsistent, pekka laid too many eggs.. this team healthy is at best a one and done playoff team if we even make the playoffs. poile better be making moves in the offseason.

injuries were not what did this team in. it was the effort and discipline that did this team in.
Did not say any of that- I was simply answering the question he asked about being last in GPG all year

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04-10-2013, 10:46 PM
  #144
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And while I get injuries hurt us, other teams like Ottawa as someone pointed out, have risen to the challenge. You lose your all world goalie, Norris trophy winning defenseman and you're number 1 center and you're still in the playoff hunt? Amazing isn't it. Our guys weren't producing except for Wilson so to say injuries are to blame is wrong. How about poor performance, lack of effort, lack of desire. I get that injuries happen but that was not the reason the season went in the crapper, it had everything to do with guys not performing and the staff not figuring out a way to get them going. It's on both at the end of the day but we've seen this team struggle offensively before and no changes happen but when lines are clicking, they are broken up for whatever reason. I'm just over this crap.
Mostly agree. The injuries hurt, but there was more to it than that. I didn't sense the hard nosed culture and resiliency we usually show.

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04-10-2013, 11:16 PM
  #145
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a lot of folks are forgetting that this is simply HALF a season. We have been as low as 11th or 12th at the midway point of an 82 game season and rallied to make the playoffs before. Had we had a full 82, and not had the devastating rash of injuries, I think we could have turned this barge around

think about it... for the first part of the season, we were tops in the league defensively but couldnt score for anything, and couldnt win in OT or a SO to save our lives.

then we started scoring, but for some reason right at that time the defense and goaltending went to pot, and instead of losing 1-0 in a shootout we were losing 6-5 and 7-4

I believe that if we had the benefit of 82 games, and had spread out the injuries a little more evenly rather than all hitting at once, we would have got the scoring and the solid defense happening at the same time and would have played much more like a top 5 team in the conference.


I would be tempted say that if we come and stay back healthy next year we should be back in contention with no problem... but Erat decided to bolt, and if we dont replace him this summer, we will need a major jump in production from a lot of youngsters to avoid a more permanent step back

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04-11-2013, 06:12 AM
  #146
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a lot of folks are forgetting that this is simply HALF a season. We have been as low as 11th or 12th at the midway point of an 82 game season and rallied to make the playoffs before. Had we had a full 82, and not had the devastating rash of injuries, I think we could have turned this barge around

think about it... for the first part of the season, we were tops in the league defensively but couldnt score for anything, and couldnt win in OT or a SO to save our lives.

then we started scoring, but for some reason right at that time the defense and goaltending went to pot, and instead of losing 1-0 in a shootout we were losing 6-5 and 7-4

I believe that if we had the benefit of 82 games, and had spread out the injuries a little more evenly rather than all hitting at once, we would have got the scoring and the solid defense happening at the same time and would have played much more like a top 5 team in the conference.


I would be tempted say that if we come and stay back healthy next year we should be back in contention with no problem... but Erat decided to bolt, and if we dont replace him this summer, we will need a major jump in production from a lot of youngsters to avoid a more permanent step back
While I understand all your points, it doesn't matter if it were half a season. Other teams dealt with the same thing. Everyone knew going in it was a 48 game spring to the finish. The team was not ready to play. We talk about righting the ship and we go through this every year. How about getting out of port right the first time and sailing well the entire season? Sure, teams go through ups and downs but good teams come out, play hard and adjust as they go. Saying if we had another 34 games everything would be all right is pointless. We didn't have another 34 games. The players knew this. The staff knew this. Injuries, while they have hampered us, is just an excuse. Like I said in another post, guys weren't producing before they went down except for Wilson and Bourque.

If the compete level doesn't come back next year, we are in trouble. We need to find an identity as a team and we have to ask ourselves why are guys wanting out. That is more troubling to me than anything.

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04-11-2013, 06:43 AM
  #147
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Fisher was actually playing his best of the season before he got hurt, 9 points in 8 games including 5 goals. So on a team that depended depth scoring you're taking out a full top line with Bourque, Wilson and Fisher. Not many teams can lose a top line and still play well. Then, it goes further when you take out Gaustad.

Let's look at the players that wanted out. Suter, wanted to be ner family. Erat was falling down the depth chart in favor of younger guys. Weber, simply didn't want out.

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