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Old
04-12-2013, 09:19 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
Glad to see the usual suspects out in full force with pitchfork's in hand.

Here's a possible reason:

Lucic is injured.I saw a replay on NBC Jersey game where he winced when his left shoulder was checked into the boards.

As a matter of fact,I'm guessing a lot of guys are nursing sore bones.

Carry on.....
Awwww. where can we send flowers? Should we run a telethon for these guys?

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04-12-2013, 09:20 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by chuckdobbins View Post
Has he even played in the last two months?

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04-12-2013, 09:32 AM
  #78
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I am a big fan of Lucic, however, if this type of play continues I would seriously consider moving him and his silly contract in the off season.

His value is still high as most people know what he can do when hes on and motivated. I think a change of scenery would re-boot Looch and also net the Bruins a really nice return.

I would look to move him to either Winnipeg for Evander Kane (obviously Bruins would have to sweeten the pot a tad)

Or to Calgary for one of their high draft picks. I'd prefer the Winnipeg scenario as Kane certainly fits the Bruins mold as a scoring Power Forward.

One last one I'd explore would be Colorado for O'reilly or Duchene

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04-12-2013, 09:33 AM
  #79
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Someone needs to talk to him. Someone needs to tell him to go back and do what he does best and stop trying to be a scorer. He needs to go out and put the fear of god back into other teams.
This is somewhat ironic. If he was more of a scorer people would have far far less of a problem right now, the only reason to get on him is because of that lack of goal scoring, either that or his lack of fighting.

He's hitting as much or more then usual, he's taking less shots, his shooting % is way down, he's making more passes and getting more helpers because of it. "But his hits aren't effective" is about as asinine a statement as the old "Phil Kessel's goals count less cause of who he scores against" argument we used to see.

As for the fighting aspect, his fighting took a drop when he became a top line player and his responsibilities changed. He isn't paid 4 mill a year to be some knucklehead who breaks his hands on the other teams 800k per year goon. He's paid to be a top line player who intimidates and makes plays and he's been doing that.

I've been saying it all year, if you want his goal production to increase you need to take him off of Krejci's line. There's a reason he gels with Seguin, Seguin is a North/South player who likes to get the puck on net, lots of opportunity for Lucic to clean up out front or use his size to find space near the net and bang in a rebound.

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04-12-2013, 09:37 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Awwww. where can we send flowers? Should we run a telethon for these guys?
Lol!

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04-12-2013, 09:53 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
This is somewhat ironic. If he was more of a scorer people would have far far less of a problem right now, the only reason to get on him is because of that lack of goal scoring, either that or his lack of fighting.

He's hitting as much or more then usual, he's taking less shots, his shooting % is way down, he's making more passes and getting more helpers because of it. "But his hits aren't effective" is about as asinine a statement as the old "Phil Kessel's goals count less cause of who he scores against" argument we used to see.

As for the fighting aspect, his fighting took a drop when he became a top line player and his responsibilities changed. He isn't paid 4 mill a year to be some knucklehead who breaks his hands on the other teams 800k per year goon. He's paid to be a top line player who intimidates and makes plays and he's been doing that.

I've been saying it all year, if you want his goal production to increase you need to take him off of Krejci's line. There's a reason he gels with Seguin, Seguin is a North/South player who likes to get the puck on net, lots of opportunity for Lucic to clean up out front or use his size to find space near the net and bang in a rebound.
Kaoz, I don't fully disagree with your post:

I think most fans know he isn't going to fight at the same clip that he did in the past. It just isn't his role on the team right now. His hit numbers are there, and I don't even know what to say about an effective hit vs. a non-effective hit...not sure how you define that, but the eyeball test is very revealing with this guy right now.

Whether you think he is hitting enough or not, or fighting enough or not, he just isn't impacting the game the way that he is capable of. That is the bottom line.

I really like to use that Washington game after he was called out by Claude as an example of what Lucic's game should be. My memory isn't perfectly clear, but I don't believe he scored once in that game, yet it might have been his best game of the season. For whatever reason, whether he was more emotionally engaged in the game, more physically engaged or both, he impacted the game greatly. He opened up space for his teammates, and he forced the other team to make mistakes because of his hustle and physicality.

I don't think people would care about the lack of goals if that was the effort he was bringing on most nights. Ultimately, I think the goals and points tend to come for him when he is playing that type of game.

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04-12-2013, 10:10 AM
  #82
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Lucic is and will be a playoff warrior. 99% of Montreal fans would love to have him in our lineup.

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04-12-2013, 10:16 AM
  #83
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Old
04-12-2013, 10:22 AM
  #84
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Don't buy the injury thing. When he got demoted to line 3 for 2 periods one game, he was all over the place and played great. So was he injured then, or not?

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04-12-2013, 10:26 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
Lucic is and will be a playoff warrior. 99% of Montreal fans would love to have him in our lineup.
I think in the 08-09 and 09-10 playoffs, you could certainly make the case that he played above expectations when you take a look at this regular season numbers from that season.

During those regular seasons he averaged .22 ponts per game and .15 points per game respectively, yet in the playoffs those two seasons, he averaged .78 points per game...a huge jump obviously.

But if you look at his regular season numbers for the last two years, he has played below expectations in the playoffs, at least as far as numbers go.

The past two regular seasons (not including this year) he has averaged .78 points per game and .75 points per game respectively, yet over that same time in the post-season he has averaged only .46 points per game, quite a bit below the standard that he had set for himself during those regular seasons.

Now, that is not to say he wasn't a factor at all during their Cup run in '11 because he was, and that is not to say that he wasn't slowed by injuries at times, but the numbers are what the numbers are. He has not been a playoff warrior the past two seasons.

Who knows, maybe this year he erases the memory of a disappointing regular season with a stellar post season. I'm sure everyone would be happy with that.


edit: Wooo hooo! 1,000th post! When do I get my complimentary HF Boards t-shirt in the mail?

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04-12-2013, 10:35 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
Lucic is and will be a playoff warrior. 99% of Montreal fans would love to have him in our lineup.
Lucic is most certainly not a playoff warrior. At least not in his last 35 playoff games or so.

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04-12-2013, 10:36 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
Lucic is and will be a playoff warrior. 99% of Montreal fans would love to have him in our lineup.
Sounds good, Luc for PK.

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04-12-2013, 10:38 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
Lucic is and will be a playoff warrior. 99% of Montreal fans would love to have him in our lineup.
He hasn't played well in the last two playoff's actually a complete non factor in both, he's the biggest disappointment on the team this year

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Old
04-12-2013, 10:48 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by 11MilesPerJohan View Post
Kaoz, I don't fully disagree with your post:

I think most fans know he isn't going to fight at the same clip that he did in the past. It just isn't his role on the team right now. His hit numbers are there, and I don't even know what to say about an effective hit vs. a non-effective hit...not sure how you define that, but the eyeball test is very revealing with this guy right now.

Whether you think he is hitting enough or not, or fighting enough or not, he just isn't impacting the game the way that he is capable of. That is the bottom line.

I really like to use that Washington game after he was called out by Claude as an example of what Lucic's game should be. My memory isn't perfectly clear, but I don't believe he scored once in that game, yet it might have been his best game of the season. For whatever reason, whether he was more emotionally engaged in the game, more physically engaged or both, he impacted the game greatly. He opened up space for his teammates, and he forced the other team to make mistakes because of his hustle and physicality.

I don't think people would care about the lack of goals if that was the effort he was bringing on most nights. Ultimately, I think the goals and points tend to come for him when he is playing that type of game.
This is part of the problem. Lucic took over that Washington game, same with that Ottawa game. If he took over every game like that he'd be making a hell of a lot more money then he is right now and then he's slated to make. He'd be up there with the Crosby's of the NHL. If that's what you need from Lucic to make yourself think he's worth keeping around, you need to lower your expectations.

As it is, he's a great player that brings a consistent physical game and is streaky offensively. He's been part of a line that's struggled to produce goals this season with Krejci and Horton, and one that for some reason will not be broken up. I also wouldn't be surprised if the half season thing/lack of training camp has hurt him (and a lot of other players) as well. Numbers are weird all over the league.

If you want to get on a player about consistent effort you have about 20 other targets you can single out as well.

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04-12-2013, 10:55 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
This is part of the problem. Lucic took over that Washington game, same with that Ottawa game. If he took over every game like that he'd be making a hell of a lot more money then he is right now and then he's slated to make. He'd be up there with the Crosby's of the NHL. If that's what you need from Lucic to make yourself think he's worth keeping around, you need to lower your expectations.

As it is, he's a great player that brings a consistent physical game and is streaky offensively. He's been part of a line that's struggled to produce goals this season with Krejci and Horton, and one that for some reason will not be broken up. I also wouldn't be surprised if the half season thing/lack of training camp has hurt him (and a lot of other players) as well. Numbers are weird all over the league.

If you want to get on a player about consistent effort you have about 20 other targets you can single out as well.
But a 700k guy not giving consistent effort has way less impact than a 6m guy.

And fwiw Seguin, Chara, Bergeron are earning their salaries fairly decently, or at least close. Krejci is close. Looch is the big earner who isn't holding up his end.

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04-12-2013, 10:57 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
Glad to see the usual suspects out in full force with pitchfork's in hand.

Here's a possible reason:

Lucic is injured.I saw a replay on NBC Jersey game where he winced when his left shoulder was checked into the boards.

As a matter of fact,I'm guessing a lot of guys are nursing sore bones.

Carry on.....
Even if that's the case, isn't that equally as damning?

He seems to get an injury every year, and can't ever play close to his talent level with it. If he's injury prone and not capable to playing up to his gifts for most of a season, then what's the point of keeping him? His money could be used on people who can play competent hockey through pain.

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04-12-2013, 11:02 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by RedeyeRocketeer View Post
But a 700k guy not giving consistent effort has way less impact than a 6m guy.

And fwiw Seguin, Chara, Bergeron are earning their salaries fairly decently, or at least close. Krejci is close. Looch is the big earner who isn't holding up his end.
I'm one of the biggest Seguin fans on here and he's been just as inconsistent as anyone, as have Krejci, Kelly, Peverley, and Horton and all make similar or more money then Lucic.

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04-12-2013, 11:02 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
This is part of the problem. Lucic took over that Washington game, same with that Ottawa game. If he took over every game like that he'd be making a hell of a lot more money then he is right now and then he's slated to make. He'd be up there with the Crosby's of the NHL. If that's what you need from Lucic to make yourself think he's worth keeping around, you need to lower your expectations.

As it is, he's a great player that brings a consistent physical game and is streaky offensively. He's been part of a line that's struggled to produce goals this season with Krejci and Horton, and one that for some reason will not be broken up. I also wouldn't be surprised if the half season thing/lack of training camp has hurt him (and a lot of other players) as well. Numbers are weird all over the league.

If you want to get on a player about consistent effort you have about 20 other targets you can single out as well.
I never said that he isn't worth keeping around. I also never said that he was the only player who isn't performing.

He isn't playing well, and he is going through a bad stretch. I happen to think he could do more than what he has done, and we have seen flashes of that. Lucic is making a good chunk of money as it is, and he is never going to be up there with the Crosbys of the world because he is never going to put up those types of numbers, nor do I expect him to. But he can take over games like he did in Washington when he is mentally engaged in the game, which leads to him being physically engaged. Yes, I expect a power forward making 5.5 big ones and a 6 mil dollar cap hit to perform on a more consistent basis and to take over games the way that HE is capable of taking over games. It's not about the numbers. He is making the money he is making less for his numbers and more for the entire package that he brings to the game. He hasn't been bringing that consistently enough this year. I'm not saying trade him, I'm not saying he can't get it back...I am simply pointing out that he has not met the expectations that HE has set for himself based on how he has played in the past. And yes, based on the expectations that come with the type of money he is making. I don't want him to be superman, I just want him to be Milan Lucic.

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04-12-2013, 11:08 AM
  #94
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I'm one of the biggest Seguin fans on here and he's been just as inconsistent as anyone, as have Krejci, Kelly, Peverley, and Horton and all make similar or more money then Lucic.
They have been inconsistent as well. I don't expect as much from Kelly and Peverley, based on the expectations that I have for them. When they play poorly, it impacts the team less than when Lucic plays poorly. He has a bigger role on this team: 1st line winger. Seguin has been inconsistent, but he has still been much better than Lucic this year. I actually think Krejci has played pretty well on the whole, considering that his wingers have been invisible for stretches.

I get your point about singling out Lucic...he's not the only one, but this is a Lucic thread, so people aren't going to be criticizing others in this thread. Create a thread about any one of those players and I'm sure people will be more than happy to pile on them as well

edit: I didn't see that you threw Horton's name in there at first...yeah, he has been invisible for long stretches as well...I think he has been worse than Lucic to be honest, goals or no goals. I don't like the way he has played.

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04-12-2013, 11:09 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
This is somewhat ironic. If he was more of a scorer people would have far far less of a problem right now, the only reason to get on him is because of that lack of goal scoring, either that or his lack of fighting.

He's hitting as much or more then usual, he's taking less shots, his shooting % is way down, he's making more passes and getting more helpers because of it. "But his hits aren't effective" is about as asinine a statement as the old "Phil Kessel's goals count less cause of who he scores against" argument we used to see.

As for the fighting aspect, his fighting took a drop when he became a top line player and his responsibilities changed. He isn't paid 4 mill a year to be some knucklehead who breaks his hands on the other teams 800k per year goon. He's paid to be a top line player who intimidates and makes plays and he's been doing that.

I've been saying it all year, if you want his goal production to increase you need to take him off of Krejci's line. There's a reason he gels with Seguin, Seguin is a North/South player who likes to get the puck on net, lots of opportunity for Lucic to clean up out front or use his size to find space near the net and bang in a rebound.
I'd be more inclined to agree with the bolded if Lucic was playing closer to the net. IMHO, he's playing further away now than he did when paired with Kessel & Savard, so even when pucks are getting on net, he's not close enough to either deflect them or clean up the rebound. Unless he starts playing closer to the net, his linemates won't make much of a difference.

I think the bigger difference than anything is something that you mentioned a paragraph or two before the bolded: Lucic is looking to pass more now. Whether it's by necessity (e.g. Savard's puck handling style compared to Krejci's) or because of Lucic's own comfort in playing with the puck in the NHL, I feel like Lucic circa a few years ago was a 'shoot first, pass second' type of player and this season it seems like he's the opposite. It's tough to score when you're not shooting and not in a position to clean up a mess in front of the net.

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04-12-2013, 11:13 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by TSC View Post
Lucic is most certainly not a playoff warrior. At least not in his last 35 playoff games or so.
I might be wrong here but offensive production predictions by management and fans might be what puts pressure on Looch to change his game. If he were to go back to his old style of play of bang and crunch and blocking up the front of the net and scoring the garbage goals he is known for fans would have more appreciation. I know contracts can change our overview on a player ( Gomez ) great example.

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Originally Posted by hemispheres View Post
Sounds good, Luc for PK.
No i think the Habs would probably pass on this one ( only because the Habs don't need him at the moment ). Thanks for the offer though..

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04-12-2013, 11:15 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the overrated View Post
I'd be more inclined to agree with the bolded if Lucic was playing closer to the net. IMHO, he's playing further away now than he did when paired with Kessel & Savard, so even when pucks are getting on net, he's not close enough to either deflect them or clean up the rebound. Unless he starts playing closer to the net, his linemates won't make much of a difference.

I think the bigger difference than anything is something that you mentioned a paragraph or two before the bolded: Lucic is looking to pass more now. Whether it's by necessity (e.g. Savard's puck handling style compared to Krejci's) or because of Lucic's own comfort in playing with the puck in the NHL, I feel like Lucic circa a few years ago was a 'shoot first, pass second' type of player and this season it seems like he's the opposite. It's tough to score when you're not shooting and not in a position to clean up a mess in front of the net.
This line is playing like the old 700lbs line. Knuble or Joe carry over the blue line and dump it in.... Knuble does all the dirty work...gets it to Joe who either A. feeds Murray in the middle to high slot, or B. feeds the point...Knuble was much better at getting free from the boards and out in front...Lucic is very slow at that...

Lucic should be the focal point, but Horton isn't in shape/ right frame of mind / too waek along the boards..

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04-12-2013, 11:17 AM
  #98
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Don't buy the injury thing. When he got demoted to line 3 for 2 periods one game, he was all over the place and played great. So was he injured then, or not?
I think who he plays with is a factor. Lucic hasn't been setting the tempo this year for whatever reason. That's the value he brings and he can be completely upsetting to the opposition. But he's been letting others set the pace and when Horton and Krejci are doing it, he slows way down and tries to react to their playing. And that's not his game so he doesn't play well. He needs to play with North south guys that like to move towards the goal.
I thought the set up last night improved things for him. He was stronger through the neutral zone and attempted some more opportunistic passes. Wasn't a great game since completely new line-mates all around, but he looked more awake than he has.

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04-12-2013, 11:19 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
I might be wrong here but offensive production predictions by management and fans might be what puts pressure on Looch to change his game. If he were to go back to his old style of play of bang and crunch and blocking up the front of the net and scoring the garbage goals he is known for fans would have more appreciation. I know contracts can change our overview on a player ( Gomez ) great example.
I think that is a fair point...I'm not sure if he feels pressure to produce certain numbers, and if he does, where that pressure comes from, but to me his offensive numbers are always going to be linked with banging and crunching that you are talking about. When he is playing that way, his numbers and his teammate's numbers come. I think he does view himself as a different player than the one that first came into the league, and to an extent, that is fine. I don't think he should be fighting as much, but there are times when he forgets what made him successful in the first place, and there are times when he plays like he is too comfortable. All the great things that he has accomplished over his career, all of the points that he has put up, and even his big contract would not have been possible if he didn't come into the league with a chip on his shoulder and playing like he had something to prove, like he was pissed off at the world. When that goes away, he is a less effective player. Maybe it's unfair to expect him to play like that all the time, like Kaoz is saying, but that is just what I want and expect from him because I have seen it from him before. I like the guy and want him to do well. I hope he does.

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04-12-2013, 11:39 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
This line is playing like the old 700lbs line. Knuble or Joe carry over the blue line and dump it in.... Knuble does all the dirty work...gets it to Joe who either A. feeds Murray in the middle to high slot, or B. feeds the point...Knuble was much better at getting free from the boards and out in front...Lucic is very slow at that...

Lucic should be the focal point, but Horton isn't in shape/ right frame of mind / too waek along the boards..
Very true- but IMO Lucic is trying to be Joe out there more than he is trying to be Knuble (using his size and reputation to protect the puck and set up linemates rather than get on people and dig the puck out).

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