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2013 Draft Discussion Part 2

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Old
04-12-2013, 11:54 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
If the lottery is rigged (I don't know that I necessarily believe it is, although the whole situation with Pittsburgh was fishy) then I hope they give the big market team who's been lacking a franchise defenseman since the Stone Age the 1st overall pick.

Would it not be great for the league to have a highly marketable American player taken first overall (who happens to be African American) play in one of the premiere american organizations in the league? I think so. The league likely wants to remain with the support of NBC... The flyers have long been one of the networks favorite teams to market, along with the rangers considering the networks headquarters in both NYC and Philly. I'd have to think NBC would be pretty happy if that were to happen as well.

Make it happen, Gary.
I was thinking that too...Philly would really be the perfect team for Jones from a marketing stand point.

It would be a tough call though if we did win the lottery. Jones is the obvious choice...but MacKinnon could be a really interesting pick as well. I always felt one of the problems of the Lindros era was they never got that second superstar center to support him. Imagine G and Mac as your top two centers? And Coots/Laughton as 3 and 4? Obviously we already have a good crop of centers, but the thought of that is tempting. I think the other side is the organization is going to be desperate to make the playoffs next year, and I think Mac would make a bigger impact right away. Idk, part of my worries about whether or not the organization and fanbase will be patient enough with a guy like Jones.

Ultimately, I think they would go with Jones. It would still be interesting either way.

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04-12-2013, 12:13 PM
  #327
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The draft is not rigged. Take off the tinfoil hats. A team with the highest percent chance to win the lottery wins the lottery! THE FIX IS IN!

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04-12-2013, 12:19 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
The draft is not rigged. Take off the tinfoil hats. A team with the highest percent chance to win the lottery wins the lottery! THE FIX IS IN!
Yeah, but it would be cool for the Flyers to win it, not only to draft Jones, but to listen to the tinfoil wearers in other NHL cities (esp. Pittsburgh) claim that it was fixed, and how Gary Bettman loves Philadelphia.

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04-12-2013, 12:21 PM
  #329
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Yeah, but it would be cool for the Flyers to win it, not only to draft Jones, but to listen to the tinfoil wearers in other NHL cities (esp. Pittsburgh) claim that it was fixed, and how Gary Bettman loves Philadelphia.
Oh I'd love for the Flyers to win it all, and I do think that the Pens have gotten the benefit of being the Pens in the past, but I don't think the draft lottery is or was rigged.

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04-12-2013, 12:28 PM
  #330
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Oh I'd love for the Flyers to win it all, and I do think that the Pens have gotten the benefit of being the Pens in the past, but I don't think the draft lottery is or was rigged.
Just to be sure: you know I agreed with you, right?

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Old
04-12-2013, 12:53 PM
  #331
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I was thinking that too...Philly would really be the perfect team for Jones from a marketing stand point.

It would be a tough call though if we did win the lottery. Jones is the obvious choice...but MacKinnon could be a really interesting pick as well. I always felt one of the problems of the Lindros era was they never got that second superstar center to support him. Imagine G and Mac as your top two centers? And Coots/Laughton as 3 and 4? Obviously we already have a good crop of centers, but the thought of that is tempting. I think the other side is the organization is going to be desperate to make the playoffs next year, and I think Mac would make a bigger impact right away. Idk, part of my worries about whether or not the organization and fanbase will be patient enough with a guy like Jones.

Ultimately, I think they would go with Jones. It would still be interesting either way.
I'm starting the think that we might be better off drafting in the 5-7 range so that Homer won't fall victim to this kind of thinking. Giroux doesn't need another superstar center to support him, he needs what the rest of the team needs- another defenseman (or two) who can efficiently get the puck out of the Flyers' own zone. And maybe even when the situation calls for it, carry the puck through the neutral zone and allow the forwards to attack the net.

The Kings didn't need two superstar centers last year, the Bruins didn't the year before, or the Blackhawks before that, or... on and on. How about a superstar defenseman for a change? It would be nice to have one of those, you know?

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04-12-2013, 12:56 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Just to be sure: you know I agreed with you, right?
Haha, apprently not. My bad.

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04-12-2013, 01:04 PM
  #333
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I'm starting the think that we might be better off drafting in the 5-7 range so that Homer won't fall victim to this kind of thinking. Giroux doesn't need another superstar center to support him, he needs what the rest of the team needs- another defenseman (or two) who can efficiently get the puck out of the Flyers' own zone. And maybe even when the situation calls for it, carry the puck through the neutral zone and allow the forwards to attack the net.

The Kings didn't need two superstar centers last year, the Bruins didn't the year before, or the Blackhawks before that, or... on and on. How about a superstar defenseman for a change? It would be nice to have one of those, you know?
I think it is a stretch to suggest that there is more than one superstar defenseman in this draft. Nurse looks interesting, but his offensive game is still a question mark. Ristolainen looks like a safe all around player. Etc.

I'd prefer Nurse over Lindholm or Monahan, but if we end up 4th (unlikely) and Barkov is on the board, I think you have to take him. (Mackinnon and Drouin are no-brainers, I think).

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04-12-2013, 01:59 PM
  #334
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I think it is a stretch to suggest that there is more than one superstar defenseman in this draft. Nurse looks interesting, but his offensive game is still a question mark. Ristolainen looks like a safe all around player. Etc.

I'd prefer Nurse over Lindholm or Monahan, but if we end up 4th (unlikely) and Barkov is on the board, I think you have to take him. (Mackinnon and Drouin are no-brainers, I think).
If I disagree with any of that it would be only mildly... But I was referring specifically to the possibility that we would end up with the #1 pick and thus the question of do you take Jones or MacKinnon (or for that matter Drouin). I'm sure there would be a little voice in Homer's head that say "take the center, take the center!" but hopefully he would resist. Unlikely scenario in any case.

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04-12-2013, 02:09 PM
  #335
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If I disagree with any of that it would be only mildly... But I was referring specifically to the possibility that we would end up with the #1 pick and thus the question of do you take Jones or MacKinnon (or for that matter Drouin). I'm sure there would be a little voice in Homer's head that say "take the center, take the center!" but hopefully he would resist. Unlikely scenario in any case.
Oh definitely. If we win the lottery and Jones isn't the pick, the fans here will riot--and rightfully so.

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04-12-2013, 02:28 PM
  #336
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http://www.courierpostonline.com/art...nclick_check=1

I can't remember what writer said it but they said they can't remember the Flyers being this open about certain draft prospects months before the draft. Granted the Flyers haven't really been in this position in a while. Even in 2007 JVR, Kane, and Turris weren't as hyped as these guys. The draft itself wasn't even comparable to the hype surrounding this draft class.

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04-12-2013, 02:45 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by JackStraw View Post
I'm starting the think that we might be better off drafting in the 5-7 range so that Homer won't fall victim to this kind of thinking. Giroux doesn't need another superstar center to support him, he needs what the rest of the team needs- another defenseman (or two) who can efficiently get the puck out of the Flyers' own zone. And maybe even when the situation calls for it, carry the puck through the neutral zone and allow the forwards to attack the net.

The Kings didn't need two superstar centers last year, the Bruins didn't the year before, or the Blackhawks before that, or... on and on. How about a superstar defenseman for a change? It would be nice to have one of those, you know?
I dont disagree at all, but the question is, do you trust this organization to develop a superstar defenseman? I feel like the expectation with Jones will be that he is going to come in next year and be Shea Weber (which is absurd, but this is Philadelphia). He might impress, but D men take time to develop. I remember the hype around Hedman his draft year...four years later he is now only starting to look like the guy he was drafted to be. There is nothing wrong with that, he is only 22, but I worry the Flyers and their fans wont have that kind of patience for Jones.

MacKinnon on the other hand, he wont have the same pressure. G will still be the guy, Mac can just fill in behind him. It also opens the door to trade a forward for a more experienced Dman.

I am not saying I would 100% pick Mac over Jones, but I think it is something they should consider if they do get the first overall pick.

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04-12-2013, 02:54 PM
  #338
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I dont disagree at all, but the question is, do you trust this organization to develop a superstar defenseman? I feel like the expectation with Jones will be that he is going to come in next year and be Shea Weber (which is absurd, but this is Philadelphia). He might impress, but D men take time to develop. I remember the hype around Hedman his draft year...four years later he is now only starting to look like the guy he was drafted to be. There is nothing wrong with that, he is only 22, but I worry the Flyers and their fans wont have that kind of patience for Jones.

MacKinnon on the other hand, he wont have the same pressure. G will still be the guy, Mac can just fill in behind him. It also opens the door to trade a forward for a more experienced Dman.

I am not saying I would 100% pick Mac over Jones, but I think it is something they should consider if they do get the first overall pick.
I don't trust this organization to put together a roster that really looks like a potential Cup winner, so I'd just as soon take my chances with a potential franchise defenseman as anything else. The Flyers don't have much of a track record even drafting defensemen in the 1st round, so I don't know how much we can really say. I will say that I think there is a big difference between Seth Jones and Joni Pitkanen, and it's not just talent level.

I would say that if they can't draft and develop a Seth Jones then they might as well never even think about drafting a defenseman in the first round. Unless they plan to just trade him immediately.

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04-12-2013, 02:55 PM
  #339
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Around the places where we are picking, Lindholm might not be a bad player to take a hard look at. C/RW, who can play on the PP and PK. More of a play maker than a scorer but has nice hands and wheels. Also is a very physical player for being 6'0.

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04-12-2013, 03:07 PM
  #340
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Also one guy we should keep an eye on in the 2nd round is Valentin Zykov. Has played on the same line as Petr Straka this season so the scouts who watches Straka would have gotten a GOOD look at Zykov.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=155382

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04-12-2013, 04:02 PM
  #341
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With all due respect to the "flyers can't develop defensemen" sentiment; I think that applies more to lower round project defensemen who need grooming in lower leagues and pinpointing talent at the position in later rounds, rather than highly touted guys like jones.

Jones would 99.9% be on the opening night roster if we were to draft him, meaning that he's going to get nhl playing time and given the opurtunity to become what he can become...

When have we ever drafted a defenseman with jones ceiling/status? The answer is never. It's not as if he's going to be stuck on the phantoms on a losing team and have his development hampered. I don't think this theory really applies here.

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04-12-2013, 04:12 PM
  #342
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With all due respect to the "flyers can't develop defensemen" sentiment; I think that applies more to lower round project defensemen who need grooming in lower leagues and pinpointing talent at the position in later rounds, rather than highly touted guys like jones.

Jones would 99.9% be on the opening night roster if we were to draft him, meaning that he's going to get nhl playing time and given the opurtunity to become what he can become...

When have we ever drafted a defenseman with jones ceiling/status? The answer is never. It's not as if he's going to be stuck on the phantoms on a losing team and have his development hampered. I don't think this theory really applies here.
Well, I think that part of it is right, but developing a player occurs at the NHL level as well, and a guy like Coburn has shown relatively little progression since coming here (to, uh, put it mildly).

That said, Jones looks like a stud, and I'm sure he would be one here, if we somehow manage to luck our way into winning the lottery.

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04-12-2013, 05:28 PM
  #343
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The lottery and draft cannot come quick enough. When we know what actual number pick we have, it'll be easier to see what is realistic and what's not.

The happiness I think the fanbase would have if we got a top 3 pick would be awesome, unfortunately I think we would have to lose out to even consider that (or of couse be blessed by the hockey gods and win the lottery).

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04-12-2013, 08:02 PM
  #344
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Did the NHL-CHL agreement get renewed in the new CBA? More specifically does the rule that you have to either be 20 years old or have 4 full seasons of junior hockey under your belt before you can play for an AHL/NHL club still apply? AKA is Seth Jones eligible to play for Adirondack next year or would he have to go back to Portland? Does he have anything left to prove there? I would hate to see us end up with the #1 overall pick, draft Jones, and then rush him into the NHL.

It takes pretty much every defenseman until the age of 22 (at least) before they start to come into their own. While I'd love to see Jones in orange and black, I just hope everyone realizes what the road to what we all will expect of him looks like.

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04-12-2013, 08:07 PM
  #345
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Also one guy we should keep an eye on in the 2nd round is Valentin Zykov. Has played on the same line as Petr Straka this season so the scouts who watches Straka would have gotten a GOOD look at Zykov.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=155382
2nd round?

Scouts have him in the 15-25 range and I don't remember hearing anything about his stock dropping

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04-12-2013, 08:08 PM
  #346
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in a strange way

and with all the injuries on D we have, the fan base is gonna be happy with our picks in 2013. and winning the lotto is gravy. and remember the flyers organization does not use central scouting, ISS, craig button for making their draft list. that is taken care of by our own scouting department. and we should be very thankful for that. ranked 26th by central scouting, we take a guy we had ranked 6th, peter forsberg, at 22 after montreal takes chouinard at 21, we take simon gagne at 22, and with pick 22, we take a french guy , who central scouting has ranked in the 30s, whom no ohl teams drafted but a qmjhl team felt very highly about and whom we butchered his name at the draft in vancouver, claude giroux. in the flyers scouting department we trust.

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04-12-2013, 08:12 PM
  #347
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Did the NHL-CHL agreement get renewed in the new CBA? More specifically does the rule that you have to either be 20 years old or have 4 full seasons of junior hockey under your belt before you can play for an AHL/NHL club still apply? AKA is Seth Jones eligible to play for Adirondack next year or would he have to go back to Portland? Does he have anything left to prove there? I would hate to see us end up with the #1 overall pick, draft Jones, and then rush him into the NHL.

It takes pretty much every defenseman until the age of 22 (at least) before they start to come into their own. While I'd love to see Jones in orange and black, I just hope everyone realizes what the road to what we all will expect of him looks like.
Jones can't play in the AHL next year. I'd say there's about a 99% chance he'll be in the NHL next year. I doubt another year in junior will do him any good.

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04-12-2013, 08:24 PM
  #348
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The draft is not rigged. Take off the tinfoil hats. A team with the highest percent chance to win the lottery wins the lottery! THE FIX IS IN!
Pens had a 6% chance to get Crosby, and what was our chance to get Patrick Kane? Who scored the OT winner against us in game 6? It's probably not rigged, but we can still be bitter about it

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04-12-2013, 08:34 PM
  #349
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2nd round?

Scouts have him in the 15-25 range and I don't remember hearing anything about his stock dropping
No you're right. He was rated a C prospect (4th round or later pick) on Central Scouting's list at the beginning of the year. Now he's the 8th ranked North American skater on their latest list. His stock has really rised this year.


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04-12-2013, 09:32 PM
  #350
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For those posters on here that were high on Zadorov here's a report from an OHL scout about his recent play:
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Nikita Zadorov continues to show improving offensive instincts. Pace in possession has been elevated. Better decisions.
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When I first saw Zadarov in Windor at the U17's in 2011 he showed some dynamic offensive abilities. Hes starting to show that now in the OHL
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You don't see many 6'5 defenders who can play with intensity while adding offensive tools. High ceiling, should be a top 10 pick in June
Source: Sean Lafortune @SeanLafortune

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