HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Brian Boyle

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-12-2013, 07:03 AM
  #201
Blue Blooded
Registered User
 
Blue Blooded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
The problem with the perception of Boyle is what I'd like to call "the Boyle factor".

Granted, Brian doesn't have the best hands or offensive instincts. But I'd say the most significant factor that causes Boyle to neuter the production of his linemates is situational usage.

Torts loves to use Boyle in defensive situations, and his Off Zone Start % is a very low 37.7%. Hagelin was scoring at a very good pace at ES and had an OZS% of ~55-60% while leading the team in Corsi Rel. before being put with Boyle, it has now declined to 49.1 while his Corsi Rel. has dropped from ~18 to 12.

It is just a fact that whatever line Boyle is on will struggle to score consistently due to starting out in their own end most of the time.

I'd put him on LW with defensive FO duties on a line with Brass and Cally who both score most of their points on the PP and aren't consistent offensive threats at ES. This allows Hagelin who used to be one of our top ES scorers to be put back into an offensive role, either with Step and Nash, or with Richards and Clowe.

Zucc-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Richards-Clowe
Boyle-Brassard-Callahan
Pyatt-Powe-Asham

Blue Blooded is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 11:02 AM
  #202
NYRKindms
Registered User
 
NYRKindms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 617
vCash: 500
"#NYR practice lines: Nash-Stepan-Callahan (same), Clowe-Richards-Boyle, Hagelin-Brassard-Zuccarello, Pyatt-Powe-Asham (same).

Andrew Gross ‏@AGrossRecord 4m

So Boyle and Zuccarello flip spots on practice lines. All eight defensemen on ice along with two goalies. Full practice after team photo."

Now I just thinks Torts is trolling us.

NYRKindms is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 11:10 AM
  #203
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,609
vCash: 500
Torts is keeping the slow players on a line together.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 12:36 PM
  #204
SA16
Two by two...
 
SA16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
I mean between seasons. How many player, have we got left in our bottom 6 since two seasons ago? Or one season ago? Even if you include players we traded away this season, the answer is still Brian Boyle. Hagelin occasionally. Why? Because he's doing a solid job at a reasonable price (slightly high). Simple as that. If replacing him was that simple, how come we traded away/waived/sent down Rupp, Halpern, Ferreiro, Haley, Fedotenko, Mitchell, Prust etc...either not good enough or because they wanted too much money..

Kreider and Miller wasn't given the opportunity? They where given all the time in the world, yet they did not produce. Should we put Kreider with Nash and Stepan for him to produce and contribute? If that what it takes to get Kreider going he has no business in the NHL. And while Boyle doesn't provide point wise, he isn't a defensive liability.

My point is; it's not as simple as just replace through free agency.
For all of the guys you mentioned either their contracts ran out, they were on 2-way deals, or were completely ineffective and gotten rid of (Rupp..halpern though I don't think he was so bad). Boyle had a fluky 20 goal year and was resigned to a 3 year deal which is why he is here. Boyle isn't an ineffective player. He's good in his role. Just when you try and put him in other roles at all comes crashing now (ex. having him listed with clowe and richards for tomorrows game. Now I doubt that line will stay together but if we imagine it does ans is a 2nd line thas an absurd misuse of his abilities. He';s supposed to be a good defensive player - playing him with richards is going to simulatenously hurt that lines offense and cause us to lack a defensive presence we can use later.

SA16 is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 12:37 PM
  #205
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
I mean between seasons. How many player, have we got left in our bottom 6 since two seasons ago? Or one season ago? Even if you include players we traded away this season, the answer is still Brian Boyle. Hagelin occasionally. Why? Because he's doing a solid job at a reasonable price (slightly high). Simple as that. If replacing him was that simple, how come we traded away/waived/sent down Rupp, Halpern, Ferreiro, Haley, Fedotenko, Mitchell, Prust etc...either not good enough or because they wanted too much money..

Kreider and Miller wasn't given the opportunity? They where given all the time in the world, yet they did not produce. Should we put Kreider with Nash and Stepan for him to produce and contribute? If that what it takes to get Kreider going he has no business in the NHL. And while Boyle doesn't provide point wise, he isn't a defensive liability.

My point is; it's not as simple as just replace through free agency.
The simple answer to all of this is TORTS and the Cap. What he values in a hockey player is different than what many of us value and so BB remains and others have not. He sees things on the defensive side of the puck that BB allegedly does that I contend are very generous. I go to more than half of the home games and although Brian wins his draws and blocks his share of shots, he fails to possess the puck, pass the puck or shoot the puck and these deficiencies (outside of shooting) are in all three zones. His lack of puck skills often lead to us being trapped in our zone for long stretches; this is not good defense.

Of course there is no specific stat for this assertion so take it anyway you want. The great defensive forwards in this league are not just players who block pucks; they are players who possess the puck and rescue the team from offensive pressure. He cannot do that well enough.

So, he is good (not great) on the PK. He is average defensively mostly because of his wingspan and effort. His positioning leaves alot to be desired and his skating is not good. And offensively; that simply offensive.

4th liner.

Bardof425* is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 12:38 PM
  #206
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,682
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Of course there is no specific stat for this assertion so take it anyway you want. The great defensive forwards in this league are not just players who block pucks; they are players who possess the puck and rescue the team from offensive pressure. He cannot do that well enough.
Because there are no stats that measure puck possession....

__________________


Rangers Unlimited
Hockey Graphs
Thirty One is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 01:12 PM
  #207
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Because there are no stats that measure puck possession....
None that are nuanced enough to be of any value IMHO. You disagree?

Bardof425* is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 01:14 PM
  #208
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,682
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
None that are nuanced enough to be of any value IMHO. You disagree?
Strongly.

Thirty One is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 01:45 PM
  #209
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,111
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Strongly.
Bard's warped opinion/eyesight is stronger than any statistic.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 01:56 PM
  #210
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Bard's warped opinion/eyesight is stronger than any statistic.
Does holding the puck for 5 seconds along the boards and then losing it while moving toward the blue line which leads to a 3 on 2 the other way which leads to a goal (worst +- on the team) provide more value than holding the puck for a second and a half before shooting and scoring? Seriously, are you going to tell me that the pointless time BB spends along the boards before he inevitably loses the puck without so much as making a pass or shot is helpful? Who's got the warped eyes? You, like Torts will overlook all of Brian's faults to try and make him appear to be something he's just not; a top 9 player. Wake the **** up!

Bardof425* is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 02:02 PM
  #211
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,682
vCash: 420
This situation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
holding the puck for 5 seconds along the boards and then losing it while moving toward the blue line which leads to a 3 on 2 the other way which leads to a goal
would result in a -1 in Corsi.

This situation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
holding the puck for a second and a half before shooting and scoring?
would result in a +1 in Corsi.

Thirty One is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 02:04 PM
  #212
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
This situation:

would result in a -1 in Corsi.

This situation:

would result in a +1 in Corsi.
Corsi this, Corsi that. Not buying it.

Bardof425* is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 02:11 PM
  #213
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,682
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Corsi this, Corsi that. Not buying it.
How have you concluded you don't buy Corsi, if you have shown you don't understand it at all?

Thirty One is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 04:52 PM
  #214
NYRKindms
Registered User
 
NYRKindms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
How have you concluded you don't buy Corsi, if you have shown you don't understand it at all?
"The numbers also illustrate how much Brian Boyle’s role with the team has diminished. Last season, he had a .446 Corsi Rel QoC. This season, he’s down to -.186, which shows an extreme drop in Torts’ confidence in his shutdown center. Just goes to show you that last year’s metrics do not always apply to the current situation. Boyle is a prime example."

NYRKindms is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 04:53 PM
  #215
Bob Richards
Global Moderator
Mr. Mojo Risin'
 
Bob Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 47,055
vCash: 50
I have absolutely no idea what any of these stats mean.

My opinion on Boyle remains unaffected.

__________________
"New day, new hope. Richards Buyout 2014". -Ail
Bob Richards is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 05:00 PM
  #216
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,682
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRKindms View Post
"The numbers also illustrate how much Brian Boyle’s role with the team has diminished. Last season, he had a .446 Corsi Rel QoC. This season, he’s down to -.186, which shows an extreme drop in Torts’ confidence in his shutdown center. Just goes to show you that last year’s metrics do not always apply to the current situation. Boyle is a prime example."
Where is that quote from?

How would that show Torts' confidence in him has dropped? It shows he's been worse than last year, which is obvious.

Thirty One is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 05:02 PM
  #217
NYRKindms
Registered User
 
NYRKindms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Where is that quote from?

How would that show Torts' confidence in him has dropped? It shows he's been worse than last year, which is obvious.
http://www.blueseatblogs.com/2013/04...corsi-rel-qoc/

to be honest I don't really follow corsi. I just googled Boyle and corsi and that was the 2nd link. Thought it was interesting.

NYRKindms is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 05:51 PM
  #218
Sticky Fingers
NYR
 
Sticky Fingers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,559
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
For all of the guys you mentioned either their contracts ran out, they were on 2-way deals, or were completely ineffective and gotten rid of (Rupp..halpern though I don't think he was so bad). Boyle had a fluky 20 goal year and was resigned to a 3 year deal which is why he is here. Boyle isn't an ineffective player. He's good in his role. Just when you try and put him in other roles at all comes crashing now (ex. having him listed with clowe and richards for tomorrows game. Now I doubt that line will stay together but if we imagine it does ans is a 2nd line thas an absurd misuse of his abilities. He';s supposed to be a good defensive player - playing him with richards is going to simulatenously hurt that lines offense and cause us to lack a defensive presence we can use later.
Yeah, and that was kind a much my point, it ain't that easy to just replace bottom 6 through free agency?!

OT: Hagelin better keep his eyes open for passes when playing on a line with Brassard and Zucc. If that's what the lines are gonna look like.

Sticky Fingers is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 05:55 PM
  #219
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,682
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRKindms View Post
http://www.blueseatblogs.com/2013/04...corsi-rel-qoc/

to be honest I don't really follow corsi. I just googled Boyle and corsi and that was the 2nd link. Thought it was interesting.
Actually, the error is mine. Corsi Rel QoC measures the quality of competition based on opponent's Corsi Relative. Should totally be called QoC - Corsi Rel.

Thirty One is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 05:56 PM
  #220
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
How have you concluded you don't buy Corsi, if you have shown you don't understand it at all?
I understand that a missed shot (which often lead to a change of possession or a clear are a positive event. That's all i need to know to find it very questionable.

Bardof425* is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 06:00 PM
  #221
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,682
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I understand that a missed shot (which often lead to a change of possession or a clear are a positive event. That's all i need to know to find it very questionable.
If possession does change that will be reflected in the numbers...

Thirty One is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 06:28 PM
  #222
SA16
Two by two...
 
SA16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
Yeah, and that was kind a much my point, it ain't that easy to just replace bottom 6 through free agency?!

OT: Hagelin better keep his eyes open for passes when playing on a line with Brassard and Zucc. If that's what the lines are gonna look like.
When they leave us they sign with other teams...as free agents. So yea they can be replaced via free agency.

SA16 is offline  
Old
04-12-2013, 06:30 PM
  #223
SA16
Two by two...
 
SA16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I understand that a missed shot (which often lead to a change of possession or a clear are a positive event. That's all i need to know to find it very questionable.
That's not what it's measuring. It's working backwards by saying "Given this team took a shot at the net, even though they missed, they have had the puck and had an opportunity to do something offensive)

SA16 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 10:12 AM
  #224
NYR510
Registered User
 
NYR510's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,839
vCash: 500
ouch


NYR510 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 03:36 PM
  #225
Bob Richards
Global Moderator
Mr. Mojo Risin'
 
Bob Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 47,055
vCash: 50
Had himself another good game yesterday.

Bob Richards is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:00 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.