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2013 Draft Discussion Part 2

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Old
04-12-2013, 09:38 PM
  #351
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
For those posters on here that were high on Zadorov here's a report from an OHL scout about his recent play:



Source: Sean Lafortune @SeanLafortune
Good to know there are additional options there.

Between Nurse, Ristolainen, and Zadorov, it seems there should be a decent 2/3-type guy available between picks 6 and 10. Not the franchise type we need, perhaps, but and important supporting piece going forward.

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04-12-2013, 09:39 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Well, I think that part of it is right, but developing a player occurs at the NHL level as well, and a guy like Coburn has shown relatively little progression since coming here (to, uh, put it mildly).

That said, Jones looks like a stud, and I'm sure he would be one here, if we somehow manage to luck our way into winning the lottery.
It's just really hard to make this statement though. We really just don't have enough high picks to indicate a pattern of failure.

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04-12-2013, 09:41 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Oh definitely. If we win the lottery and Jones isn't the pick, the fans here will riot--and rightfully so.
Nah, we need to take the best player. If that is Jones, so be it.

The draft is not the place to fill needs, its the place to increase organizational depth/strength.

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04-12-2013, 10:01 PM
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
For those posters on here that were high on Zadorov here's a report from an OHL scout about his recent play:



Source: Sean Lafortune @SeanLafortune


Prongo is going to owe me that case of beer

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04-12-2013, 10:15 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Haha, apprently not. My bad.
My reply was pretty vague.

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04-12-2013, 10:29 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Nah, we need to take the best player. If that is Jones, so be it.

The draft is not the place to fill needs, its the place to increase organizational depth/strength.
That is correct. You do not reach or you will get screwed every time.

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04-12-2013, 11:09 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
2nd round?

Scouts have him in the 15-25 range and I don't remember hearing anything about his stock dropping
Eh my mistake. Saw two mocks had him placed at 24 and 27. A lot of players drop into the 2nd round. Also even of the is a Russian in NA, the Russian stock also takes a toll on draft. He will prob will go first but just like other 1st round talent like last season (Aberg, Colberg) etc etc, always a chance they drop.

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04-13-2013, 10:10 AM
  #358
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Big night for the draft.

Depending on the results, the Flyers could be as "low" as 1 point from 3rd overall or as "high" as 9th.

VAN v. COL
TB v. WSH
BOS v. CAR
PIT v. FLA
CGY v. EDM (it would be nice if this was a CGY OT win)

EDIT: For what it is worth, if we lose out, we will be at least 5th overall going into the lottery--since CAR would get two points (by virtue of beating us) and CAR and TB play (meaning one team would have to jump the Flyers.


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Old
04-13-2013, 10:21 AM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
That is correct. You do not reach or you will get screwed every time.
Meh. IDK about that. Most of the time I would probably agree you go BPA. But the Flyers have exactly zero prospects that are likely to be a top four defender. Ghost has a shot, but I wouldn't call it likely. If the BPA is a center not named MacKinnon or a wing not named Drouin, I think you go with a Defender over pretty much anyone else in the top ten this year, regardless of BPA. If the BPA is Barkov or Lindholm (or Nichuskin) I think the Flyers would still go with Nurse, Zadorov, Pulock, or Ristolainen. I personally think Barkov and Lindholm are higher ceiling guys than the aforementioned defenders. But the Flyers have no need for a high ceiling center. They have 73 of them. Going BPA is normally the way to go, but not this year with this team.

The Flyers desperately need defensive prospects. Everyone talks about patience and asset management and how poor the Flyers are with those two things. Well taking a "lesser" defenseman instead of the BPA is not bad asset management and is also a sign of patience. Bad asset management and lack of patience would be drafting a Center when you have a glut of centers, then likely trading him or moving him to wing and hoping he fits in. They have to go defense in the first round unless they pick in the top three and Jones is gone.

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04-13-2013, 10:24 AM
  #360
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The BPA thing can get overplayed. I think you take the player with the highest grade--sure--but if two players have similar grades, I don't see a problem with taking organizational need into account.

Thus, based on consensus lists, you probably take Barkov over anyone other than the big three, but you could reasonably take Nurse over Lindholm or Monahan.

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04-13-2013, 10:28 AM
  #361
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I know I'm late to the draft talk as I just looked up the odds scheme and had no idea that we could still get the top pick eventhough it may only be 0.5% chance. That would be so phenomenal.

Also looking at the standings I can't believe that edm has a chance at first overall as well. That is just embarrassing for that franchise although exciting for its fans for at least a few months.

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Old
04-13-2013, 10:30 AM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
That is correct. You do not reach or you will get screwed every time.
How is Seth jones a reach in ANY way shape or form? He is the BPA. No doubt about it.

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Old
04-13-2013, 11:00 AM
  #363
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Does Nurse project to have a significantly better offensive game than Coburn?

EDIT: I mean, than Coburn was projected to have when he was drafted. In other words, how similar are the two players as draft-eligible defensive prospects.

Coburn was viewed as a big, strong, mobile defenseman with questionable offensive upside, right?. Nurse seems to have an edge to his game--his highlight reals are mostly composed of fights--but aren't some of the weaknesses the same?

Despite a few early career signs to the contrary, Coburn never developed his offensive game, but I'm curious as to what in Nurse's game makes him more safely project to an offensive force in the NHL.


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Old
04-13-2013, 11:01 AM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Meh. IDK about that. Most of the time I would probably agree you go BPA. But the Flyers have exactly zero prospects that are likely to be a top four defender. Ghost has a shot, but I wouldn't call it likely. If the BPA is a center not named MacKinnon or a wing not named Drouin, I think you go with a Defender over pretty much anyone else in the top ten this year, regardless of BPA. If the BPA is Barkov or Lindholm (or Nichuskin) I think the Flyers would still go with Nurse, Zadorov, Pulock, or Ristolainen. I personally think Barkov and Lindholm are higher ceiling guys than the aforementioned defenders. But the Flyers have no need for a high ceiling center. They have 73 of them. Going BPA is normally the way to go, but not this year with this team.

The Flyers desperately need defensive prospects. Everyone talks about patience and asset management and how poor the Flyers are with those two things. Well taking a "lesser" defenseman instead of the BPA is not bad asset management and is also a sign of patience. Bad asset management and lack of patience would be drafting a Center when you have a glut of centers, then likely trading him or moving him to wing and hoping he fits in. They have to go defense in the first round unless they pick in the top three and Jones is gone.
I agree, and I don't think the way to address our issues on D is through a trade. The market for d men is ridiculous and we'd have to overpay and give up more than just a top prospect. If we draft another center in the first I really don't see how we're going to improve our D without giving up at least two quality prospects and/or high picks that we need. Especially with where we are this year and who is available. While some of the forwards may have a higher upside than some of the d men you mentioned, I don't think the gap is huge.

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Old
04-13-2013, 11:07 AM
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Does Nurse project to have a significantly better offensive game than Coburn?
Of course

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Old
04-13-2013, 11:17 AM
  #366
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Of course
Yeah, that wasn't phrased well. My question is more about Coburn as a defensive prospect in 2003, not Coburn of today.

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04-13-2013, 11:18 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
The Flyers desperately need defensive prospects. Everyone talks about patience and asset management and how poor the Flyers are with those two things. Well taking a "lesser" defenseman instead of the BPA is not bad asset management and is also a sign of patience. Bad asset management and lack of patience would be drafting a Center when you have a glut of centers, then likely trading him or moving him to wing and hoping he fits in. They have to go defense in the first round unless they pick in the top three and Jones is gone.
Nope. BPA. A sign of patience would be not trading our draft picks, for the next 5 years.

The draft is not the place to fill needs, unless as you say the stars align.

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04-13-2013, 11:20 AM
  #368
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How is Seth jones a reach in ANY way shape or form? He is the BPA. No doubt about it.
hmm, at #1, i think its Mac.

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04-13-2013, 11:21 AM
  #369
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How about this question: who would you rather have, Darnell Nurse or Brandon Gormley?

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Old
04-13-2013, 11:23 AM
  #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
hmm, at #1, i think its Mac.
Most scouts would seem to disagree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
How about this question: who would you rather have, Darnell Nurse or Brandon Gormley?
Nurse seems like the more dynamic player, but he's years away from contributing at an NHL level. Gormley could step in next season and has a similar ceiling--a 2/3 type, right?

That said, I wouldn't move the 6th overall for Gormley, so I have no idea.

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04-13-2013, 11:23 AM
  #371
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How about this question: who would you rather have, Darnell Nurse or Brandon Gormley?
I would say Nurse because we won't need to give up assets if we draft him while Gormley will cost at minimum a decent amount.

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04-13-2013, 11:26 AM
  #372
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I agree, and I don't think the way to address our issues on D is through a trade. The market for d men is ridiculous and we'd have to overpay and give up more than just a top prospect. If we draft another center in the first I really don't see how we're going to improve our D without giving up at least two quality prospects and/or high picks that we need. Especially with where we are this year and who is available. While some of the forwards may have a higher upside than some of the d men you mentioned, I don't think the gap is huge.
We are screwed for next year. Just accept that. Even if we get Jones...the pressure and expectation on him next year would be INSANE to put on a 19 yr old.

Its critical that we start rebuilding the DEPTH of this organization. And that means 3 years + of not trading picks and scouting like mofos and getting hits.

If we drafted say Mac, we season him appropriately, move him up, and if he is the better player when he gets "blocked", trade Schenn or Couts or something for a kings ransom.

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04-13-2013, 11:26 AM
  #373
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I would say Nurse because we won't need to give up assets if we draft him while Gormley will cost at minimum a decent amount.
Agreed.

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04-13-2013, 11:28 AM
  #374
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How about this question: who would you rather have, Darnell Nurse or Brandon Gormley?
Nurse. Much higher upside.

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04-13-2013, 11:30 AM
  #375
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I would say Nurse because we won't need to give up assets if we draft him while Gormley will cost at minimum a decent amount.
I'm guessing that he is hinting at swapping the pick that would be used for Nurse straight across for Gormley.

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Nurse. Much higher upside.
Both are projected as top-pairing-but-not-#1 guys, no?

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