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Who is the most overrated player of all time?

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Old
04-12-2013, 09:36 AM
  #76
pluppe
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Gordie Howe was top five in scoring for twenty consecutive seasons.

Name another player who came close to that.
Nobody comes close to that. It's awesome. But I consider offensive dominance and elite longevity to be different things.

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04-12-2013, 09:44 AM
  #77
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Pavel Datsyuk

Apparently he's the most talented player to ever play the game, yet for some reason can never lead the league in scoring...never won a Hart, never won a player MVP.

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04-12-2013, 09:52 AM
  #78
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Dick Duff.

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04-12-2013, 10:04 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by pluppe View Post
Nobody comes close to that. It's awesome. But I consider offensive dominance and elite longevity to be different things.
In Wayne Gretzky's career-high 215-point season, he was 205% of the #10 scorer; technically #9 as Dale Hawerchuk and Neal Broten tied with 105 points, and was 207% of #11. He was 164% of 4th (Jari Kurri, 131 points) and 175% of 5th (Mike Bossy, 123 points).

In Gordie Howe's career-high 95-point season, he was 215% of the two #10 scorers (Jim McFadden and Fleming MacKell tied with 44) and was 211% of the #9 scorer (Bert Olmstead with 45 points). He was 161% of the #4/5 scorers (Wally Hershegeimer and Alex Delvecchio, 59 points each).

So basically, what you're saying is a player who peaked as dominantly offensively as Gretzky, was a solid two-way player, had the elite longevity of Ray Bourque, and was feared like Probert... is overrated? I'd say calling him less than the best of All-Time is underrating him.

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04-12-2013, 10:05 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by saskganesh View Post
Dick Duff.
This. He's even more overrated than Paul Henderson.

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Old
04-12-2013, 10:08 AM
  #81
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Eric Lindros

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Old
04-12-2013, 11:07 AM
  #82
blogofmike
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
In Wayne Gretzky's career-high 215-point season, he was 205% of the #10 scorer; technically #9 as Dale Hawerchuk and Neal Broten tied with 105 points, and was 207% of #11. He was 164% of 4th (Jari Kurri, 131 points) and 175% of 5th (Mike Bossy, 123 points).

In Gordie Howe's career-high 95-point season, he was 215% of the two #10 scorers (Jim McFadden and Fleming MacKell tied with 44) and was 211% of the #9 scorer (Bert Olmstead with 45 points). He was 161% of the #4/5 scorers (Wally Hershegeimer and Alex Delvecchio, 59 points each).

So basically, what you're saying is a player who peaked as dominantly offensively as Gretzky, was a solid two-way player, had the elite longevity of Ray Bourque, and was feared like Probert... is overrated? I'd say calling him less than the best of All-Time is underrating him.
Though I disagree with using V10 to compare a 6 team league with a 21 team league, I think Howe's peak is underrated. I have him ahead of Orr and Lemieux, and many don't, because I don't think they appreciate his peak compared to others in the Big 4.

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04-12-2013, 12:33 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
That's on the main boards and not here right?

I don't recall any regular poster here ever suggesting that he is a top 10 player right now.
Yeah, definitely on the main board. I just worded it badly.

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Old
04-12-2013, 01:39 PM
  #84
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Mark Messier for me.

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04-12-2013, 02:15 PM
  #85
King Forsberg
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Forsberg can't be overrated, because King Forsberg is the greatest poster ever!
This is true. However people look at Forsberg the hockey player and expect him to live up to KingForsberg to HFBoards poster. Which of course is a near impossible task.

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04-12-2013, 03:29 PM
  #86
Hawkman
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I don't think he's still overrated here now, but there was a time when this Forum rated Kharlamov over all these guys and some of them MAY may have been better all around players than he was.

30 17 Valeri Kharlamov LW 5'8" 165 1967-1981
31 15 Milt Schmidt C 6"0" 185 1936-1942;1945-1955
32 19 Larry Robinson D 6'3" 220 1972-1992
33 19 Joe Sakic C 5'11" 185 1988-Present
34 30 Martin Brodeur G 6'1" 205 1991-1992;1993-Present
35 2 Viacheslav Fetisov D 6'1" 215 1974-1975;1976-1998
36 19 Steve Yzerman C 5'11" 185 1983-2006
37 29 Ken Dryden G 6'4" 207 1970-1979
38 10 Syl Apps, Sr. C 6'0" 185 1936-1948
39 5 Bernard Geoffrion RW 5'9" 170 1950-1964;1966-1968
40 22 Brad Park D 6'0" 190 1968-1985

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04-12-2013, 05:41 PM
  #87
Fred Taylor
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I agree Kharlamov is one of the most overrated players ever, hard to think of someone more overrated than him.

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04-12-2013, 09:41 PM
  #88
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Mike Richter - overrated by the US hockey media because he played for the Rangers and was American
Scott Stevens - One of the main cogs of the New Jersey trap which began 10 years of absolute horror of boring hockey
Scott Niedermayer - See Scott Stevens.


Last edited by EmersonBeatemEtem: 04-12-2013 at 09:48 PM.
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Old
04-12-2013, 11:40 PM
  #89
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
What's with the Rafalski hate? I thought he was pretty darn good - as a Devil. When he came to Detroit I was like "Yeah!"
He was the perfect partner for Scott Stevens.

Without Stevens, he couldn't handle being a #1 defenseman. He wrote his exit from NJ when they had to hide him from Vincent Lecavalier and Danny Heatley in the playoffs. It was comical - NJ did everything they could to get Paul Martin and Colin White out against them, Tampa Bay/Ottawa did everything they could to get them out against Rafalski.

Once Paul Martin emerged, he was a much better #1 defenseman at even strength than Rafalski was. I still wish they had tried harder to keep Rafalski for the powerplay, though.

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Old
04-12-2013, 11:42 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
He was the perfect partner for Scott Stevens.

Without Stevens, he couldn't handle being a #1 defenseman. He wrote his exit from NJ when they had to hide him from Vincent Lecavalier and Danny Heatley in the playoffs. It was comical - NJ did everything they could to get Paul Martin and Colin White out against them, Tampa Bay/Ottawa did everything they could to get them out against Rafalski.

Once Paul Martin emerged, he was a much better #1 defenseman at even strength than Rafalski was. I still wish they had tried harder to keep Rafalski for the powerplay, though.
I'd go as far as to say that Rafalski is one of the best #2 defensemen in NHL history who had no business anchoring his own pairing.

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04-13-2013, 12:09 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
He was the perfect partner for Scott Stevens.

Without Stevens, he couldn't handle being a #1 defenseman. He wrote his exit from NJ when they had to hide him from Vincent Lecavalier and Danny Heatley in the playoffs. It was comical - NJ did everything they could to get Paul Martin and Colin White out against them, Tampa Bay/Ottawa did everything they could to get them out against Rafalski.

Once Paul Martin emerged, he was a much better #1 defenseman at even strength than Rafalski was. I still wish they had tried harder to keep Rafalski for the powerplay, though.
The description you are writing is of a lot of guys considered #1 defensemen over the years. Dion Phaneuf comes to mind. Sandis Ozolinsh. Lubomir Visnovsky. Brian Leetch after the mid 90s. Rafalski wasn't by any means a shut-down type, but I haven't seen many better with an outlet pass. And I always thought he was solid defensively. Not spectacular by any means; but solid.

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04-13-2013, 12:16 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PantherDigest View Post
Pavel Datsyuk

Apparently he's the most talented player to ever play the game, yet for some reason can never lead the league in scoring...never won a Hart, never won a player MVP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgszYWFRP2M

I think your exaggerating. No one who knows hockey has ever claimed him to be the most talented ever. He's borderline elite offensively and a tremendous defensive player. This 8 minute video is a testimony to his all around game.

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04-13-2013, 12:43 AM
  #93
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I don't understand how anyone can look at Datsyuk play and think this player is overrated.

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04-13-2013, 01:26 AM
  #94
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Lidstrom and Crosby by far the most overrated players I have seen

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04-13-2013, 01:31 AM
  #95
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Lidstrom and Crosby by far the most overrated players I have seen
The words from a bitter fan i hear. Lets go Pens, lets go Sweden!

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04-13-2013, 03:33 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
In Wayne Gretzky's career-high 215-point season, he was 205% of the #10 scorer; technically #9 as Dale Hawerchuk and Neal Broten tied with 105 points, and was 207% of #11. He was 164% of 4th (Jari Kurri, 131 points) and 175% of 5th (Mike Bossy, 123 points).

In Gordie Howe's career-high 95-point season, he was 215% of the two #10 scorers (Jim McFadden and Fleming MacKell tied with 44) and was 211% of the #9 scorer (Bert Olmstead with 45 points). He was 161% of the #4/5 scorers (Wally Hershegeimer and Alex Delvecchio, 59 points each).

So basically, what you're saying is a player who peaked as dominantly offensively as Gretzky, was a solid two-way player, had the elite longevity of Ray Bourque, and was feared like Probert... is overrated? I'd say calling him less than the best of All-Time is underrating him.
Howe's peak numbers are certainly impressive but at the same time they came at a time when the league was still recovering from the war years, and on a powerhouse dynasty team in a six team league. That creates much less competition for top 10 spots for these percentages (only 18 top line players), and means not facing his own team (with an elite Sawchuk) has a much greater effect than in a 30 team league where the schedule is much more spread out.

I think a lot of people not versed in history just look at the scoring numbers and think Howe only has longevity, and by those accounts he gets underrated, but I think there's another faction of people that have started to overrate his peak as well, especially in relation to Lemieux. I think Lemieux was clearly a better offensive player throughout his career, but fails to live up in overall game, durability and longevity.

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Old
04-13-2013, 10:09 AM
  #97
Syckle78
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Crosby.

The amount of posters on the main board that think of him as a top 5 to 10 player of all time is staggering.

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04-13-2013, 10:17 AM
  #98
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Sergei Fedorov. Easily.

Second-line centerman + a few shifts on D + a youtube clip of him stealing a puck from an aging Gretzky + playing on Detroit = greatest, most amazingest, clutchiest, two-way forward ever?

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Old
04-13-2013, 01:19 PM
  #99
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The GAG line

The Sedin twins

The not so great 8

Cheevers

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Cujo

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04-13-2013, 01:27 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBlondeDemon10 View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgszYWFRP2M

I think your exaggerating. No one who knows hockey has ever claimed him to be the most talented ever. He's borderline elite offensively and a tremendous defensive player. This 8 minute video is a testimony to his all around game.
Misclicked, thought this was on the NHL forum

Apologies

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