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Major AHL Shakeup? Abbotsford to NY, Peoria to Abbotsford, STL affiliates w/ Chicago?

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04-06-2013, 06:31 PM
  #101
tank44
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Originally Posted by HansH View Post
. And if the Suns wanted to given them a lease, the Canucks could even put their AHL team into Phoenix whether there's a team in Glendale next year or not, if we just want to spin fanciful "possibilities".
HA! The Canucks could help the NHL by having their AHL team play in downtown Phoenix at the US Airways Arena where the Suns play which may get more fanfare than the Coyotes in Glendale.

One franchise roulette possibility:
Abotsford: AHL (Cgy) - AHL (Van)
Peoria: AHL to ECHL
Salt Lake City: ECHL to AHL (Cgy)

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04-06-2013, 06:56 PM
  #102
HansH
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Originally Posted by tank44 View Post
One franchise roulette possibility:
Abotsford: AHL (Cgy) - AHL (Van)
Peoria: AHL to ECHL
Salt Lake City: ECHL to AHL (Cgy)
Hm, hadn't thought about that. If I recall correctly, the ECHL team is currently actually owned by West Valley City, where they play. Calgary's MO seems to be "find local suckers to run the team and give them half 'ownership' of the franchise and then ignore the business of the team completely," and I can't quite see the City being eager to take that higher financial risk of taking on this specific tenant under those specific terms. If Calgary were more hands-on owners at the AHL level, it might be a possibility, but color me not that sold on this particular set of dominos... At least not this current Silly Season,

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04-06-2013, 09:25 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tank44 View Post
HA! The Canucks could help the NHL by having their AHL team play in downtown Phoenix at the US Airways Arena where the Suns play which may get more fanfare than the Coyotes in Glendale.

One franchise roulette possibility:
Abotsford: AHL (Cgy) - AHL (Van)
Peoria: AHL to ECHL
Salt Lake City: ECHL to AHL (Cgy)
Canucks haven't yet bought the Peoria franchise, but no way will u see SLC (actually WVC) back in the A, when the Grizzlies are the other option, Tank, THAT'S WHY THEIR ownership sold its franchise to Cleveland and returned to the E, ALSO DOUBTFUL you'd see US Airways Center being a hockey tenant, it only became that way when the Jets were sold

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04-07-2013, 01:17 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
Canucks haven't yet bought the Peoria franchise, but no way will u see SLC (actually WVC) back in the A, when the Grizzlies are the other option, Tank, THAT'S WHY THEIR ownership sold its franchise to Cleveland and returned to the E, ALSO DOUBTFUL you'd see US Airways Center being a hockey tenant, it only became that way when the Jets were sold
Grizzlies did not "return" to the E, they joined the E but I doubt you will see them in the A again as they do not have the deep pockets. Also, why would Calgary move their franchise when they got the suckers in Abbotsford to give them all that money??


Last edited by Tommy Hawk: 04-13-2013 at 01:25 PM.
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04-07-2013, 01:34 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Since death of Bill Wirtz the Wolves/Hawks rivalry off ice has died out and the Wolves mean very little to Hawks now as a threat. Rocky simply doesn't waste his time with such petty things

The reason a partnership now would never work is because the Wolves have a history of screwing player development up because there #1 goal is to compete for AHL title not develop future NHL talent

Atlanta always had issues with Wolves screwing with there prospects by playing scrub career minor leaguers
Bouwmeester and Weiss played for the Wolves then went to the NHL. Braydon Coburn, Derek MacKenzie, Mike Weaver, Mark Hartigan, Brett Clark, etc. and many others went on to average NHL careers. Superstars? No but hey, 5 to 10 years in the NHL is nothing to sneeze at. It was more Atlanta screwing up their draft picks than the Wolves. Their prospects got plenty of ice time to show they sucked. That franchise was doomed when they hired Waddell.

And the reason Rocky doesn't worry is because he fields a team to win, not like his old man. And he is not petty like his old man and realizes all hockey in the area is good for the Blackhawks. When Rockford plays the Wolves about a third of the people there are Hawks fans.

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Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
Or VAN could temporarily move the Rivermen to PHX or SAC pending current tenants vacating. And if the AHL permits, move em to Rogers Arena to really stick it to CGY.
The thing about franchises is that they only need to be near an airport with excellent flight schedules. Half the NHL games are home games and the other half on the road so being close works for only 50% of the games. However, if you are in say Milwaukee, you are a 75 minute drive to O'Hare where you can get to most NHL cities within a 4 hour flight.

The are also a significant number of other moving parts as well such as the Houston or Adirondack or Connecticut situations. There are also usually two or three cities looking to get an AHL team. The AHL is always in this type of flux. franchises moving, affiliation s changing, etc. This is not a big deal either way but it is fun to watch.

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04-07-2013, 11:03 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by HansH View Post
I forget, is there even an ice plant in the Sacramento arena? Something makes me want to think I remember there isn't, but I'm not sure. And if the Suns wanted to given them a lease, the Canucks could even put their AHL team into Phoenix whether there's a team in Glendale next year or not, if we just want to spin fanciful "possibilities".
Return of the Phoenix Roadrunners?


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04-07-2013, 05:44 PM
  #107
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Hm, hadn't thought about that. If I recall correctly, the ECHL team is currently actually owned by West Valley City, where they play. Calgary's MO seems to be "find local suckers to run the team and give them half 'ownership' of the franchise and then ignore the business of the team completely," and I can't quite see the City being eager to take that higher financial risk of taking on this specific tenant under those specific terms. If Calgary were more hands-on owners at the AHL level, it might be a possibility, but color me not that sold on this particular set of dominos... At least not this current Silly Season,
Calgary's MO since the last lockout (2004) is to own their own AHL franchise, and have continually become more and more involved in it, no more so than now with Abbotsford. They want to own their AHL franchise, they've made that clear a number of times the past few years. I don't know what you're basing those assumptions on that they ignore their AHL franchise.

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04-07-2013, 05:54 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by old time hockey4 View Post
Calgary's MO since the last lockout (2004) is to own their own AHL franchise, and have continually become more and more involved in it, no more so than now with Abbotsford. They want to own their AHL franchise, they've made that clear a number of times the past few years. I don't know what you're basing those assumptions on that they ignore their AHL franchise.
Empirical observations of the business of minor-league hockey going back 13 years, including watching the AHL franchise (that they have CONSISTENTLY owned at least 50% of) struggle (in a business sense, not necessarily in an on-ice sense) from Saint John to dormancy to Omaha to Quad Cities to Abbotsford -- but yeah, that doesn't count for anything. Observing the way that a once-prosperous market in Quad Cities never recovered after the two year experiment with the Flames (and having numerous sources in that market make it clear that on the business side, the Flames were EXTREMELY hands-off -- which was my initial point). But again, I suppose that's just "assumptions".

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04-09-2013, 11:28 AM
  #109
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What to make of this

Quote:
Houston Aeros no more? Wild reportedly set to move AHL affiliate to Des Moines
By Travis Hugheson Apr 9 2013, 10:35a

The Minnesota Wild are reportedly set to move their AHL affiliate from Houston to Des Moines, Iowa, for the 2013-14 season, leaving America's fourth most-populous city without professional hockey for the first time in 20 years.

...

According to the Minnesota Star-Tribune, the Minnesota Wild are set to move their affiliate to Des Moines, Iowa, at some point in the next few weeks as talks about a new lease at Houston's Toyota Center have broken down. The Wild are the majority owners of the Aeros, so this isn't just about changing affiliates. It's about relocating the team.
http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2013/4/9...es-moines-wild

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04-09-2013, 11:36 AM
  #110
kdb209
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Well, there goes that insurmountable obstacle to the NHL in Houston ...

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04-09-2013, 12:02 PM
  #111
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Well, there goes that insurmountable obstacle to the NHL in Houston ...
well, yeah, but if the aeros are leaving because they cant get a lease they like with les alexander, why would any potential NHL owner get one?

unles les is interested in the NHL again, which we havnt heard since 2005. And he's apparently not that rich anymore.



as for iowa - good news. Criminally underserved market. For a midwest state surrounded by 'hockey country' in minnesota, illinois, and wisconsin, the fact that there is no AHL, ECHL, or even CHL teams is strange. The state and city are served by junior hockey (USHL), but it's time for a pro team.

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Last edited by danishh: 04-09-2013 at 12:14 PM.
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04-09-2013, 12:46 PM
  #112
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It sounds like Les Alexander wants more money from the Aeros. If they leave Houston THAT would be criminal. The AHL should do everything in it's power to stay in a market that gets close to 10,000 fans per game.

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04-09-2013, 02:36 PM
  #113
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It sounds like Les Alexander wants more money from the Aeros. If they leave Houston THAT would be criminal. The AHL should do everything in it's power to stay in a market that gets close to 10,000 fans per game.
actually, it sounds like kind of an atlanta situation: NBA owner figures they can make more money off concerts and other shows than from 41 games of a secondary tenant. Unless the aeros are willing to match alexander's projections on the replacement value of those 41 dates, they've gotta leave.

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04-09-2013, 02:50 PM
  #114
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actually, it sounds like kind of an atlanta situation: NBA owner figures they can make more money off concerts and other shows than from 41 games of a secondary tenant. Unless the aeros are willing to match alexander's projections on the replacement value of those 41 dates, they've gotta leave.
Under the terms of the Rocket's lease agreement with the Harris County Sports Authority they are required to offer the Aeros a "fair market value" and "commercially reasonable" lease.

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04-09-2013, 03:10 PM
  #115
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Under the terms of the Rocket's lease agreement with the Harris County Sports Authority they are required to offer the Aeros a "fair market value" and "commercially reasonable" lease.
and if fair market value >>> commercially reasonable (for the aeros)?

what then? That's what this situation sounds like.

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04-09-2013, 04:57 PM
  #116
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I've always thought that the Houston Aeros were a successful AHL team so I'm kind of surprised that they're possibly moving - is their affiliate Minnesota? I'd gather they'd move closer to them.

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04-09-2013, 06:47 PM
  #117
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I've always thought that the Houston Aeros were a successful AHL team so I'm kind of surprised that they're possibly moving - is their affiliate Minnesota? I'd gather they'd move closer to them.
The Wild own the majority of the franchise, as well as maintaining the affiliation. The move appears to be due to the landlord not wishing to offer them a lease that the Wild find acceptable, from what coverage is out there. So, tenant/landlord relationships much more than success of the team or market.

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04-10-2013, 12:05 PM
  #118
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With the Wisconsin Badgers moving to the Big Ten Conference, I wish someone would move an AHL team to Madison.

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04-10-2013, 03:37 PM
  #119
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Uh... what? The Big Ten creating a hockey conference isn't going to change the dynamic in Madison. An AHL team there would get absolutely squeezed out of existence by the Badgers in all likelihood.

But Houston losing a team, while not surprising given the rumors that the Wild were never happy bedfellows with Alexander, is quite unfortunate.

Going to be an interesting realignment, for the third or fourth year in a row, in the AHL.

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04-10-2013, 10:24 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Uh... what? The Big Ten creating a hockey conference isn't going to change the dynamic in Madison. An AHL team there would get absolutely squeezed out of existence by the Badgers in all likelihood.

But Houston losing a team, while not surprising given the rumors that the Wild were never happy bedfellows with Alexander, is quite unfortunate.

Going to be an interesting realignment, for the third or fourth year in a row, in the AHL.
how so?

at least the AHL got rid of that dreaded 7 and 8 team divisional alignment in each conference, NFS, that the NHL has been catering to w/ that 4 conference alignment.... at least we have 3 divisions of 5 balancing each conference at 15 teams each....

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04-11-2013, 12:29 AM
  #121
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SI_NHL 10:23pm via SI.com Minnesota Wild may move AHL affiliate to Sioux Falls on.si.com/12KyoCU






South Dakota? Also has connections to AHL Aeros. And a new 12k arena on the drawing board.

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04-11-2013, 12:34 PM
  #122
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how so?

at least the AHL got rid of that dreaded 7 and 8 team divisional alignment in each conference, NFS, that the NHL has been catering to w/ that 4 conference alignment.... at least we have 3 divisions of 5 balancing each conference at 15 teams each....
Basically just saying there'll be yet another realignment, which is becoming a perennial thing for the AHL as of late. The most logical realignment would probably just be as follows:

Des Moines/Sioux City joins the Midwest
Norfolk joins the South
Utica joins the East
New Abbotsford "stays" in the North

Or:

Des Moines/Sioux City joins the Midwest
New Abbotsford joins the "South"
Utica joins the North (or the East and Syracuse joins the North)
Charlotte joins the East

Or even:

Des Moines/Sioux City "stays" in the "South"
New Abbotsford joins the "South"
Charlotte joins the East
Syracuse and Utica join the North
Lake Erie joins the Midwest

Lots of options is what I'm saying.


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04-11-2013, 06:51 PM
  #123
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I just hope the likelyhood of increased attendnace in Abbotsford with a Canuck affiliate doesn't kill Loonie Toonie Dog and Brew nights. Decent sized hot dogs for a buck and Sleeman's Draught for $2. Can't beat that.

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04-11-2013, 06:53 PM
  #124
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I just hope the likelyhood of increased attendnace in Abbotsford with a Canuck affiliate doesn't kill Loonie Toonie Dog and Brew nights. Decent sized hot dogs for a buck and Sleeman's Draught for $2. Can't beat that.
maybe initially, but if the canucks succeed in convincing the fanbase that this is an acceptable alternate for those who cant afford or get canucks tickets, prices will skyrocket and promotions will stop.

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04-11-2013, 07:04 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Basically just saying there'll be yet another realignment, which is becoming a perennial thing for the AHL as of late. The most logical realignment would probably just be as follows:

Des Moines/Sioux City joins the Midwest
Norfolk joins the South
Utica joins the East
New Abbotsford "stays" in the North

Or:

Des Moines/Sioux City joins the Midwest
New Abbotsford joins the "South"
Utica joins the North (or the East and Syracuse joins the North)
Charlotte joins the East

Or even:

Des Moines/Sioux City "stays" in the "South"
New Abbotsford joins the "South"
Charlotte joins the East
Syracuse and Utica join the North
Lake Erie joins the Midwest

Lots of options is what I'm saying.
nope, you'd better check the divisions again, NFS, WHEN WE got rid of the 7 and 8 team 2 division alignment, wasn't Charlotte shifted West away from Norfolk, their "geographic" RIVAL, after the Checkers replaced Albany, they were both in the same division and Lowell transferred from the NE To the East under that format; Norfolk is already an Eastern Conference/East Division team

as it stands currently:

Houston is in the West/South, I don't see that changing much whether it's Sioux Falls (which btw, also has a NBDL team as does Des Moines), Charlotte is in that same division, w/ Texas, SA, & OKC;

I can see the HOU to either Dakota, to the midwest,

Abbotsford stays put regardless of whether it's the Heat under CGY, or Peoria);

Utica if it is approved (and that's not a given) doesn't exactly fit in any of the Eastern divisional alignment, and there's no way Syracuse is going to be convinced to switch divisions if they're already in the East division and they've never been convinced w/o Rochester joining them in any realignment, what you're not realizing is IF Utica does happen, that only creates a 6 team NY Division for less than a season once Adirondack becomes Lehigh Valley.

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