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04-12-2013, 11:26 AM
  #1
deeshamrock
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Top GM's rated (DL #6)

This is from NHL.com who polled a panel of hockey analysts and writers about the top GM's and DL ranked 6th.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=665441


As a hockey fanatic for over 40 years, I can agree 100% with this assesment of what is the most critical structure an NHL team needs to become a perennial Cup contender and winner:

"... He recognized that depth down the middle, a strong defense and solid goaltending are the most important elements to sustained success. Look at the Kings' roster now and you'll see they are loaded in those areas."


He has created a team with a terrific young core who are (and in DB's case will be) signed to reasonable contracts in a day and age where far too many players are paid too much in comparision with the team's CAP. I'll take the Kings core (Kopi, Brown, Richards, carter, quick and DOughty) any day. Having those 6 signed for (if DB gets 5.5 to6) for under 37 million is terrific work by a good GM.

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04-12-2013, 11:28 AM
  #2
driller1
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Dean is #6, not #8

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04-12-2013, 11:42 AM
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kingsfan
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No way I'd put Poile or SHero ahead of DL. The others I agree with.

While I 100% agree with the issues Poile is facing, bottome line is the guy has been a GM for 32 seasons (or is it 31?) and he has never made it to the Cup finals. I think he only made it as far as the conference finals once, and that was largely because John Druce morphed into Mike Bossy for a month. The results just aren't there to warrant that high of a mark.

As for Shero, once again it's no offense to him, but how hard is it to build a decent team when you walk into a situation where you have the top two players in the world (arguably) already in your stable? He's done very good trade wise for sure, but I wouldn't put him ahead of DL either. DL did a full rebuild to win the cup and has arguably the youngest team in the league, kept them all together after a cup win, and is in good shape to win year after year for several seasons, all in 6 years.

EDIT: I'm also curious how Burke gets votes considering he's not a GM.

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04-12-2013, 11:51 AM
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deeshamrock
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As for Shero, once again it's no offense to him, but how hard is it to build a decent team when you walk into a situation where you have the top two players in the world (arguably) already in your stable? He's done very good trade wise for sure, but I wouldn't put him ahead of DL either. DL did a full rebuild to win the cup and has arguably the youngest team in the league, kept them all together after a cup win, and is in good shape to win year after year for several seasons, all in 6 years
.

Valid point on SHero. And I didn't agree with the trades he made this year by the deadline. I think he gave up far too much and not in the areas required. THe Pens were doing fine offensivly, on a run of a bout 15 wins when those trades began. They didn't more offensive, their Achilles heel last year was defense and goaltending. And Murray is not the answer there. If they play the Rangers in the 1st round, Lundquist is more than capable of stealing a series.
I think DL is a lot wiser, keeping his head there. He's delevoped/traded for /signed a great mix of not just quality players but people. He stresses that the person is just as important as the player and maintaining the winning culture is important to him . This team clearly has bonded and are like brothers, and will fight for each other, that showed last year and will this year and into the future
Don't see how SHero's team will be able to do that, not with Sid getting 10 and Malkin and LeTang needed reups next year.

Side note- Still don'\t understand the Caps trading Forsberg for Erat...don't get that at all.

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04-12-2013, 11:57 AM
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Lol. Melrose picks Yzerman 4th best GM in the league.

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04-12-2013, 12:28 PM
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rajuabju
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I cant believe no votes for Feaster!

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04-12-2013, 12:33 PM
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you have to scratch your head about anyone that doesn't rank Holland and Lou in the 1 and 2 slots. they are the benchmark that every GM and franchise tries to model. i love what DL has done, but compared to those two his track record is short.

i agree that what Shero did wasn't what PIT needed. they needed to shore up their D and goaltending first. instead they took the approach of 'we will score more' to make up for having substandard D and 'tending. PIT has done a good job of drafting and developing talent. they keep facing challenges due to injuries and the pipeline from WBS to PIT keeps firing. they have a good core of coaches from Bylsma down the line, that is tapping all that talent. this is a credit to Shero and who he has put in place.

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04-12-2013, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
.

Valid point on SHero. And I didn't agree with the trades he made this year by the deadline. I think he gave up far too much and not in the areas required. THe Pens were doing fine offensivly, on a run of a bout 15 wins when those trades began. They didn't more offensive, their Achilles heel last year was defense and goaltending. And Murray is not the answer there. If they play the Rangers in the 1st round, Lundquist is more than capable of stealing a series.
I think DL is a lot wiser, keeping his head there. He's delevoped/traded for /signed a great mix of not just quality players but people. He stresses that the person is just as important as the player and maintaining the winning culture is important to him . This team clearly has bonded and are like brothers, and will fight for each other, that showed last year and will this year and into the future
Don't see how SHero's team will be able to do that, not with Sid getting 10 and Malkin and LeTang needed reups next year.

Side note- Still don'\t understand the Caps trading Forsberg for Erat...don't get that at all.
I was more referring to past deals, like Neal, Kunitz, etc. I agree with you, the Murray deal was nuts, and it indirectly cost us a 2nd as well as Regehr's price was very likely tied into Murray's. I don't fault Shero on the Iggy deal though. You get a chance to add a guy like him for what looks to be at best the 25th overall pick and two C tier prospects, you do it.

And yeah, I really don't get the Forsberg deal. Nashville stole one there. I had heard his name as high as 2nd overall in some places heading into the draft and likely should have gone in the top seven. You don't just give those guys away.

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04-12-2013, 01:37 PM
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I seriously love Lombardi as GM. There's never been a point where I've thought a move he made was stupid and the moves he does make I really thought they needed. It's so refreshing when all the other GMs of teams I root are absolute idiots most of the time.

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04-12-2013, 02:33 PM
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Chiarelli is the best imo.

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04-12-2013, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jml87 View Post
I seriously love Lombardi as GM. There's never been a point where I've thought a move he made was stupid and the moves he does make I really thought they needed. It's so refreshing when all the other GMs of teams I root are absolute idiots most of the time.
Trading for, and then re-signing Cloutier stand out as some bad moves by Lombardi.

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04-12-2013, 03:07 PM
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Aww, I was wanting to see if Edmonton or Calgary was at the bottom

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04-12-2013, 03:09 PM
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Bryan Murray is extremely underrated. One of the best in the biz IMO.

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04-12-2013, 03:09 PM
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I wouldn't trade Dean for anyone.

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04-12-2013, 03:14 PM
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kingsfan
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Trading for, and then re-signing Cloutier stand out as some bad moves by Lombardi.
Totally agree. While I am a DL supporter for sure, he's not flawless. And generally speaking, his first round draft record isn't very good either (not BAD, but not great). Still, I'd put him fourth on that list, from what was listed there.

I also would have swapped Bowman for Armstrong. I don't think Armstrong's done anything to be labelled the 8th best GM in the elague.

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04-12-2013, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Trading for, and then re-signing Cloutier stand out as some bad moves by Lombardi.
I am telling you, that was part of hiring Crawford.

Crawford wanted his guy and goal and sold Lombardi that Cloutier was a competitive guy and would help change the losing culture and the cliques in the locker room

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04-12-2013, 03:37 PM
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kingsfan
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I am telling you, that was part of hiring Crawford.

Crawford wanted his guy and goal and sold Lombardi that Cloutier was a competitive guy and would help change the losing culture and the cliques in the locker room
While I agree it was likely part of the Crawford hire, really all that situation was a double whiff for DL in the two most critical areas, behind the bench and in net.

Thankfully he more than fixed that problem, and quickly too.

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04-12-2013, 03:40 PM
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Dean has made quite a few bad moves, but not very many over the last two years. Bringing in Moreau and Hunter wasn't a good decision, but that's it since the Richards trade IMO.

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04-12-2013, 03:44 PM
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IMO, Chiarelli should be the #1 GM hands down. Lombardi is right where he should be; Lou would be #5 on my list.

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04-12-2013, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Dean has made quite a few bad moves, but not very many over the last two years. Bringing in Moreau and Hunter wasn't a good decision, but that's it since the Richards trade IMO.
Agreed, though I also like how he knew enough to correct those mistakes instead of trying to ride them for the full season. Took some guts to cut two NHL veterans with a combined 1,375 NHL games (and an additional 60 playoff games) in favor of two kids with a combined 6 NHL games heading into the stretch run during a season in which we were outside the playoffs at the time of those changes and DL very likely feeling heat from above.

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04-12-2013, 04:00 PM
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Most of Lombardi's bad moves has been through UFA signings rather than trades. Even though we won the Cup, the Penner move is bad. Teubert might never make it, but the 1st turned into Klefbom, who recently signed a deal with the Oilers and they are high on.

Carter for Johnson was a great deal. The Richards deal still bothers me a bit, not because of Schenn, but because what Simmonds became...but again, Richards was a monster in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs.

I always thought that Chiarelli is a solid GM who makes solid trades. A name not mentioned is Dave Nonis. He is behind most of Toronto's moves (even when Burke was there) and stole Luongo when he was in Vancouver. Had some success in Vancouver (one playoff run in three seasons) and now his first full year in Toronto they are playoff bound. On that behind the scenes NHL show a few seasons back it looked like he was doing all the work for Burke in the Phaneuf trade. He seems like a solid trader.

Holland is the man everyone looks up to. Lou in NJ hasn't achieved much in a few years and made some questional trades and UFA signings.

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04-12-2013, 04:05 PM
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Dean has made quite a few bad moves, but not very many over the last two years. Bringing in Moreau and Hunter wasn't a good decision, but that's it since the Richards trade IMO.
I agree with this. The championship has shut all the nay sayers (sometime this was/is me) up.
If we had not won the cup last year he would not be top 10.

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04-12-2013, 04:29 PM
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My biggest criticism of Lombardi was his trepidation of acquiring a player whose specific skill was scoring goals. He seemed to always look for "character" as evidenced by his quote of wanting a team with 20 Mike Ricci's. That is until reality hit him in the face and he saw that this team couldn't score worth a damn last season and he had the cajones to finally make a big move to bring in a legit goal scorer, one they needed badly.

Sometimes you wonder if GM's grow too attached to players they acquire. Remember, Jack Johnson was one of Lombardi's earliest moves as Kings GM and was one of those players he looked at as the backbone of the franchise and was the first young defenseman he brought in to the organization for them to build around. If he didn't make that trade for Jeff Carter, Lombardi would probably be jobless and who knows how far the Kings would have gone in the playoffs (or if they wouldn't made the playoffs) without making that trade.

While the Sutter hiring and the decision to bring up Dwight King and Jordan Nolan really helped the team to finally have some depth on all four lines, it was the Carter acquisition that really pushed this team over the hump. I think this past season was a new learning experience for Lombardi and we saw a side of him that we hadn't in the past where they often looked to make low risk moves that usually netted low results.

And he's still facing new challenges today given how the team has had to bounce back without two of their top defensive dmen and how he's lost a number of assets he had accumulated in the past to waivers (Hickey) and trades that he had to make (Loktionov wanting out). His job is safe so long as he keeps replenishing those losses, finds some gems outside of the 1st round, and continues to build and maintain a Cup contending team. That's what has helped a guy like Holland or Lamoriello be so highly regarded as a couple of the smartest minds in the business. Lombardi has ways to go to get to that class but he's close to getting there.

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04-12-2013, 04:59 PM
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Most of Lombardi's bad moves has been through UFA signings rather than trades. Even though we won the Cup, the Penner move is bad. Teubert might never make it, but the 1st turned into Klefbom, who recently signed a deal with the Oilers and they are high on.

Carter for Johnson was a great deal. The Richards deal still bothers me a bit, not because of Schenn, but because what Simmonds became...but again, Richards was a monster in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs.

I always thought that Chiarelli is a solid GM who makes solid trades. A name not mentioned is Dave Nonis. He is behind most of Toronto's moves (even when Burke was there) and stole Luongo when he was in Vancouver. Had some success in Vancouver (one playoff run in three seasons) and now his first full year in Toronto they are playoff bound. On that behind the scenes NHL show a few seasons back it looked like he was doing all the work for Burke in the Phaneuf trade. He seems like a solid trader.

Holland is the man everyone looks up to. Lou in NJ hasn't achieved much in a few years and made some questional trades and UFA signings.
Simmonds has already hit his peak and I'm not sure Schenn has a great hockey IQ.

Not one mention of Holmgren on that list that I could see. A lot of Flyer fans act like he's a genius.

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04-12-2013, 05:01 PM
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I am telling you, that was part of hiring Crawford.

Crawford wanted his guy and goal and sold Lombardi that Cloutier was a competitive guy and would help change the losing culture and the cliques in the locker room
So why did he re-sign him?

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