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Old
04-11-2013, 11:43 AM
  #101
5RingsAndABeer
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Originally Posted by vik352 View Post
Subban for Yakupov is just ridiculous...one will be considered for the norris...the other still hasn't proven anything...I think Tinordi/Beaulieu + Gallagher +1st/2nd is a lot closer in value
One is a 1st overall pick playing in his rookie season.

Yakupov has as much or more value than Subban right now. You probably haven't been around long to see the development of 1st overall picks if you think otherwise.

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04-11-2013, 11:45 AM
  #102
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thxs

Funny thing is that they seem to also be acknowledging that his big persona is what also makes him a good player (see flair for dramatic and getting under opponents' skin).

Assets: Has outstanding skating ability and excels at rushing up ice with the puck. Can quarterback a power play and also initiate a lot of contact. Displays a flair for the dramatic. Shoots the puck with aplomb and also gets under opponents' skin. Is adept at playing a shutdown role.

I say his assets far outweighs his flaws
Fair statement. I agree.

I'd certainly take him on the Oilers. Just saying that (what I perceive as) the character issues he has lower his value, and because of it he isn't worth Yakupov- to me. Yak is pretty much exactly where Stamkos was in his first year. Wouldn't want to see him scoring 60 in a couple years on another team, while Subban is here clashing with Hall/Nuge/Ebs/Schultz/coaching staff/Joey Moss/whoever.

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04-11-2013, 11:46 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
One is a 1st overall pick playing in his rookie season.

Yakupov has as much or more value than Subban right now. You probably haven't been around long to see the development of 1st overall picks if you think otherwise.
The first draft I have been watching is the Daigle draft, and I believe Subban has much more value then Yakupov right now.

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04-11-2013, 11:57 AM
  #104
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IMO...Yakupov is overrated and won't turn out to be the offensive juggernaut Oilers fans think he'll become. I'd trade him now and get #1 overall value for him. But not to Montreal, his playing style doesn't fit on our team.

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04-11-2013, 11:59 AM
  #105
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Fair statement. I agree.

I'd certainly take him on the Oilers. Just saying that (what I perceive as) the character issues he has lower his value, and because of it he isn't worth Yakupov- to me. Yak is pretty much exactly where Stamkos was in his first year. Wouldn't want to see him scoring 60 in a couple years on another team, while Subban is here clashing with Hall/Nuge/Ebs/Schultz/coaching staff/Joey Moss/whoever.
It's possible Subban could be clashing with someone on the Habs, but like I have heard often, every teams in the league have players that dislike another player on the team. What's important is that they can get behind that when they get on the ice. Obviously, it's not a problem in Montreal, results can attest.

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04-11-2013, 12:06 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
One is a 1st overall pick playing in his rookie season.

Yakupov has as much or more value than Subban right now. You probably haven't been around long to see the development of 1st overall picks if you think otherwise.
Last ten years....

RNH, Taylor Hall, Patrick Kane, Erik Johnson, MA Fleury, Yakupov.

I would rather have PK Subban than six out of the last ten first overall picks. Might even want Subban over Tavares based on how Montreal's team is set up. So make that 7/10.

Yakupov is a good player, he's improving. Still hasn't scored 30 goals. Still hasn't played a whole season. Still hasn't played 20+ minutes a game.

Subban has proven to be a top-2 defenceman. Subban has proven to be elite both offensively and defensively. This year Subban is at the very least one of the top-5 defenceman in the league. Might even win the Norris!

You can only hope that Yakupov reaches that sort of potential.

Edmonton probably doesn't want to trade Yakupov right now because of his potential. That's fine, Habs surely don't want to trade Galchenyuk. But to post such poorly informed, nonsensical arguments like "Start with Price" "Start with Subban"? Goes to show the quality of some posters opinion and perspective. Let's hope this thread gets locked.

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04-11-2013, 12:44 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Last ten years....

RNH, Taylor Hall, Patrick Kane, Erik Johnson, MA Fleury, Yakupov.

I would rather have PK Subban than six out of the last ten first overall picks. Might even want Subban over Tavares based on how Montreal's team is set up. So make that 7/10.

Yakupov is a good player, he's improving. Still hasn't scored 30 goals. Still hasn't played a whole season. Still hasn't played 20+ minutes a game.

Subban has proven to be a top-2 defenceman. Subban has proven to be elite both offensively and defensively. This year Subban is at the very least one of the top-5 defenceman in the league. Might even win the Norris!

You can only hope that Yakupov reaches that sort of potential.

Edmonton probably doesn't want to trade Yakupov right now because of his potential. That's fine, Habs surely don't want to trade Galchenyuk. But to post such poorly informed, nonsensical arguments like "Start with Price" "Start with Subban"? Goes to show the quality of some posters opinion and perspective. Let's hope this thread gets locked.
Heh..."wow" is about all I can say to rather having Subban than 7/10 of the top picks.

We're only a few months removed from the "Subban isn't worth $4-5 mil. If he wants that, trade him. Edmonton needs defense, maybe we can get Yakupov???"

Why the thread lock request? That is the worst thing about these boards- the need to lock a thread up every 15 minutes.


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Old
04-11-2013, 12:58 PM
  #108
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They could always trade us Price instead
Maybe we could do some kind of blockbuster based around Price and Plekanec for Yakupov and RNH?

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04-11-2013, 12:59 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth View Post
We're only a few months removed from the "Subban isn't worth $4-5 mil. If he wants that, trade him. Edmonton needs defense, maybe we can get Yakupov???"
He's obviously worth at the very least that much and I don't remember habs fan saying Habs should trade him for Yakupov. Also, Subban has progressed since last year, wouldn't you say so?

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04-11-2013, 01:08 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth View Post
Heh..."wow" is about all I can say to rather having Subban than 7/10 of the top picks.

We're only a few months removed from the "Subban isn't worth $4-5 mil. If he wants that, trade him. Edmonton needs defense, maybe we can get Yakupov???"

Why the thread lock request? That is the worst thing about these boards- the need to lock a thread up every 15 minutes.
Subban wasn't worth 4-5mil when he'd only had two good seasons. Dealing bridge contracts is a safe management decision, something just about everyone was pushing for. A great season and a potential Norris trophy nomination raises his value a little bit for his next contract.

If Subban continues to play like he has this year I would honestly rather have Subban rather than Johnson, RNH, Hall, Kane, Fleury or Yakupov. Tavares is on the list because of Montreal's need for defence and their center depth. Compare them each individually this year, it's not that wow.

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04-11-2013, 01:18 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Subban wasn't worth 4-5mil when he'd only had two good seasons. Dealing bridge contracts is a safe management decision, something just about everyone was pushing for. A great season and a potential Norris trophy nomination raises his value a little bit for his next contract.

If Subban continues to play like he has this year I would honestly rather have Subban rather than Johnson, RNH, Hall, Kane, Fleury or Yakupov. Tavares is on the list because of Montreal's need for defence and their center depth. Compare them each individually this year, it's not that wow.
I'd rather have Tavares and possibly Kane (winger). Hall is really close but I agree with the rest.

also, apologies for being part of turning this into another PK thread.

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04-11-2013, 01:18 PM
  #112
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Bwahahahahahaha! If Gagner is worth that much and is that good, yet you have 5 supposed better pieces, why exactly isn't your team running away with the season.

Beaulieu is a solid young future top pairing d man
Kristo has top 6 potential
1st rounder this year Ina deep draft.

I realize that probably doesn't get us Yak, but it is certainly >>>>>>>> Gagner
You expect one average prospect (Kristo), one good prospect (Beaulieu) and a late first to get any of our 4 potential star players? Give your head a shake. You give these guys absolute upside, but Kristo might not even end up a permanent NHL'er and Beaulieu isn't guaranteed to be a top pair guy, although he is very good.

I understand that you probably haven't watched the Oilers all year, but Gagner has been very, very good. Our second best player in fact. The upside of RNH, Schultz and Yak are way higher, and Ebs has had a bad season. That sir, is why he is worth less than those other 5 guys. That doesn't mean he has no value either.

And we aren't running away with the season for the same reason your Habs weren't last year...we need more depth and more physicality. So get off your high horse.

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04-11-2013, 01:20 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Subban wasn't worth 4-5mil when he'd only had two good seasons. Dealing bridge contracts is a safe management decision, something just about everyone was pushing for. A great season and a potential Norris trophy nomination raises his value a little bit for his next contract.

If Subban continues to play like he has this year I would honestly rather have Subban rather than Johnson, RNH, Hall, Kane, Fleury or Yakupov. Tavares is on the list because of Montreal's need for defence and their center depth. Compare them each individually this year, it's not that wow.
Is that the same Kane and Tavares who are possible Hart nominees this year? I'll agree that Subban is better than Johnson and Fleury, and Yak and RNH its way too early to tell with, so if that's your choice fine, but Kane and Tavares? That's silly.

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Old
04-11-2013, 01:29 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by TGV View Post
He's obviously worth at the very least that much and I don't remember habs fan saying Habs should trade him for Yakupov. Also, Subban has progressed since last year, wouldn't you say so?
I'm pretty sure I remember both Habs and Oilers fans proposing Subban for Yakupov trades during the contract holdout- with a pretty even split on both sides for and against. But I could be wrong...if I'm alone there, I'll shut up.

I would agree he's progressed, yes, but I'd be leery to say how much. It has only been 33 games and he's had a healthy Markov.

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Old
04-11-2013, 01:34 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth View Post
I'm pretty sure I remember both Habs and Oilers fans proposing Subban for Yakupov trades during the contract holdout- with a pretty even split on both sides for and against. But I could be wrong...if I'm alone there, I'll shut up.

I would agree he's progressed, yes, but I'd be leery to say how much. It has only been 33 games and he's had a healthy Markov.
Subban plays with Gorges. I wasn't one of the Yakupov for Subban voices but I definitely heard it around.

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04-11-2013, 01:52 PM
  #116
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Subban plays with Gorges. I wasn't one of the Yakupov for Subban voices but I definitely heard it around.
He must play with Markov on the PP though, no? It looks like that is where the bulk of his points have come, and they are 2 of the top 3 in the league in PP TOI/G.

I hate the Norris. IMO Markov's the better defenseman on the Habs, let alone elsewhere in the league, but it's probably Subban's trophy to lose at the moment.

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04-11-2013, 02:02 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
You expect one average prospect (Kristo), one good prospect (Beaulieu) and a late first to get any of our 4 potential star players? Give your head a shake. You give these guys absolute upside, but Kristo might not even end up a permanent NHL'er and Beaulieu isn't guaranteed to be a top pair guy, although he is very good.

I understand that you probably haven't watched the Oilers all year, but Gagner has been very, very good. Our second best player in fact. The upside of RNH, Schultz and Yak are way higher, and Ebs has had a bad season. That sir, is why he is worth less than those other 5 guys. That doesn't mean he has no value either.

And we aren't running away with the season for the same reason your Habs weren't last year...we need more depth and more physicality. So get off your high horse.
Read both my posts....I realize it wouldn't get us one of your young four but IMHO that offer is a lot closer to Yak than Gagner is to it.

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04-11-2013, 02:42 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Last ten years....

RNH, Taylor Hall, Patrick Kane, Erik Johnson, MA Fleury, Yakupov.

I would rather have PK Subban than six out of the last ten first overall picks. Might even want Subban over Tavares based on how Montreal's team is set up. So make that 7/10.

Yakupov is a good player, he's improving. Still hasn't scored 30 goals. Still hasn't played a whole season. Still hasn't played 20+ minutes a game.

Subban has proven to be a top-2 defenceman. Subban has proven to be elite both offensively and defensively. This year Subban is at the very least one of the top-5 defenceman in the league. Might even win the Norris!

You can only hope that Yakupov reaches that sort of potential.

Edmonton probably doesn't want to trade Yakupov right now because of his potential. That's fine, Habs surely don't want to trade Galchenyuk. But to post such poorly informed, nonsensical arguments like "Start with Price" "Start with Subban"? Goes to show the quality of some posters opinion and perspective. Let's hope this thread gets locked.
I see where you're coming from, but I don't think you can simply list those players like that and say Subban is more valuable.

MAF is a goalie. Erik Johnson is a defenseman. They're more comparable to DiPietro and Phillips than they are to Yakupov.

Hall has broken out this year and likely will end up more valuable than Subban. RNH and Yakupov are too young to evaluate properly.

I'd say most people would take Patrick Kane over Subban.

Furthermore, my post wasn't about Yakupov vs Subban on the Habs. It was about Yakupov vs Subban in general. Saying that Subban is more useful to the Habs than Tavares is irrelevant. Tavares is clearly worth more than Subban in general.

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04-11-2013, 02:52 PM
  #119
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That might get you Gagner. Doesn't get you near Yakupov.
Is this an alternate universe Gagner, where he's putting up 70+ points consistency and is signed past next year?

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04-11-2013, 02:57 PM
  #120
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Maybe we could do some kind of blockbuster based around Price and Plekanec for Yakupov and RNH?
lol @ Price being traded...don't care how much MTL gets back...Price aint going anywhere

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04-11-2013, 03:01 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
One is a 1st overall pick playing in his rookie season.

Yakupov has as much or more value than Subban right now. You probably haven't been around long to see the development of 1st overall picks if you think otherwise.
Hate to break it to you, but Sudden's value is currently better than any of your big four. He is presently on a breakout pace, in fact out scoring all four of them based on points per games played. And as a defensemen whose value always supersede forwards. Rookie season or not, Subban's value is well beyond Yakupov's.

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04-11-2013, 03:23 PM
  #122
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Hate to break it to you, but Sudden's value is currently better than any of your big four. He is presently on a breakout pace, in fact out scoring all four of them based on points per games played. And as a defensemen whose value always supersede forwards. Rookie season or not, Subban's value is well beyond Yakupov's.
You are entitled to your opinion, wrong as it may be.

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04-11-2013, 03:35 PM
  #123
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I'm pretty certain he has a higher ceiling. Do you think Galchenyuk has "around the same" potential as Pacioretty? I'd hope you have higher expectations than that if you spent a 3rd overall pick on him. Could you live with him being on that level? Probably, but I think Galy has ppg potential, much like I think Yak has the potential to put up 40+ goals.

All that said, MP + this years first would get me thinking. MP straight up though? Not a chance.
I think Patches didnt even reach his ceiling yet, I think he could get 40 goals and 30 ish assists some day, So yeah it was pretty fair.

Oh and sorry about PatofQC.... The guy is a xenophobic maniac, don't base yourself on him to evaluate our fanbase.

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04-11-2013, 03:38 PM
  #124
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He must play with Markov on the PP though, no? It looks like that is where the bulk of his points have come, and they are 2 of the top 3 in the league in PP TOI/G.

I hate the Norris. IMO Markov's the better defenseman on the Habs, let alone elsewhere in the league, but it's probably Subban's trophy to lose at the moment.
I can tell RIGHT NOW that you havent watched the habs with this assessment There's 2 better Dmans(aside from the PP) right now on the habs (Diaz and P.K.) and at ES Emelin and Gorges are both pretty comparable to Markov

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04-11-2013, 04:10 PM
  #125
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the only player on the Oilers that comes close to having the same value as Subban is Hall.

while the Oilers have a plethora of good wingers - no.1 dmen aren't easy to come by.

not good trading partners.

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