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Jason Pominville Part II

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Old
04-10-2013, 02:47 PM
  #476
MuckOG
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All I'm saying is that if the Wild felt he was as talented as some of you are making him out to be, he wouldn't have been part of this trade. Not saying that the Wild didn't value him, but they didn't value him as much as Brodin, Coyle, Zucker, Granlund or Dumba.

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04-10-2013, 02:48 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by tomgilbertfan View Post
God I hope larsson doesn't become the next leddy, in terms of people never Being able to drop it. Not saying we shouldn't talk about it now, but I'm saying in a few years if this is still going on, ugh.
That's exactly what I was thinking last night. Leddy skated circles around the team and we gave him up for nothing. I don't think Pominville's going to be anywhere near as bad as Barker was, but we could be seeing Larsson not necessarily dominate but play at a high level for years and feel that same regret.

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04-10-2013, 02:49 PM
  #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
All I'm saying is that if the Wild felt he was as talented as some of you are making him out to be, he wouldn't have been part of this trade. Not saying that the Wild didn't value him, but they didn't value him as much as Brodin, Coyle, Zucker, Granlund or Dumba.
Obviously, otherwise he wouldn't be traded. But the Wild front office is not perfect.

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04-10-2013, 02:51 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
That's exactly what I was thinking last night. Leddy skated circles around the team and we gave him up for nothing. I don't think Pominville's going to be anywhere near as bad as Barker was, but we could be seeing Larsson not necessarily dominate but play at a high level for years and feel that same regret.
Yeah, I mean I want larsson to succeed but I also don't want this to look horrible for us.

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04-10-2013, 02:52 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Obviously, otherwise he wouldn't be traded. But the Wild front office is not perfect.
No, but considering their track record of acquiring young talent over the past few years, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Obviously mistakes are going to be made like Leddy...but I'd rather have the bold and aggressive owner/gm combination that we currently have over what we used to have.

If anything, they sure make it interesting for us the fans.

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04-10-2013, 02:59 PM
  #481
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I guess. But I also see them draft guys like Phillips and Bulmer and we give them a free pass because those were extra draft picks acquired in trades.

We give him a ton of credit, but let's look back at his first few drafts:

2009
Leddy - traded
Hackett - traded
Foucault - bust
Fallstrom - traded
Kuemper - great pick
Sallinen - bust
Haula - great pick
Hamburg - bust

2010
Granlund - TBD
Bulmer - looking like a bust
Larsson - traded
Zucker - great pick
Gustafsson - great pick
McKinlay - bust

2011
Brodin - great pick
Phillips - sorry, I don't see it
Lucia - TBD
Seeler - meh
Michalek - bust
Graovac - TBD, having a great year though

Still really damn early, but he's moved a lot of good players and missed on a lot of others.

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04-10-2013, 02:59 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Foxlockbox View Post
I'd say that MG has more hockey IQ than either Koivu or Bouchard ever had.
Wow. You are so underrating Saku Koivu it is hilarious. If MiG has anywhere near as good a career or becomes anywhere near the player Saku Koivu was it would be very surprising IMO.

Almost every time I log on here I'm amazed at how posters so extremely over-rate Wild prospects.

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04-10-2013, 03:07 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Still really damn early, but he's moved a lot of good players and missed on a lot of others.
No team hits on them all...And I would never categorize a later round pick who doesn't make it a "bust". IMO, the "bust" label is reserved for players picked near the top of the draft that failed to live up to their high projection.

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04-10-2013, 03:21 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
Wow. You are so underrating Saku Koivu it is hilarious. If MiG has anywhere near as good a career or becomes anywhere near the player Saku Koivu was it would be very surprising IMO.

Almost every time I log on here I'm amazed at how posters so extremely over-rate Wild prospects.
Maybe I can admit I'm not expert on Saku Koivu at the height of his career, I barely was born then.

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04-10-2013, 03:21 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
No team hits on them all...And I would never categorize a later round pick who doesn't make it a "bust". IMO, the "bust" label is reserved for players picked near the top of the draft that failed to live up to their high projection.
I was just going to say this. 6th and 7th rounders who don't make it aren't busts. Guys like Haula and Graovac who actually have a chance are the exception, not the rule.

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04-10-2013, 03:22 PM
  #486
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Let's not get too carried away with Graovac, Phillips looked excellent his last year of juniors and not so much in the AHL.

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04-10-2013, 03:27 PM
  #487
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That's why I only said he's a guy who has a chance. He got a contract and is trending in the right direction. He has to be considered a good 7th round pick.

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04-10-2013, 03:33 PM
  #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxlockbox View Post
Maybe I can admit I'm not expert on Saku Koivu at the height of his career, I barely was born then.
Damn, I feel old.....

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Originally Posted by Jaykay View Post
That's why I only said he's a guy who has a chance. He got a contract and is trending in the right direction. He has to be considered a good 7th round pick.
Exactly...I've never done the research, but my guess is that majority of 7th round selections never even get a contract.

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04-10-2013, 03:38 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I guess. But I also see them draft guys like Phillips and Bulmer and we give them a free pass because those were extra draft picks acquired in trades.

We give him a ton of credit, but let's look back at his first few drafts:

2009
Leddy - traded
Hackett - traded
Foucault - bust
Fallstrom - traded
Kuemper - great pick
Sallinen - bust
Haula - great pick
Hamburg - bust

2010
Granlund - TBD
Bulmer - looking like a bust
Larsson - traded
Zucker - great pick
Gustafsson - great pick
McKinlay - bust

2011
Brodin - great pick
Phillips - sorry, I don't see it
Lucia - TBD
Seeler - meh
Michalek - bust
Graovac - TBD, having a great year though

Still really damn early, but he's moved a lot of good players and missed on a lot of others.
It sounds like you are counting traded prospects as a negative. It's the exact opposite. If you trade a player, that means there is value in them.

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04-10-2013, 03:47 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
It sounds like you are counting traded prospects as a negative. It's the exact opposite. If you trade a player, that means there is value in them.
It's neither positive nor negative. It's precisely as valuable as the assets you get back.

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04-10-2013, 04:10 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
Wow. You are so underrating Saku Koivu it is hilarious. If MiG has anywhere near as good a career or becomes anywhere near the player Saku Koivu was it would be very surprising IMO.

Almost every time I log on here I'm amazed at how posters so extremely over-rate Wild prospects.
I get amazed with the finality with which obviously fickle people speak about kids who aren't old enough to buy beer without false identification.

Larsson seems to be a guaranteed hoss at the moment (which I agree with, every time I've seen him play there's consistent ruckus around the opponent's net that he's right in the middle of), while Phillips is completely dismissed/written off/derided despite getting the puck on net at a slightly lesser rate than Coyle and slightly better rate than Larsson (he's 5th on the team in shots on goal behind Zucker, Fontaine, McIntyre and Kampfer). I get that it's frustrating not to see the points there, but were people expecting him to keep pace or outproduce Larsson despite being a year behind him, not playing with the same caliber linemates and being expected to focus on aspects of his game that don't necessarily show up in the box score?

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04-10-2013, 04:22 PM
  #492
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I'm worried about the prospects because we saw what happens when you don't draft and develop good players. Years of high payrolls and missing the playoffs.

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04-10-2013, 05:35 PM
  #493
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2010,
Granlund..good pick
Larsson..good pick
Zucker..good pick
Bulmer..good pick
Gusta..good pick

2011,
Brodin..good pick
Phillips.good pick
Lucia..good pick
Graovac..good pick

The other guys i havent watched enough to FAIRLY evaluate--I will not simply go off a stat sheet to determine my opinion.

WAY too early to consider any of these guts busts. I personally like alot of these guys alot. Some of further along for sure based on their experiences before turning pro.

Too many posters havent seen enough of these guys like 'Averman" said, but want to sound like experts and come on here and label guys--not cool.

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04-11-2013, 01:41 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I'm worried about the prospects because we saw what happens when you don't draft and develop good players. Years of high payrolls and missing the playoffs.
It just seems strange to see people lecture the Wild on patience at the highest level of the organization when they're unable/unwilling to practice it with the youngsters (the guys with the biggest actual claim to needing it).

The one big strength of Fletcher's regime has been their ability to draft and develop, so I don't quite understand that worry. What happens when he decides to use them as capital in trades seems like a more legitimate concern.

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04-11-2013, 02:16 PM
  #495
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The 2010 2nd round is precisely why you can't give too much credit (or disdain) to drafting results. The scouting staff everybody raves about about right now must have had Bulmer ranked ahead of BOTH Larsson and Zucker. Think they really knew everything? No way. Nobody does. It's a crapshoot.

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04-11-2013, 06:15 PM
  #496
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I wonder if CF gets canned if we miss the playoffs despite shortcutting our rebuild again (ala Leddy) and losing those picks and prospects.

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04-11-2013, 06:34 PM
  #497
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The 2010 2nd round is precisely why you can't give too much credit (or disdain) to drafting results. The scouting staff everybody raves about about right now must have had Bulmer ranked ahead of BOTH Larsson and Zucker. Think they really knew everything? No way. Nobody does. It's a crapshoot.
I still give him credit for trading up to land Zucker. Larsson, can't say I can give him much credit, he was a borderline 1st rounder by most reputable scouting services and the guy I wanted at 39, selecting him at 56 shouldn't have been a tough decision. Still too early to decide on any of them though.

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I wonder if CF gets canned if we miss the playoffs despite shortcutting our rebuild again (ala Leddy) and losing those picks and prospects.
Think he's got another year to right the ship. Yeo on the other hand...

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04-11-2013, 07:45 PM
  #498
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Originally Posted by Loopy0ne View Post
I wonder if CF gets canned if we miss the playoffs despite shortcutting our rebuild again (ala Leddy) and losing those picks and prospects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Think he's got another year to right the ship. Yeo on the other hand...
I don't think Fletcher has anything to worry about. Yeo should be ok as well.

IMO, Fletcher has done a very good job putting this team in the position it is. The Wild are definitely moving in the right direction. It's kinda funny how we, the fans, are continually preaching "patience", but then we are quick to want to fire the coaches and gm's when they don't deliver the immediate results and are quick to label prospects "busts" when they aren't hot right out of the gate..

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04-11-2013, 07:47 PM
  #499
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Fletcher is fine.

I think there is a very slight chance Yeo gets canned after the season. That chance increases greatly if we miss the playoffs.

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04-11-2013, 07:53 PM
  #500
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Fairly certain, even if we miss the playoffs, Yeo is back just due to the circumstances of the season.

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