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Should we trade Stastny/ROR? Or keep BIG 3 together?

View Poll Results: What to do with center situation?
Keep BIG 3 together (Stastny, Duchene, O'Reilly), build team around those guys. 31 27.93%
Trade O'Reilly, Re-sign Stastny, try to get good pieces back for ROR in a trade. 8 7.21%
Trade Stastny next trade deadline or Draft for good defenseman or winger. 54 48.65%
Trade O'Reilly AND Stastny, start re-building again as Matt Duchene #1 center. 18 16.22%
Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-12-2013, 05:38 AM
  #126
CB Joe
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It depends who we draft. If we get Jones or Drouin, try and keep the 3 centers. If we get MacKinnon, we may have the option of trading Stastny and O'Reilly.

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04-12-2013, 11:48 AM
  #127
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In my opinion avs shouldnt have matched the offer sheet for ROR

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04-12-2013, 01:17 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by oilers2k10 View Post
In my opinion avs shouldnt have matched the offer sheet for ROR
To put it simply:

You're dead wrong.

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04-12-2013, 01:21 PM
  #129
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04-12-2013, 01:32 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. No need to be aggressive about it.
Unless his post was edited, I don't see anything wrong with that. The guest offered zero justification for his opinion, so why should Ivan?

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04-12-2013, 02:08 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by oilers2k10 View Post
In my opinion avs shouldnt have matched the offer sheet for ROR
I love how short sighted people are with comments like this. So... Calgary would still have sold off Iginla and Jaybo, and would also most likely be at the bottom of the standings with O'Reilly?



The bad part is, I can't honestly say that I haven't seen quite a few comments like this in general, and even from a couple Avs fans.

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04-12-2013, 02:13 PM
  #132
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It's obviously pretty hypothetical, but I would be shocked if they made those trades and were battling us for last place, if they had brought in O'Reilly. Of course they might not have ended up with him anyway, so who knows.

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04-12-2013, 02:19 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
I love how short sighted people are with comments like this. So... Calgary would still have sold off Iginla and Jaybo, and would also most likely be at the bottom of the standings with O'Reilly?



The bad part is, I can't honestly say that I haven't seen quite a few comments like this in general, and even from a couple Avs fans.
Once again, it's not an unfair discussion if you feel a top three pick is worth more than him. The problem with it is not factoring in O'Reilly on their team though.

O'Reilly would have been in Columbus, Avs would have had Calgary's 1st/3rd and the real question is A. Would they have sold off assets? I see no reason why not, at the very least Iggy. B. Would they be where they are now? There's no answer there.

Truth be told, if Calgary offered their picks today for him, I'd be very uncertain. At the time though we made the right decision, no doubt there.

It's not a fair argument for anyone to be using today's knowledge of the Flame's pick however, that's hindsight logic.

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04-12-2013, 02:19 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
I love how short sighted people are with comments like this. So... Calgary would still have sold off Iginla and Jaybo, and would also most likely be at the bottom of the standings with O'Reilly?



The bad part is, I can't honestly say that I haven't seen quite a few comments like this in general, and even from a couple Avs fans.
Why not? As good as he's played, he hasn't been able to lift the Avs up. In fact, we've fallen in the standings since he re-joined the team. What makes you think he'd have lifted the Flames up from the dregs?

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04-12-2013, 02:20 PM
  #135
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Jamie McGinn needs to have that season first. He's been playing with two superstars most of the season and has subpar statistics, along with a team worst minus-13 rating. Along with his inconsistent physicality, he's having a textbook "tweener" season.

Getting back to the context of this thread, I certainly hope Avalanche management doesn't feel the need to move Paul Stastny or any other player in order to afford the aforementioned McGinn and Varlamov.
You know it's weird... In McGinn's history he's had one other odd ball seasons where his shooting percentage is absurdly low. In 2010-11 his shooting percentage was 1.6% over 49 games with 33 shots. Every other season it was 11.5-14%, when hes on hes a goal scorer and he was a goal scorer in junior with seasons of 46G in 68GP and 29G in 51GP his final two seasons of junior.

Now this is just speculation, but there was a story about him having shoulder and/or back issues that stunted him while he was trying to make the NHL. He had to do quite a bit of strength training to reenforce the muscles in that area.

Now we also know that this off-season he didn't really train as well as he could of. He wasn't completely out of shape but he did come in a bit bigger (IE all of our fat jokes). We also know that last year at the end of the year he had some minor issues with an injury.

I'd say McGinn is due for another hard off-season training, and we might see a resurgence in his shooting percentage if he does so. So I'm willing to be patient with him to some extent and see what he does next year before I write him off as a tweener to be honest.

Next year will be a contract year and it's on him to take his conditioning a little more seriously if he wants to earn a bigger contract. Something tells me that's exactly what's going to happen.

The nice thing about McGinn is that while hes in the lineup, and not producing goals, he still has an impact on the game with effort and physicality. Which makes it a lot easier to be patient with him vs with Jones who just seems to be in neutral 8 out of 10 games hes in the lineup.

I've got homer glasses on a bit but it's just an observation and speculation on my part. We'll see if I'm right next year...

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04-12-2013, 02:29 PM
  #136
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Why not? As good as he's played, he hasn't been able to lift the Avs up. In fact, we've fallen in the standings since he re-joined the team. What makes you think he'd have lifted the Flames up from the dregs?
I just cant believe that if the Avalanche didn't match the OS, and if O'Reilly was in fact allowed to play in Calgary (not having to be put on Waivers) that Calgary would still be in this position.

Would they be in the Playoff Hunt? I don't know if I'd go as far as to say that, but I don't think that they'd be in the basement, tied for last place in the NHL.

But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. But I don't blame O'Reilly for this season....the wheels just fell off the bus, and in a shortened season like this one, you go on a losing streak like the Avs had, that's it, season is done, you cannot logistically hope to come back from that.

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04-12-2013, 02:34 PM
  #137
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It all depends on the locker room. I don't believe that the rest of the team isn't a bit pissed off at ROR for holding out. Things might be better now, but I imagine they were pissed at him, but I wouldn't trade him i don't think.

I would however trade Statsny. He's a good player, but he's grossly overpaid. He has a higher cap hit than both Kane and Toews and there is no way he's better than they are.

But, a lot of it depends on who the Avs draft.

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04-12-2013, 02:46 PM
  #138
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I just cant believe that if the Avalanche didn't match the OS, and if O'Reilly was in fact allowed to play in Calgary (not having to be put on Waivers) that Calgary would still be in this position.

Would they be in the Playoff Hunt? I don't know if I'd go as far as to say that, but I don't think that they'd be in the basement, tied for last place in the NHL.

But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. But I don't blame O'Reilly for this season....the wheels just fell off the bus, and in a shortened season like this one, you go on a losing streak like the Avs had, that's it, season is done, you cannot logistically hope to come back from that.
I would not have expected the Avs to fall farther down the ranks after ROR signed. But it has happened. It could have happened in Calgary just as easily.

I don't blame O'Reilly for this season either. Many things contributed to our lousy season. I do, however, attribute some of that to ROR's holdout.

I still don't know if I'd rather have ROR or the picks. If I knew for a fact that ROR would re-sign a long term deal, I'd rather have him than the picks. But for all I know, he wants out of Denver, and is just biding his time until he can leave. If he has a bad year next year -- it happens to a lot of guys -- the Avs might not want to offer him the 6.5 QO. And other teams might offer less than the picks we could have gotten. If we had taken the picks this year, we can be reasonably sure that they would still be Avalanche assets next year (not saying they would be in the NHL...) Would either of the picks ever be as good as ROR is? Who knows. Would they be better than ROR? Who knows. Will ROR be markedly better than he is right now? Who knows.

Again, though... If I knew for a fact that ROR wanted to stay in Denver, and if I knew that Avs management could swallow their pride after the last negotiations, I'd choose ROR.

But those are big "Ifs". It's a huge risk.

I can certainly understand some having the opinion that the Avs would be better off with the picks. And I don't see where it's fair to say that those with that opinion are simply "dead wrong".

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04-12-2013, 02:48 PM
  #139
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It all depends on the locker room. I don't believe that the rest of the team isn't a bit pissed off at ROR for holding out. Things might be better now, but I imagine they were pissed at him, but I wouldn't trade him i don't think.

I would however trade Statsny. He's a good player, but he's grossly overpaid. He has a higher cap hit than both Kane and Toews and there is no way he's better than they are.

But, a lot of it depends on who the Avs draft.
I think it depends more on whether or not the Avs and O'Reilly can come to an agreement on a long term extension, and on what we can get for Stastny in a trade.

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04-12-2013, 03:55 PM
  #140
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Once again, it's not an unfair discussion if you feel a top three pick is worth more than him. The problem with it is not factoring in O'Reilly on their team though.

O'Reilly would have been in Columbus, Avs would have had Calgary's 1st/3rd and the real question is A. Would they have sold off assets? I see no reason why not, at the very least Iggy. B. Would they be where they are now? There's no answer there.

Truth be told, if Calgary offered their picks today for him, I'd be very uncertain. At the time though we made the right decision, no doubt there.

It's not a fair argument for anyone to be using today's knowledge of the Flame's pick however, that's hindsight logic.
This is pretty much how I feel, as it stands I'd take a top 3 pick in this years draft over O'Reilly. However I don't really believe that their first round pick would be top 3 with O'Reilly on their roster.

There is an argument over O'Reilly vs one of Drouin, Mackinnon, Jones... But my opinion that their pick wouldn't be as high negates that discussion for me. It's not wrong, IMO just pointless to discuss.

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04-12-2013, 03:58 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
This is pretty much how I feel, as it stands I'd take a top 3 pick in this years draft over O'Reilly. However I don't really believe that their first round pick would be top 3 with O'Reilly on their roster.

There is an argument over O'Reilly vs one of Drouin, Mackinnon, Jones... But my opinion that their pick wouldn't be as high negates that discussion for me. It's not wrong, IMO just pointless to discuss.
But he wouldn't have landed in Calgary right? He would have gone through waivers.

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04-12-2013, 04:14 PM
  #142
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But he wouldn't have landed in Calgary right? He would have gone through waivers.
No one knew that was the case though, Calgary or Colorado. So with that in mind... Would Calgary have fought it and won? Would they still have sold off players knowing their pick (In our hands) would only be higher even without O'Reilly?

Especially considering how that team has been managed in the past and even whats being said now, I don't think they would have but who knows really. (They think they are going to make the playoffs next year...)

That question is definitely a wrench...

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04-12-2013, 04:17 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
No one knew that was the case though, Calgary or Colorado. So with that in mind... Would Calgary have fought it and won? Would they still have sold off players knowing their pick (In our hands) would only be higher even without O'Reilly?

Especially considering how that team has been managed in the past and even whats being said now, I don't think they would have but who knows really. (They think they are going to make the playoffs next year...)

That question is definitely a wrench...
I think it has been confirmed that he would have had to pass waivers.

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04-12-2013, 04:23 PM
  #144
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I say keep them all. Shoulda, coulda, woulda with matching ROR's offer from the flames. There's no use crying about it. The Avs matched and we have ROR for now. Nothing should be done until either ROR or Staz signs a long term deal. Then we get what we can for the other if that guy won't sign.

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04-12-2013, 05:07 PM
  #145
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To go along with the topic of this thread, here is what next season could look like if we added two or three free-agents, and kept Stastny. In an attempt to fill out our top three lines, and assuming we draft Jones.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Jamie McGinn ($1.750m) / Matt Duchene ($3.500m) / P-A Parenteau ($4.000m)
Gabriel Landeskog ($3.575m) / Ryan O'Reilly ($5.000m) / Steve Downie ($2.650m)
David Jones ($4.000m) / Paul Stastny ($6.600m) / Nathan Horton ($5.000m)
Cody McLeod ($1.150m) / John Mitchell ($1.100m) / Mark Olver ($0.600m)
DEFENSEMEN
Mark Streit ($4.000m) / Erik Johnson ($3.750m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.500m) / Seth Jones ($0.950m)
Jan Hejda ($3.250m) / Tyson Barrie ($0.900m)
Shane O'Brien ($2.000m) / Matt Hunwick ($1.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Semyon Varlamov ($2.833m)
Jean-Sebastien Giguere ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,230,833; BONUSES: $2,710,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3,779,167

* Greg Zanon bought out.
* Traded Ryan Wilson (He continues to be injury prone, but would be the easiest to trade.)
* Mark Streit signed as free agent for 3 years @ $4,000,000
* Rob Scuderi signed as free agent for 2 years @ $3,500,000.
* Nathan Horton signed as free agent for 4 years @ $5,000,000.
* Seth Jones signed for $950,000, actual cap hit.

Seth Jones's salary would look higher with a 3.5-3.7M cap hit but it would fall into the bonus cushion, Landeskog's actual cap hit is 925,000. By the 2014-15 season the cap should be back up to 70M and we could either trade D. Jones or use our second compliance buyout on him. So they could give him a chance to turn it around next season, unless someone actually wanted him this off-season in a trade.

If we needed a bit more space during next season one of Hunwick or O'Brien could be moved at that time or during this off-season as well.

I'd love to see us be this active in free-agency, but I have my doubts just like everyone else. Adding two recent Stanley Cup champions, and another veteran in Streit could do a lot for the locker room environment as well as the actual on ice product.

Below is the difference if the cap was 70M in 2014-15, it gives a good indication of how much we would have to give raises to Duchene, Landeskog, Varly, and McGinn. The bonus's would be similar because of whoever we draft, with Landeskog's falling off.

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,230,833; BONUSES: $2,710,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $9,479,167 2014-15 off-season (This is with D. Jones salary still on the books, same roster as above just with the cap adjusted.)

I'm not a fan of HockeyNews but here is a story about the Avs that mentions the possibility of Scuderi and going after some veteran defensive help. I'd love to see (possibly)all three of our young right handed defenders playing along side capable veterans. http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...or-change.html


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 04-12-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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04-12-2013, 05:29 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
To go along with the topic of this thread, here is what next season could look like if we added two or three free-agents, and kept Stastny. In an attempt to fill out our top three lines, and assuming we draft Jones.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Jamie McGinn ($1.750m) / Matt Duchene ($3.500m) / P-A Parenteau ($4.000m)
Gabriel Landeskog ($3.575m) / Ryan O'Reilly ($5.000m) / Steve Downie ($2.650m)
David Jones ($4.000m) / Paul Stastny ($6.600m) / Nathan Horton ($5.000m)
Cody McLeod ($1.150m) / John Mitchell ($1.100m) / Mark Olver ($0.600m)
DEFENSEMEN
Mark Streit ($4.000m) / Erik Johnson ($3.750m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.500m) / Seth Jones ($0.950m)
Jan Hejda ($3.250m) / Tyson Barrie ($0.900m)
Shane O'Brien ($2.000m) / Matt Hunwick ($1.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Semyon Varlamov ($2.833m)
Jean-Sebastien Giguere ($1.500m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,230,833; BONUSES: $2,710,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3,779,167

* Greg Zanon bought out.
* Traded Ryan Wilson (He continues to be injury prone, but would be the easiest to trade.)
* Mark Streit signed as free agent for 3 years @ $4,000,000
* Rob Scuderi signed as free agent for 2 years @ $3,500,000.
* Nathan Horton signed as free agent for 4 years @ $5,000,000.
* Seth Jones signed for $950,000, actual cap hit.

Seth Jones's salary would look higher with a 3.5-3.7M cap hit but it would fall into the bonus cushion, Landeskog's actual cap hit is 925,000. By the 2014-15 season the cap should be back up to 70M and we could either trade D. Jones or use our second compliance buyout on him. So they could give him a chance to turn it around next season, unless someone actually wanted him this off-season in a trade.

If we needed a bit more space during next season one of Hunwick or O'Brien could be moved at that time or during this off-season as well.

I'd love to see us be this active in free-agency, but I have my doubts just like everyone else. Adding two recent Stanley Cup champions, and another veteran in Streit could do a lot for the locker room environment as well as the actual on ice product.

Below is the difference if the cap was 70M in 2014-15, it gives a good indication of how much we would have to give raises to Duchene, Landeskog, Varly, and McGinn. The bonus's would be similar because of whoever we draft, with Landeskog's falling off.

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,230,833; BONUSES: $2,710,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $9,479,167 2014-15 off-season (This is with D. Jones salary still on the books, same roster as above just with the cap adjusted.

I'm not a fan of HockeyNews but here is a story about the Avs that mentions the possibility of Scuderi and going after some veteran defensive help. I'd love to see (possibly)all three of our young right handed defenders playing along side capable veterans. http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...or-change.html
Looks great line-up to me. At least compared to what we have now.

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04-12-2013, 05:34 PM
  #147
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I think it has been confirmed that he would have had to pass waivers.
It's not confirmed if the league would have been pressured to over turn the ruling though since it never got to that point, and since the league had not provided the final CBA document to teams. Calgary would have had a pretty good argument IMO, even though they should have known anyway.

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04-12-2013, 05:42 PM
  #148
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It's not confirmed if the league would have been pressured to over turn the ruling though since it never got to that point, and since the league had not provided the final CBA document to teams. Calgary would have had a pretty good argument IMO, even though they should have known anyway.
Yeah you never know how that would of turned out, also considering the heat it would bring considering the fact that Calgary is a Canadian team.

It was never confirmed, but I don't believe Sherman (Or anyone in the front office for that matter) knew about O'Reilly having to pass through waivers.

I know one thing... It wouldn't pay for the NHL to allow one of their larger fan bases to be disenfranchised by a unforeseen loophole, that happened during a time when the rules were still being finalized. The NHL and Calgary would have had outs using this argument.

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04-12-2013, 05:50 PM
  #149
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Yeah you never know how that would of turned out, also considering the heat it would bring considering the fact that Calgary is a Canadian team.

It was never confirmed, but I don't believe Sherman (Or anyone in the front office for that matter) knew about O'Reilly having to pass through waivers.

I know one thing... It wouldn't pay for the NHL to allow one of their larger fan bases to be disenfranchised by a unforeseen loophole, that happened during a time when the rules were still being finalized. The NHL and Calgary would have had outs using this argument.
Yea, it's definitely safe to assume the Avs and Clagary both had no idea.

Like you though, I think it would be a pretty tough bill to sell taking a Canadian teams 1st rounder away for nothing, when they haven't provided the actual finalized CBA to the teams yet. Calgary would have fought that tooth and nail all season, and O'Reilly probably would have been caught in limbo not being allowed to play for any teams until it was resolved. Possibly by just nullifying the offer sheet and putting O'Reilly and the Avs back at square one.

Would have been one of the biggest messes in the NHL since the Lindros trade.

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04-12-2013, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Yea, it's definitely safe to assume the Avs and Clagary both had no idea.
Nor did the other 4 or 5 teams that sent offer sheets to him.

Quote:
Like you though, I think it would be a pretty tough bill to sell taking a Canadian teams 1st rounder away for nothing, when they haven't provided the actual finalized CBA to the teams yet. Calgary would have fought that tooth and nail all season, and O'Reilly probably would have been caught in limbo not being allowed to play for any teams until it was resolved. Possibly by just nullifying the offer sheet and putting O'Reilly and the Avs back at square one.

Would have been one of the biggest messes in the NHL since the Lindros trade.
It's pretty safe to assume that Calgary would have fought this. It may or may not have ended up in the courts. Due to the lockout having been recently lifted, and the CBA not being completely finalized and teams not knowing every single little minute detail, I also feel it's safe to assume the NHL would have given in and O'Reilly would have remained with Calgary. Think of the bad press that it would cause the league.

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