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Old
04-12-2013, 05:52 PM
  #251
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by Miz View Post
Realistically, rangers have 3 options, sign him, trade him, or lose him for nothing. Re-signing him is going to cost upward of 6 million. I don't think any of us want to trade him, but as many posters pointed out, we might not have a choice.

I don't think Carolina does a deal where a top 5 pick is involved, although if any team were to move their pick, i could see them being the team that does it.
A deal like this would obviously make us weaker right now, but potentially stronger in the long run. Is it worth the risk? Who knows...i'd rather stick to playing GM on nhl13 than be in charge of having to make decisions like this.

On a side note though, I know the Staals are all close, but it doesn't seem like marc really cares if he plays with his bros or not. He played in Sudbury instead of Peterborough and plays D instead of C, he chose his own path instead of doing what jordan did and that is to be like big bro eric. Im sure it would intrigue him but it wouldn't be a deal breaker in my eyes.
This is the kind of discussion I was hoping for when starting this thread.

What would NYR have to add w/Staal to get a top 5 pick from Canes....

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04-12-2013, 05:59 PM
  #252
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I'd trade Staal straight across for the #5 pick, but not add to it.

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Old
04-12-2013, 06:02 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I understand why Carolina would be interested in trading for Staal, but the obsession that some Rangers fans have with shipping him off to Carolina is mindboggling.

The whole "well one of the defenseman has to go so why not Staal?" argument just goes to show how undervalued Staal is. Staal is the best defenseman on this team, Girardi and Del Zotto aren't even in the same class as him. McDonagh is close but not there yet. Sather drove Staal to his doctor's appointments - it's quite obvious the Rangers organization view him as a very important player and they aren't going to part with him unless he wants out.
Staal is the best pure shutdown D overall in the league, IMO.
That said, that is not the issue.
The issue is there is a price point which becomes more acute with the dwindling cap.
It would be nice if we could pay Nash about a mil less and repurpose that money, not that Rick isn't earning every penny, but we have limitations on what we can do is what I'm saying.

So besides the obvious: recover Richards ridiculous contract thru amnesty, shave a bit off Biron, move Boyle if there is a good enough return, plead w/Henrik to give us half a mil or so hometown discount, there really aren't too many options. There is not a lot of fat to trim.

At that point, not now but in the near future, we may be forced to move either Staal or Girardi or even both.
Both may have it's merits because you are offering a L-R top pair as a package, getting more together than both separately.

The statements about Staal/Girardi, without any suggestion from me, by the way --- admit it, I was just way ahead of the curve on this --- is not based on any negative view of these guys.

It's based solely on the fact that as most senior D, they earn/will earn more than younger counterparts, not only on talent and ability, but as a cumulative status as a veteran. WE would LOVE to pay them, but the league has caps we gotta work with. The only way around this would be to cut from elsewhere, but again, there is not that much to cut...

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04-12-2013, 06:05 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I'd trade Staal straight across for the #5 pick, but not add to it.
Fair enough, but you have to give to get.
I'm not sure Staal for #5 overall gets the job done.

Anybody else? Staal for #5 overall.... do rangers have to add? Or is it enough?

speculate and if add, feel free to suggest what that might be, even though the obvious is if not Carolina, what is added might differ from team to team in the fifth position.

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04-12-2013, 06:08 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Fair enough, but you have to give to get.
I'm not sure Staal for #5 overall gets the job done.

Anybody else? Staal for #5 overall.... do rangers have to add? Or is it enough?

speculate and if add, feel free to suggest what that might be, even though the obvious is if not Carolina, what is added might differ from team to team in the fifth position.
Big concern with the trade is that the Canes will be in our division. Wouldn't like to see Staal for the next decade in the same division.

But if the opportunity arises to draft a Jonathan Drouin, I'd do it.

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04-12-2013, 08:51 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Big concern with the trade is that the Canes will be in our division. Wouldn't like to see Staal for the next decade in the same division.

But if the opportunity arises to draft a Jonathan Drouin, I'd do it.
Does staal have 2 yrs left? I was thinking they don't even think about moving him till the last yr of the feal

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04-12-2013, 09:22 PM
  #257
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I would not move Staal. You're not going to get a Staal back for him. I'd rather move any D but McD over Staal. Hold on to your best players.

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04-12-2013, 10:12 PM
  #258
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5th Overall Picks since 2000

2000: Raffi Torres
2001: Stanislav Chistov
2002: Ryan Whitney
2003: Thomas Vanek
2004: Blake Wheeler
2005: Carey Price
2006: Phil Kessel
2007: Karl Alzner
2008: Luke Schenn
2009: Brayden Schenn
2010: Nino Niederreiter
2011: Ryan Strome

Considering time it takes guys to get in the league, I keep Staal

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04-12-2013, 10:36 PM
  #259
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i got a quick question when was the last time a player left NY.. players dont/want (to) leave here, they come here.. its the best city, best venue and biggest stage in the world with rich sports history.. so to speculate staal wants to go to carolina is off.. J. Staal left bc he didn't want to and was tired of playing 3rd fiddle (played huge part) in Pitt.. he wanted to play in a bigger role and prob had some options on the table and picked his bros squad..

to speculate Staal, Mcd even Girardi will be traded is as real as Dennis Rodman bringing peace between US and Korea..

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04-12-2013, 11:04 PM
  #260
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So many sweet tarts.

6M or lose him.

This place is a ****ing madhouse hahha.

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04-13-2013, 12:45 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
i got a quick question when was the last time a player left NY.. players dont/want (to) leave here, they come here.. its the best city, best venue and biggest stage in the world with rich sports history.. so to speculate staal wants to go to carolina is off.. J. Staal left bc he didn't want to and was tired of playing 3rd fiddle (played huge part) in Pitt.. he wanted to play in a bigger role and prob had some options on the table and picked his bros squad..

to speculate Staal, Mcd even Girardi will be traded is as real as Dennis Rodman bringing peace between US and Korea..
I have cheered and followed the Rangers my entire life, so I think I can say that many players, but not all, want to go to NYR. I am quite sure that some players, who want to win a Cup may choose other teams, be they bigger or smaller hockey markets. Not sure that being in one of the greatest cities in the world is necessarily a draw for all players. It can have more to do with the organization, than the city itself.

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Old
04-13-2013, 02:38 AM
  #262
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no thanks to the 5th overall pick. Carolina has no one I'm interested in. We'd have to pull a 3 way for me to go through with that trade. Remember when we used to talk about "I'd never trade Staal unless Ovechkin/Malkin was coming back the other way." He'll recover and he'll still be freakin awesome and you'd give that away for a draft pick that could end up a lesser player? Of the former 5th overalls, I think Vanek is the only player I might want for Staal and that is only IF we were in a position where we had to trade him. If you think we'd have to add more than Staal for a 5th overall pick, you are vastly undervaluing Staal.

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04-13-2013, 07:33 AM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDubiZib View Post
5th Overall Picks since 2000

2000: Raffi Torres
2001: Stanislav Chistov
2002: Ryan Whitney
2003: Thomas Vanek
2004: Blake Wheeler
2005: Carey Price
2006: Phil Kessel
2007: Karl Alzner
2008: Luke Schenn
2009: Brayden Schenn
2010: Nino Niederreiter
2011: Ryan Strome


Considering time it takes guys to get in the league, I keep Staal
The last two don't count, because it was the IceHoles.

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Old
04-13-2013, 07:57 AM
  #264
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I'm sorry, but anybody advocating a trade involving Marc Staal (especially to the Canes who will be a divisional rival) is out of their mind.

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04-13-2013, 08:45 AM
  #265
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The reconstruction began at the deadline. They need to figure out where they are going. Cap dropping. Flat cap. Many free agents. Lundqvist,Callahan and Girardi can be re-signed in July. You would expect Henrik and Callahan to be re-signed this summer. Maybe Girardi too. They have many tough decisions to make. Its better this way. It forces them to use their brain and replenish the team. Not just add more players every year like its fantasy hockey.

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04-13-2013, 09:22 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The reconstruction began at the deadline. They need to figure out where they are going. Cap dropping. Flat cap. Many free agents. Lundqvist,Callahan and Girardi can be re-signed in July. You would expect Henrik and Callahan to be re-signed this summer. Maybe Girardi too. They have many tough decisions to make. Its better this way. It forces them to use their brain and replenish the team. Not just add more players every year like its fantasy hockey.
I agree.. we'll prob end of trading Pyatt and maybe/maybe Asham (haley 600k is oneway next yr) free up some cash.. but we made our trade to restructure the team the way we want it.. Prob gear up for 14'.. much better FA class thats for sure.. Pavelski, Stansy, Kessel, Malkin etc..

Richards buyout is possible this summer (depends are RFAs) but most likely 14' due everyone UFAs..

Lockup hank ASAP this summer or before going into next yr.. What do you think he'll cost 7yr-42m?

Callahan and Girardi will soon follow..

AGAIN no way Staal will be traded, sorry i hate seeing that on this thread hahah.. hes on a sweetheart contract.. if he was a UFA this summer he'd get 5-6m AAV easily.. Which we'll have to pay next contract forsure!

do you guys think Brass could be our number 2c going into next yr if we buyout richards?

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04-13-2013, 09:34 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
I agree.. we'll prob end of trading Pyatt and maybe/maybe Asham (haley 600k is oneway next yr) free up some cash.. but we made our trade to restructure the team the way we want it.. Prob gear up for 14'.. much better FA class thats for sure.. Pavelski, Stansy, Kessel, Malkin etc..

Richards buyout is possible this summer (depends are RFAs) but most likely 14' due everyone UFAs..

Lockup hank ASAP this summer or before going into next yr.. What do you think he'll cost 7yr-42m?

Callahan and Girardi will soon follow..

AGAIN no way Staal will be traded, sorry i hate seeing that on this thread hahah.. hes on a sweetheart contract.. if he was a UFA this summer he'd get 5-6m AAV easily.. Which we'll have to pay next contract forsure!

do you guys think Brass could be our number 2c going into next yr if we buyout richards?
I think your right in saying the move to restructure the team was made at the deadline so I really think the team will be pretty much the same except Pyatt is gone to clear salary. I think Asham stays. Boyle should go for a pick and/or cheaper alternative. Similar to the Rupp/Powe deal

Richards is likely bought out but not next yr it will be the yr after that. So for next yr much of the same, have a regular camp

C- Stepan, Richards, Brassard, cheaper alternative. Lindberg or another Halpern type
LW- Nash, Clowe, Hagelin, Powe, Haley
RW- Callahan, Dorsett, Asham......that other spot is 1 of Zuc,Kreider, Miller, Fasth

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Old
04-13-2013, 09:37 AM
  #268
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Unless you believe the #5 pick can move right into the NHL the next year and make a big impact then it's not enough for Staal. And it's not necessarily a case of who is the best player now? or who will be the best player 5 years down the road? Do the Rangers want to make another real run (or even multiple runs) at a SC within the next 5 years? is the real question. Lateral moves that won't increase our chances or moves like Staal for a pick who will need years of development are not likely to increase those chances. Instead of chasing games then we'll be chasing seasons.

Anyway to me that's why Carolina would have to add to the 1st--not us add more than Staal for it.

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04-13-2013, 09:38 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by AJBergy86 View Post
I'm sorry, but anybody advocating a trade involving Marc Staal (especially to the Canes who will be a divisional rival) is out of their mind.
Came here to post this ^. I don't think people have been watching our defense as of late.

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04-13-2013, 09:46 AM
  #270
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thats what i dont understand.. why would you trade someone, who isn't easily replaceable and who has proved to be a number 1d and all-star in his young career already..

OUR D is the best part about this team... noone of them will be traded its our strength and core of our team.. Noone of thos guys are replaceable and noone you draft will be as effective as the players we have already.. Draft is a crapshoot and we already have MCD who will be a future norris winner, girardi and staal all-stars and DZ who as young as he is has already proved so much!

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Old
04-13-2013, 11:23 AM
  #271
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The Rangers have $20M committed for 14-15. Tagging. The team can't have more money committed for the following season than the current cap. $64.3m is the cap for 13-14. That $20M will increase with new contracts for Stepan,Hagelin and McDonagh. Subtract $6,666,667 for Richards amnesty buyout. The new CBA gives teams flexibility.

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13. Tagged Payroll Room Beginning on March 1 of any League Year (2013/14 League Year and beyond), the Upper Limit shall be increased by 10% for the sole purpose of calculating Tagged Payroll Room.
Page 4 of the MOU

Teams can exceed the upper limit in future commitments for the following season after March 1. The Rangers can have more than $64.3M committed for 14-15. They will still need to be compliant with the upper limit for 14-15 but that's in October 2014. The previous CBA allowed teams to exceed the upper limit by 10% in the summer.

The Rangers can sign their unrestricted free agents for 2014 this summer. The space is there.

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04-13-2013, 11:55 AM
  #272
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You'd ideally like to get Henrik locked up to a new contract, above all else.

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Old
04-13-2013, 12:28 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
thats what i dont understand.. why would you trade someone, who isn't easily replaceable and who has proved to be a number 1d and all-star in his young career already..

OUR D is the best part about this team... noone of them will be traded its our strength and core of our team.. Noone of thos guys are replaceable and noone you draft will be as effective as the players we have already.. Draft is a crapshoot and we already have MCD who will be a future norris winner, girardi and staal all-stars and DZ who as young as he is has already proved so much!
How many times does it need to be said that no one WANTS to trade any of these D before people start to understand?

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Old
04-13-2013, 01:26 PM
  #274
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I agree.. we'll prob end of trading Pyatt and maybe/maybe Asham (haley 600k is oneway next yr) free up some cash.. but we made our trade to restructure the team the way we want it.. Prob gear up for 14'.. much better FA class thats for sure.. Pavelski, Stansy, Kessel, Malkin etc..

Richards buyout is possible this summer (depends are RFAs) but most likely 14' due everyone UFAs..

Lockup hank ASAP this summer or before going into next yr.. What do you think he'll cost 7yr-42m?

Callahan and Girardi will soon follow..

AGAIN no way Staal will be traded, sorry i hate seeing that on this thread hahah.. hes on a sweetheart contract.. if he was a UFA this summer he'd get 5-6m AAV easily.. Which we'll have to pay next contract forsure!

do you guys think Brass could be our number 2c going into next yr if we buyout richards?
Bold = small change, not enough, must do more. Or eventually overwhelmed by cap.

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04-13-2013, 01:32 PM
  #275
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I would not move Staal. You're not going to get a Staal back for him. I'd rather move any D but McD over Staal. Hold on to your best players.
Unarguably, that is the best plan short term.
But short term is a vacuum that is immediate only.
The need to continue develop talent is real. It is the ONLY way to retain quality on a roster against a squeezing cap that forces larger salaries (presumably more talented players) out.

This reality forces a legit question.
Do we keep our best players as suggested to the last possible moment, as suggested, and hope Gordie Clark can get good value on mid level for us?

Or do we try to help him out a bit and increase the odds of draft success by moving some of our more expensive vets?

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