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Has Adam Oates Been Fired Yet????

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03-08-2013, 10:38 AM
  #126
BobRouse
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Was this posted so all could see?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...hot-topic.html



15. Had a terrific conversation with Oates last week about his dislike for players lining up on their off-wing. He is 100 per cent against it and explains why with an MLB analogy. "You look back through the history of baseball and every shortstop throws right. Why?" "Because it's too hard to make the throw left-handed," is the reply. "Right," he says. "How many plays won't be made because a left-handed shortstop isn't able to turn, get set and make the throw with strength or speed?" He believes the same theory applies to a winger on the wrong side.

16. One play he uses to illustrate this theory is Alex Burrows' 11-second overtime winner in Game 2 of the 2011 Stanley Cup Final.

Watch Andrew Ference off the draw. "He takes two steps, is closed off and has no play," Oates said. He then pointed out something very interesting. Look at Boston's roster now: four left-shooting wings. Four right-shooting wings. Two right-shooting centres. Two left-shooting centres. Three right-shot defencemen. Three left-shot defencemen. (It's true, you can look it up.) That's going to be the blueprint in Washington.


17. Oates, again with a laugh, asked if he's requested GM George McPhee re-sign Mike Ribeiro: "Yes, and I think Alex [Ovechkin] has, too."


18. Final one from him, asked about his relationship with Ovechkin: "The one thing I made sure he'd know is that anything I told him would stay between us...Before I got here, he was guaranteed $100 million. He could easily have said, 'Go fly a kite.' But he's been great. I need this kid to trust me."


19. I relayed all of this stuff to someone, and he said to me, "You know how Ovechkin knows he can trust Oates? Because he never says once that Ovechkin's curve makes it very hard for him to play the left side."
That is some insightful stuff. Wow I never thought of it that way. Handedness is way more important than I initially thought.

RH really hit the nail on the head on this one. Kudos.

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03-08-2013, 10:44 AM
  #127
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Anyone else seeing the Oates offense coming to fruition? No, it has nothing to do with scoring 7 goals last night.

The forward skating in with the puck is not driving blindly north. He is often peeling back or slowing down and looking to pass. We are becoming a passing team. And its not just Ribs but when George gives you Ribs and Nick, its obvious how we have to score. With Oates Mr Dish himself as coach, it's no surprise.

More easily seen are players simply driving the net. In swarms. Even diminutive MP last night drove at the D, cuts inside and scores. Fehr the game before driving down the slot straight at the G like a ****ing stud. Ovi and his 3 G plows are well documented. Hendricks is in front of the net like never before. Wolski has potted 2 right in front and had another wiz by his head (Kunds). Ribs a passer is often near the goal himself for easy tap ins. When the passers are getting easy tap ins, watch out.

Even the defensemen have turned very active in recent games, Erskine last night led the rush on the opening goal. The Dmen are cranking shots and guys are driving the net. Its such a simple offense I can't believe it takes 25 games to learn it.

Way to go Oates, this type of offense is not as easily defended because teams now do not know we are headed north and north only.

I think it is Oates' system that is coming into fruition.

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03-08-2013, 10:53 AM
  #128
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Thanks BRo. Funny thing is no one directly taught it to me. I learned it from watching Bryan Murray target offside (usually offensive) dmen to get hit in the playoffs, and from trying to play off side in my illustrious roller career. Watching players struggle for decades.

Just watch a guy on his offside. Forwards are almost always best seen on the rush awkwardly missing a one timer, forced into using a weak back hand, turning the body away from the goal to pass or shoot, or simply unable to drive down the wing. Dmen, attempting to clear the puck up ice, and point play.

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03-08-2013, 11:06 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Thanks BRo. Funny thing is no one directly taught it to me. I learned it from watching Bryan Murray target offside (usually offensive) dmen to get hit in the playoffs, and from trying to play off side in my illustrious roller career. Watching players struggle for decades.

Just watch a guy on his offside. Forwards are almost always best seen on the rush awkwardly missing a one timer, forced into using a weak back hand, turning the body away from the goal to pass or shoot, or simply unable to drive down the wing. Dmen, attempting to clear the puck up ice, and point play.
I always wanted to play on my off side D but now that I look back I do remember being much more effective getting shots off and playing D on my correct side. If I get back into playing I will definitely test this out! It was much easier getting a slap shot off on the right side that is for sure (being right handed). Also pivoting too. Interesting...

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03-08-2013, 11:38 AM
  #130
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Oates is starting to remind of a crew chief in racing. There is so much parity that even the quirkiest innovation may be the difference.

The analogy to a shortstop is insightful. If Oates were a baseball manager would he want a left handed catcher to throw to first or a right handed catcher to throw the guy out going to third. He'd probably seek out that ambidextrous guy. LOL

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04-12-2013, 08:37 AM
  #131
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I know the topic has been addressed to an extent in various other threads, but I wanted to push this to the top and get a feel from those who are much more well versed in hockey systems on how they see things.

Has the look of the team over the last 10+ games clearly revealed the type of system Oates has been trying to implement?

If so, what are your thoughts on it? Advantages, disadvantages, playoff viability, etc., etc.

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04-12-2013, 09:27 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Oates is starting to remind of a crew chief in racing. There is so much parity that even the quirkiest innovation may be the difference.

The analogy to a shortstop is insightful. If Oates were a baseball manager would he want a left handed catcher to throw to first or a right handed catcher to throw the guy out going to third. He'd probably seek out that ambidextrous guy. LOL
Yes, it is insightful... but only because Adam is wrong. There have been 3 left-handed shortstops... one so good that he was elected to the Hall of Fame.

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04-12-2013, 09:31 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
Yes, it is insightful... but only because Adam is wrong. There have been 3 left-handed shortstops... one so good that he was elected to the Hall of Fame.
Those guys are the exception though, not the rule.

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04-12-2013, 09:34 AM
  #134
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Oates clearly has had a big hand in getting things sorted out. I for one was concerned that in a short season implementing a system so complex it takes 25 games to learn was not a wise plan. But in hindsight, he pushed all in on the team finishing the year strong.

As far as noob coaching goes, that is certainly a reasonable and wise goal to try to attain.

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04-12-2013, 09:36 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
I know the topic has been addressed to an extent in various other threads, but I wanted to push this to the top and get a feel from those who are much more well versed in hockey systems on how they see things.

Has the look of the team over the last 10+ games clearly revealed the type of system Oates has been trying to implement?

If so, what are your thoughts on it? Advantages, disadvantages, playoff viability, etc., etc.
To me, the team and Adam put me in mind of the Detroit Lions, under the coaching of Monte Clark.

The Lions would do pretty much the same: play horribly at first... then rally, and play just well enough to make the playoffs.

Clark and the Lions were famous for their wide smirks after making the playoffs.

They were also famous for their closed doors after being eliminated in the 1st round.

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04-12-2013, 09:38 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Those guys are the exception though, not the rule.
Yes, they were. And that's why you want to use the term "mostly" instead of "every"... eh?

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04-12-2013, 09:47 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Oates clearly has had a big hand in getting things sorted out. I for one was concerned that in a short season implementing a system so complex it takes 25 games to learn was not a wise plan. But in hindsight, he pushed all in on the team finishing the year strong.

As far as noob coaching goes, that is certainly a reasonable and wise goal to try to attain.
Ovechkin/Backstrom/Green have for one reason or another had their fair share of struggles the two seasons prior.

They look good now for sure. Back to their old ways and all are playing better two way hockey.

Oates has to be given some credit for that.

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04-12-2013, 09:59 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
To me, the team and Adam put me in mind of the Detroit Lions, under the coaching of Monte Clark.

The Lions would do pretty much the same: play horribly at first... then rally, and play just well enough to make the playoffs.

Clark and the Lions were famous for their wide smirks after making the playoffs.

They were also famous for their closed doors after being eliminated in the 1st round.
I think it's too early to put them in this category. It's just the first year, and they were arguably still learning the system for that slow start. If they start slow again next year, then we can start to talk about a developing trend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
Yes, they were. And that's why you want to use the term "mostly" instead of "every"... eh?
I didn't go back and read the shortstop analogy post, so I'm not really familiar with what you're referencing. Of course there are exceptions to every best practice, but it's a best practice for a reason.

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04-12-2013, 10:13 AM
  #139
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I'm no huge baseball fan these days but basically Oates said (heavy paraphrase)
that "you don't see too many left handed throwing shortstops". The reason why he explained is that it is very difficult for them to field the ball, pivot and then throw to first base as it would take an extra split second to make that throw and thus makes it far more difficult.

I think I got the gist of it and the handedness part right at least.

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04-12-2013, 10:32 AM
  #140
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The key point WRT the handedness issue is that Oates believes playing on the strong side gives guys more opportunities to make plays, makes those plays easier, and enables them to do it faster. Nothing wrong with that.

On the larger question, I am very pleased with Oates so far. Yeah the team sucked early, but I have come to believe that was mostly the learning curve. Adam didn't seem worried/bothered by the losing and seemed to expect it. He clearly knew it would take time, especially without a training camp or preseason.

The Caps are finally playing balanced 2-way, 3-zone hockey. I think our personnel isn't where it needs to be to execute the system to a tee, but you can see the system at work in all 3 zones. I thought their neutral zone play against MTL was superb. (Caveat: I was disappointed to see them collapse back behind their blue late in the third.)

Neither BB nor Dale demanded this kind of discipline all over the ice. It's much harder than playing all O or all D. Oates is insisting on it. The team is really getting it. 8, 19, and 52 are playing their best hockey in years. And the team's won 6 in a row and climbed into playoff contention, even after the awful start.

Hard to argue with those results.

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04-12-2013, 11:14 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
Yes, it is insightful... but only because Adam is wrong. There have been 3 left-handed shortstops... one so good that he was elected to the Hall of Fame.
In a sport that awards gold gloves (?) based on players' hitting ability, I'm sure that guy was elected based on his fielding ability.

Anyway, Oates

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04-16-2013, 10:02 PM
  #142
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The Erat thing is definitely a reach, but this is pretty good:

http://www.japersrink.com/2013/4/15/...ophy-candidate

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04-16-2013, 11:05 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
To me, the team and Adam put me in mind of the Detroit Lions, under the coaching of Monte Clark.

The Lions would do pretty much the same: play horribly at first... then rally, and play just well enough to make the playoffs.

Clark and the Lions were famous for their wide smirks after making the playoffs.

They were also famous for their closed doors after being eliminated in the 1st round.
Well they DID come within a missed Eddie Murray field goal of upsetting the 'Niners in 83-84......probably would have won if Gary Danielson hadn't tossed five picks.

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04-17-2013, 12:59 PM
  #144
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the biggest change for me is the ovy switch to rw

ovy was stubborn first but he slowly growth to his new position and this is the key for the capitals overall change. now we have a new old ovechkin who does not need to carry the puck against multiple defenders. he has more touches but less puck on stick time, i like it.

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04-17-2013, 01:16 PM
  #145
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His players, especially his Captain, can't say enough good things about him. Buzz words/phrase for me that stand out when players talk about him: trust, mature, teacher, intelligent, easily approachable, tactician, even keeled, etc. He may very well be the real deal.

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04-17-2013, 01:19 PM
  #146
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The players also loved Boudreau. Let's see how Oates does in the playoffs and future seasons before getting too giddy.

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04-17-2013, 01:29 PM
  #147
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The players also loved Boudreau. Let's see how Oates does in the playoffs and future seasons before getting too giddy.
I think the idea is that those qualities tend to drive success. Boudreau wasn't a failure here unless a Stanley Cup (or Finals berth) is the only measure of success.

I'm more interested to see how Oates adapts as other coaches find ways to gameplan against his system.

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04-17-2013, 01:49 PM
  #148
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The players also loved Boudreau. Let's see how Oates does in the playoffs and future seasons before getting too giddy.
Boudreau made himself one of them, and wore his own emotions all over himself, the opposite of 'even-keeled.' I definitely agree that Oates' ability to hold players accountable within the relationship he's established with them (aka without losing the room) is a major potential problem. I have to think he anticipates that aspect of the job and knows how he'll handle it, but that remains to be seen. I think the fact that the players are accountable to the learning process is a good thing. He shows them the reasoning behind his instruction, and they're accountable to that as much to his authority as coach. The challenge of that, to me, is to maintain that authority when it's not an emphasis of his approach.

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04-17-2013, 02:01 PM
  #149
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Adams for Adam?

i like the ring of it

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04-17-2013, 03:22 PM
  #150
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What's the source on this 25 games to learn thing?

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