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Who is the most overrated player of all time?

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Old
04-10-2013, 11:43 PM
  #26
TheDevilMadeMe
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I wanted to merge this with the last thread on the same topic: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1212595

But that thread already reached the limit, so this one gets to stand on its own.

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Old
04-11-2013, 09:02 AM
  #27
Hardyvan123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Maurice Richard and Valery Kharlamov
These 2 do come to mind.

The thing though is that the more over rated a player is, in some peoples minds, then the better that player usually is overall.

No one is over rating Tie Domi for instance.

Bob Gainey is over rated IMO, especially when compared to Craig Ramsay.

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04-11-2013, 09:23 AM
  #28
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Scott Niedermayer is the most overrated player of all-time by the working hockey media.

The most overrated players of all-time among casual fans continue to be Forsberg, Bure, and Lindros. Cam Neely is up there too.

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04-11-2013, 09:55 AM
  #29
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Kharlamov is only overrated when people call him "the best Russian player of all time," which he wasn't. Other than that, he was pretty good

The most overrated player IMO is Mark Messier. That leadership award is a joke.

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04-11-2013, 10:05 AM
  #30
Uno Bench
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Three players, Gretzky, M. Lemieux and Crosby. Whit Messier just outside of the top three..

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04-11-2013, 10:05 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
Bure
Im no Bure fan, but I`m intrested in hearing how he is overratred.Usually people call him "just a floater" like that somehow makes him no useful for his team, even though he scored 60 goals.Oh and the most overrated players of all time are Datsyuk and Forsberg.

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04-11-2013, 10:12 AM
  #32
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Defensive forwards are the most overrated.
Offensive defensemen are the most underrated.

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04-11-2013, 10:15 AM
  #33
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saku11 View Post
Im no Bure fan, but I`m intrested in hearing how he is overratred.Usually people call him "just a floater" like that somehow makes him no useful for his team, even though he scored 60 goals.Oh and the most overrated players of all time are Datsyuk and Forsberg.
On the main board, a lot of people seem to think that Bure was a better player than Alexander Ovechkin, which is absurd.

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04-11-2013, 10:24 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Defensive forwards are the most overrated.
.
this can't be emphasized enough

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04-11-2013, 10:43 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
The Vezina goes to the top goalie in the league. Brodeur won it 4 times. Therefore, he was the best goalie in the league in 2003, 2004, 2007, and 2008.
People who think Brodeur is over-rated don't believe that he was the best goalie in those seasons, and believe that the flawed Vezina voting process is tied into his over-ratedness - that the defensive system of the team he played for inflated his numbers, and that the voters bought into those inflated numbers.

He sure as hell wasn't the best goalie in the league in 2006-07, for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
Scott Niedermayer is the most overrated player of all-time by the working hockey media.
Yup.

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Old
04-11-2013, 10:45 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Maurice Richard and Valery Kharlamov
Richard? Are you serious?

He's only the 2nd best RWer not named Gordie Howe to ever play the game....and if he hadn't hurt himself or got suspended because of his passion he displayed, who knows where he'd be overall.....he definitely dominated during his era.

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04-11-2013, 10:47 AM
  #37
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this can't be emphasized enough
I'll take a team of Bob Gaineys over a team of Paul Coffeys any day of the week.

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Old
04-11-2013, 10:49 AM
  #38
Killion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Defensive forwards are the most overrated.
Offensive defensemen are the most underrated.
and...

Some Offensive Forwards are overrated.
Defensive Defenceman are underrated.

nothing but unhappy mediums no matter how you cut it.

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Old
04-11-2013, 10:54 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
and...

Some Offensive Forwards are overrated.
Defensive Defenceman are underrated.

nothing but unhappy mediums no matter how you cut it.
I think the point of the thread is to generalize, Killion.

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04-11-2013, 11:17 AM
  #40
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Toews. Not even PPG.

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Old
04-11-2013, 11:33 AM
  #41
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
People who think Brodeur is over-rated don't believe that he was the best goalie in those seasons, and believe that the flawed Vezina voting process is tied into his over-ratedness - that the defensive system of the team he played for inflated his numbers, and that the voters bought into those inflated numbers.

He sure as hell wasn't the best goalie in the league in 2006-07, for example. [/B]



Yup.
Marginally better numbers than Luongo, while playing behind a significantly worse defense. Not that it affects his personal numbers that much, but he also got slightly less goal support than Luongo.

I realize that if you cherrypick numbers and focus on ES/PP/PK save percentage splits, while ignoring home road/splits, puck handling, and the higher scoring Eastern Conference, you can make Luongo look better.

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04-11-2013, 11:36 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Brodeur was easily the best goalie in the 2006-07 regular season. Slightly better numbers than Luongo, while playing behind a significantly worse defense. Not that it affects his personal numbers that much, but I believe he got less goal support than Luongo too.
I question the use of the word "easily," but yeah, that's the one season in which I thought he was the best goalie.

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04-11-2013, 11:40 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
I question the use of the word "easily," but yeah, that's the one season in which I thought he was the best goalie.
Heh, you caught me before I edited. I think that Brodeur and Luongo were definitely close, but Brodeur was a little better when you consider just how bad the team he had playing in front of him was. 2006-07 is the biggest reason why I shake my head when I see people rating Brian Rafalski as an all-time great.

2003 and 2004 were his questionable Vezinas, but both have an easy explanation even if you don't agree with them.

2003: Turco didn't play enough games
2004: Kiprusoff didn't play enough games, Luongo's team wasn't even close to making the playoffs

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04-11-2013, 11:55 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Heh, you caught me before I edited. I think that Brodeur and Luongo were definitely close, but Brodeur was a little better when you consider just how bad the team he had playing in front of him was. 2006-07 is the biggest reason why I shake my head when I see people rating Brian Rafalski as an all-time great.

2003 and 2004 were his questionable Vezinas, but both have an easy explanation even if you don't agree with them.

2003: Turco didn't play enough games
2004: Kiprusoff didn't play enough games, Luongo's team wasn't even close to making the playoffs
Funnily enough, I agree with all of that, but find 07-08 to be the questionable Vezina; I thought Nabokov should have won that year.

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04-11-2013, 11:59 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Heh, you caught me before I edited. I think that Brodeur and Luongo were definitely close, but Brodeur was a little better when you consider just how bad the team he had playing in front of him was. 2006-07 is the biggest reason why I shake my head when I see people rating Brian Rafalski as an all-time great.
Not to put more flames on the fire, but Luongo had the better even-strength save percentage and the better save percentage when facing the opposition's powerplay. The difference is that he did the latter so much more often than Brodeur that Brodeur's overall save percentage came out ahead. Don't get me wrong: Luongo had better defensemen, but his team put him in more disadvantageous situations to the point that the team argument doesn't hold enough weight to make it more than a coin-flip choice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
2003 and 2004 were his questionable Vezinas, but both have an easy explanation even if you don't agree with them.

2003: Turco didn't play enough games
2004: Kiprusoff didn't play enough games, Luongo's team wasn't even close to making the playoffs
I mean, I understand why he got them (and I don't disagree too much with 2008, but I thought Leclaire was the best in the league until his team turned into sellers at the deadline despite the playoffs being within reach), but it's the way they're used in arguments that makes me think the "overrated" word. I mean, I really like Corey Perry and all, but even I know he wasn't the best player in 2011 - Sidney Crosby was. Likewise, I know Turco was the best goalie in 2003, I know Pronger was the best defenseman in 2001 and 2007, I know Lemieux was the best player in 2001, etc.

Everyone who gets an award certainly deserves it on some level, otherwise no one would have recognized their season for any reason. But I'm also not going to pretend to NOT know why they have it when the binary difference between winning/not-winning the award is thrown in my face as an argument for why they're better than, say, Dominik Hasek or Eddie Shore. And that's really what the last overrated thread was about at the end.

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04-11-2013, 12:03 PM
  #46
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I wonder how easy it is to be objective about this issue instead of simply spin the negative about players on hated rivals that were successful

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04-11-2013, 12:21 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Marginally better numbers than Luongo, while playing behind a significantly worse defense. Not that it affects his personal numbers that much, but he also got slightly less goal support than Luongo.

I realize that if you cherrypick numbers and focus on ES/PP/PK save percentage splits, while ignoring home road/splits, puck handling, and the higher scoring Eastern Conference, you can make Luongo look better.
IIRC, Brodeur had a SV% of 0.921, with Luongo at 0.920.

N.J played conservatively, conceded the fewest powerplays to the opposition, and led the league in measured shot quality against. On the other hand, Brodeur's home scorer screwed him to the tune of ~0.01 in SV% at home, and ~0.005 overall. And he probably helped his team's possession game to some degree, on account of his puckhandling. We'll call it a wash.

Team factors (either positive or negative) don't seem to have been as relevant to Luongo.

All things considered, it was pretty damn close.

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04-11-2013, 12:41 PM
  #48
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On hfboards theres four players that take the cake here.

Bure
Fedorov
Lindros
Forsberg

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04-11-2013, 12:49 PM
  #49
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Crosby for sure! I'm surprised Ovi wasn't in the discussion with all the Ovi haters out there. I'm glad no one thinks his overrated

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04-11-2013, 12:51 PM
  #50
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Every star player gets overrated and mythicized to a certain degree.

But if I had to pick one i'd say OV for sure, due to his 65 goal season.

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