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Who is the most overrated player of all time?

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Old
04-11-2013, 01:06 PM
  #51
Hawkman
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Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
On hfboards theres four players that take the cake here. Bure Fedorov Lindros Forsberg
Forsberg can't be overrated, because King Forsberg is the greatest poster ever!

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04-11-2013, 01:56 PM
  #52
Dissonance
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think that Brodeur and Luongo were definitely close, but Brodeur was a little better when you consider just how bad the team he had playing in front of him was. 2006-07 is the biggest reason why I shake my head when I see people rating Brian Rafalski as an all-time great.
Out of curiosity, what made the 2006-07 Devils so bad?

At a glance, it looks to me like the roster wasn't all that different from the previous season (when they were a 101-point team with the league's 8th-best defense) or the following season (when they were a 99-point team with the league's 4th-best defense). But you know the Devils far better than I do.

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04-11-2013, 02:01 PM
  #53
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I'd say Phil Esposito wasn't as good as his numbers and in terms of HFBoards, Makarov's overrated in terms of his NHL career.

From what I've read, I'm surprised that Tim Horton is so high on the 70 best players poll

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04-11-2013, 02:36 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
People who think Brodeur is over-rated don't believe that he was the best goalie in those seasons, and believe that the flawed Vezina voting process is tied into his over-ratedness - that the defensive system of the team he played for inflated his numbers, and that the voters bought into those inflated numbers.

He sure as hell wasn't the best goalie in the league in 2006-07, for example.
Brodeur deserved the 2006-07 Vezina. Luongo had a great year as well and would have been deserving but unfortunately there can only be one winner.

I wasnt sold on 2002-03. Turco and Belfour were better. So was Kolzig and Gigeure, who got shafted in the voting imo. It seemed like the voters felt it was Brodeur's time for him to finally win since Hasek retired. Also the voters are probably hesitant to give it to the new guy like Turco because they dont want to see another Jim Carey.

He also deserved the Vezina in 2003-04 but it was a very weak year for goaltending. I still dont understand why he finished 2nd in voting and got the 2nd team AST in 2005-06...

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Old
04-11-2013, 02:36 PM
  #55
Ogie Goldthorpe
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Bobby Orr.

Although he's still probably the 3rd or 4th greatest player of all time... and the greatest defenseman.. most of his legacy was built during hockey's most watered down period.

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04-11-2013, 03:57 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe View Post
Bobby Orr.

Although he's still probably the 3rd or 4th greatest player of all time... and the greatest defenseman.. most of his legacy was built during hockey's most watered down period.
LOL! I was going to name Orr just for the sake of controversy but you beat me to it. I think there is a point there, though. If most people (it seems) pick Orr as the greatest ever, and if in fact he was not, (as it is highly arguable) then that DOES make him overrated.

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Old
04-11-2013, 04:39 PM
  #57
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M. Richard
Tretiak
Fedorov
Lindros
Niedermayer

are a few that come to mind for me.

This is keeping in mind that there's a big difference between "overrated" and "bad." That's why I don't get how the photos of Crosby with various awards is supposed to respond to the claim that he's overrated. Is it not possible that he's both very, very good and overrated? (I don't happen to think he is overrated; just using him as an example).

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04-11-2013, 04:46 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe View Post
Bobby Orr.

Although he's still probably the 3rd or 4th greatest player of all time... and the greatest defenseman.. most of his legacy was built during hockey's most watered down period.
You could say that Gretzky peaked in another "watered down" period, maybe not as much so as Orr but still.


I think Bobby Orr's performance against very strong teams (like the Habs of course) and best on best competitions (aka, the Canada cup vs. the Soviets) proves that he's well in the conversation for GOAT, or at the very least, fighting for 2nd against Howe/Mario behind Gretzky.

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Old
04-11-2013, 05:08 PM
  #59
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Don't want to start another thread on it alone, but does anyone have stats available for Orr's totals against the late '60s early 70's expansion teams as opposed to his stats against "original six" teams of the same period? This would tend to answer the question of whether much of Orr's legend was enhanced because of his feasting on the original weaker expansion teams as is claimed by many?

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Old
04-11-2013, 06:57 PM
  #60
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Steve Yzerman

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Old
04-11-2013, 06:59 PM
  #61
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Actually change that.

Scott Niedermayer is by far the most overrated player of all time.

At least in Canada.. do not know how he is viewed in the Stats but up here you have people always rating him in the top 10 d-man of all time because he won alot.

He's not even top 20 in my book

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Old
04-11-2013, 07:12 PM
  #62
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Old
04-11-2013, 09:49 PM
  #63
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Forsberg


Sakic was the Av I feared.

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Old
04-11-2013, 09:50 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
Steve Yzerman
Yep. Because everyone rated Yzerman so highly all his career in relation to his performance.

Such as the 1991 Canada Cup roster that did not include him. Even though in the previous two seasons he had finished third in NHL scoring, and his scoring total over those two seasons was 127-155-282. Add in the 1987-88 season, and he's up to 177-207-384 in 223. Only Gretzky and Lemieux with more points in the three-year span. Only Lemieux had more goals. Yzerman was also second in GPG, about as close to #1 Lemieux as he is to #3 Hull.

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Old
04-11-2013, 10:03 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
I'll take a team of Bob Gaineys over a team of Paul Coffeys any day of the week.
sure that's great but there is only 1 of each guy.

Most would add a Coffey rather than a Gainey to any set of 4 other players though.

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Old
04-11-2013, 10:58 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewFang View Post
Every star player gets overrated and mythicized to a certain degree.

But if I had to pick one i'd say OV for sure, due to his 65 goal season.
I don't think a lot of people judge Ovechkin based on that 65 goals season. It is part of the picture, but I have never heard anyone claiming that he is perennial 65-70 goal scorer. (Well, outside few nutjob fans, I haven't)

My pick are Bure and Forbserg. Also Crosby is severely overrated by his fans. He just happens to have a lot of over the top fans, so I am not sure what the general opinion on the main board about him is. But I have seen more than 20 guys claiming him to be top-10 player all-time. At this point.

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Old
04-11-2013, 11:52 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
I don't think a lot of people judge Ovechkin based on that 65 goals season. It is part of the picture, but I have never heard anyone claiming that he is perennial 65-70 goal scorer. (Well, outside few nutjob fans, I haven't)

My pick are Bure and Forbserg. Also Crosby is severely overrated by his fans. He just happens to have a lot of over the top fans, so I am not sure what the general opinion on the main board about him is. But I have seen more than 20 guys claiming him to be top-10 player all-time. At this point.
That's on the main boards and not here right?

I don't recall any regular poster here ever suggesting that he is a top 10 player right now.

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Old
04-12-2013, 12:00 AM
  #68
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Mark Messier, although more so by the American media and their 1994 love fest than anyone else

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Old
04-12-2013, 01:37 AM
  #69
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissonance View Post
Out of curiosity, what made the 2006-07 Devils so bad?

At a glance, it looks to me like the roster wasn't all that different from the previous season (when they were a 101-point team with the league's 8th-best defense) or the following season (when they were a 99-point team with the league's 4th-best defense). But you know the Devils far better than I do.
Honestly, none of those teams were all that good. Keep in mind that by 2005-06, they had lost every member of their blueline from the 2003 Cup win except for Brian Rafalski and Colin White, and replaced them with young players and journeymen.

The 2005-06 to 2007-08 period was basically a mini-rebuilding phase for the Devils, where Martin Brodeur basically kept them in playoffs (especially in 2006-07, which was the heart of the rebuild).

The 2005-06 team was the best, because they got career years from Gomez and Gionta that neither was able to come close to replicating, and Elias played out of his mind after coming back from Hepatitis (until crashing the following season).

By 2007-08, Paul Martin started to emerge as a legit #1 defenseman, something Rafalski had basically failed at becoming.

In 2008-09, Zach Parise exploded and Travis Zajac emerged as a legit top 6 pivot.

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Old
04-12-2013, 07:21 AM
  #70
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Outside of the HOH board my vote goes to Joe Nieuwendyk.

On HOH I think Gordie Howes offensive dominance is a bit overrated. But that might be just me.

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Old
04-12-2013, 07:46 AM
  #71
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At first, I'm going to say that I think players are rated right in general (exceptions possible), because if everyone agrees that someone is overrated, how can he be? (I'm aware that this is a little bit simplistic)

If I had to name a player, I would probably say Messier, but that's because usually I don't buy the "he is a leader"-argument. So that's more of a personal preference.

In general: I have never seen a place that talks as much about the "overratedness" of players as HF. Why is this such a topic on here? Why do we discuss people's perceptions of players instead of the players? I sincerely hope it's not some thinly veiled attempt by some people to show that they know the game better. In the sense of: "Most people think he is good, but he isn't and I know it better because I know the game better."

This not an accusation directed at the OP, it's just something I noticed on here a lot, but I'm willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

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Old
04-12-2013, 07:59 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluppe View Post
Outside of the HOH board my vote goes to Joe Nieuwendyk.

On HOH I think Gordie Howes offensive dominance is a bit overrated. But that might be just me.
Gordie Howe was top five in scoring for twenty consecutive seasons.

Name another player who came close to that.

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Old
04-12-2013, 08:02 AM
  #73
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Mats Sundin

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Old
04-12-2013, 08:04 AM
  #74
pdd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Honestly, none of those teams were all that good. Keep in mind that by 2005-06, they had lost every member of their blueline from the 2003 Cup win except for Brian Rafalski and Colin White, and replaced them with young players and journeymen.

The 2005-06 to 2007-08 period was basically a mini-rebuilding phase for the Devils, where Martin Brodeur basically kept them in playoffs (especially in 2006-07, which was the heart of the rebuild).

The 2005-06 team was the best, because they got career years from Gomez and Gionta that neither was able to come close to replicating, and Elias played out of his mind after coming back from Hepatitis (until crashing the following season).

By 2007-08, Paul Martin started to emerge as a legit #1 defenseman, something Rafalski had basically failed at becoming.

In 2008-09, Zach Parise exploded and Travis Zajac emerged as a legit top 6 pivot.
What's with the Rafalski hate? I thought he was pretty darn good - as a Devil. When he came to Detroit I was like "Yeah!"

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Old
04-12-2013, 08:34 AM
  #75
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Lidstrom
Sundin
Forsberg
Lundqvist

Do I see a pattern?

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