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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part III

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Old
04-12-2013, 05:40 PM
  #176
Dactyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
so to summarize

1)cally stays on the top line despite being awful the past few games

2)boyle gets more ice time

3)zucc gets less ice time

4)rangers asking to get shutout by the isles by rolling 2/3 of a competant 1st line, an offensively inept and not defensively reliable 2nd line and an extremely creative and fast moving 3rd line that will get very limited ice time and a 4th line with a giant marshmallow on it

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04-12-2013, 05:45 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by blooblood View Post
so to summarize

1)cally stays on the top line despite being awful the past few games

2)boyle gets more ice time

3)zucc gets less ice time

4)rangers asking to get shutout by the isles by rolling 2/3 of a competant 1st line, an offensively inept and not defensively reliable 2nd line and an extremely creative and fast moving 3rd line that will get very limited ice time and a 4th line with a giant marshmallow on it
UNLESS......Torts realizes that Hags-Brass-Zooks should be the 2nd line.

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04-12-2013, 05:45 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by blooblood View Post
so to summarize

1)cally stays on the top line despite being awful the past few games

2)boyle gets more ice time

3)zucc gets less ice time

4)rangers asking to get shutout by the isles by rolling 2/3 of a competant 1st line, an offensively inept and not defensively reliable 2nd line and an extremely creative and fast moving 3rd line that will get very limited ice time and a 4th line with a giant marshmallow on it
1) It's Cally... He'll be fine, more than fine.

2-4) I'm not sure you have the lines in the right order. I saw in a few places that Richards line will be the third line, and Brassard's the second. Either way, I think we'll roll three lines and play the fourth sparingly.

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Old
04-12-2013, 05:48 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
UNLESS......Torts realizes that Hags-Brass-Zooks should be the 2nd line.
one defensive mistake by that line and zucc gets benched, brass goes to the 4th and boyle (double shifted) and pyatt will take their ice time

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04-12-2013, 05:49 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
1) It's Cally... He'll be fine, more than fine.

2-4) I'm not sure you have the lines in the right order. I saw in a few places that Richards line will be the third line, and Brassard's the second. Either way, I think we'll roll three lines and play the fourth sparingly.
i love cally but hes been **** in the past few games

that richie line is frightening. i love the brass line but i doubt torts puts them out there a lot its a jamless line

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04-12-2013, 07:09 PM
  #181
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I feel good about these lines. To me it's a clear indication of just how badly Richards has been. Pairing our high dollar #1 center with Boyle is laughable but Boyle is sound defensively and the beaver can't skate anymore.

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Old
04-12-2013, 07:16 PM
  #182
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clowe-beaver-the great one

thats gotta be the slowest line in the league

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Old
04-12-2013, 07:22 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by blooblood View Post
one defensive mistake by that line and zucc gets benched, brass goes to the 4th and boyle (double shifted) and pyatt will take their ice time
And Biron plays 6th Dman.

Just as likely.

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Old
04-12-2013, 07:38 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Amusing. None of this is even remotely accurate.

- "Offense matters more than defense" isn't my argument. I never said that.
- When I said not in my opinion, I was referring to the quality of being entertained, not that one matters more than the other. How could you possibly not pick up on that?
- If you'd rather watch defensive hockey, that's fine. Personally, I think that's absurd and shows a terrible under appreciation for the beauty of the sport, but hey, to each their own. Regardless, that opinion would put you in the minority, but then again, I don't believe that this opinion is even true to begin with.
- It most certainly is a legitimate point of criticism, because the argument that I actually made, rather than the one you (as always) erroneously attributed to me, was that it is virtually impossible to win a championship if you don't have a tremendous offense; that a strong defense alone gets you hardly anywhere, the Rangers being clear proof of that. I provided the proper evidence to back that statement up.



Ah, so now it is the system. Another excuse. Brilliant. So what system would you propose? Should the best teams in the league draft the best players? Or maybe the system, the same one that is used in every sport, be designed to benefit only Glen Sather, where mediocre teams that strive to be just good enough for the fans to not boo routinely, get rewarded. Maybe we should go back to the old days, where rights are territorial. That will bode well for this team, huh? The entire point of the draft is to make sure that sports has a cyclical nature, to try and give every team the opportunity to go through ups and downs.

The Rangers limit themselves by refusing to take part in this natural cycle, and in the process, greatly lower their chances of acquiring the world's best players. As a result, they greatly diminish their ability to compete at the highest level. As I said before, if the Rangers choose to limit themselves in this fashion (despite the fact that this is the most idiotic course to take), then they should find someone who is able to navigate a different strategy that leads to accomplishing the goal of winning. Glen Sather has failed, and failed miserably, at this task.

And by the way, the Penguins made the playoffs for 11 consecutive seasons, a span during which they won more championships than the Rangers have in the last 70 years. This streak of great success, by the way, began with them drafting Mario Lemieux 1st overall, and Jaromir Jagr 5th overall. In addition to two Cups, they also made the conference finals two other times. Then, with Lemieux's future uncertain thanks to his health, and no longer able to afford some of their players (in part thanks to Lemieux's enormous salary), they traded Jagr, one of the best players of all-time, and rebuilt for three years. Maybe getting Crosby was a conspiracy, maybe it wasn't, but they did nothing out of the ordinary. They did what any reasonable team would and should do: they enjoyed a peak period, realized that they needed to start over, and sacrificed a few years in order to give themselves a chance to compete and give their fans a chance to enjoy something worth paying for.

Even the Red Wings, who achieved prolonged success over years and years without getting high draft picks, still began their run with Yzerman, who had been a 4th pick overall. Does that mean the Red Wings, clearly the best run organization in the sport for the last 20 years, deserve less respect? They drafted Joe Murphy 1st overall in '86, and Keith Primeau 3rd overall in '90. Those two players eventually helped them get Shanahan, who was a huge part of their lengthy run as a perennial cup contender.

Everyone plays by the same rules. If the Rangers choose to play by a different set of rules, than they should find a way to succeed in spite of them. Glen Sather has had 13 years to try. He has failed, despite virtually every advantage a man in his position could ask for, despite numerous coaching changes and countless roster overhauls. When is enough enough?

I look forward to seeing you avoid addressing this central question yet again in your next post.
So, if I'm understanding this correctly, one or two elite players as a result of the draft can jumpstart a period of success. NYR suffers because they don't fall enough in the standings to get those elite players.

The question that jumps to mind then is this: doesn't this team have elite players despite not drafting them in the first round? Isn't Hank elite? Isn't Nash elite? Nash isn't a Crosby/Jagr/Yzerman talent obviously, but not many top 10 picks are. 30 goals, 60 points sounds fairly standard for top picks except for a handful of guys over periods of years who end up being generational or nearly generational talents, no? Hank is, in my opinion, as elite a goalie as we'll see in this period of NHL hockey. So, what's the problem? That the elite players NYR have aren't both scorers? That their elite offensive players are rarely on ELCs?

I don't mean this in a combative way at all, I legitimately want to understand this point of view. Thanks for any clarity you can provide.

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Old
04-12-2013, 08:05 PM
  #185
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Best thing for a team is getting a top talent in the draft. Then you have the player for many years, over the best period of their career. Then over that entire productive period - maybe 8 years for a skater, longer for a goalie, you can build the rest of the team. And it's easier because you only need to acquire complementary talent - you don't need an older star be the team's best player.

Nash is one of the better players in the league, but we don't really have a long window with him at his best.

People say the draft is a crapshoot - they're absolutely right - but getting 30-year-old players is also a crapshoot. Even if they were great, you don't know how fast they lose it.

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04-13-2013, 12:04 AM
  #186
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What I don't understand is why we essentially trade an 80 point Gaborik for a 65 point Nash. How many GMs in the league would make that swap? And throw in a 1st round draft pick in a deep draft? I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Marian beat Nash's career high in points next season. Nash is a better 1 on 1 player, and a dangled ill give him that, but what was the mentality in getting Replacing a better scorer for a worse scorer? I think we could have flipped Anisimov and Dubinsky separately for much better returns and then, if it came to it, traded Gaborik for Nash. I would have done things differently if I was Sather. Tortorella shouldn't have this much power.

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04-13-2013, 12:07 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
What I don't understand is why we essentially trade an 80 point Gaborik for a 65 point Nash. How many GMs in the league would make that swap? And throw in a 1st round draft pick in a deep draft? I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Marian beat Nash's career high in points next season. Nash is a better 1 on 1 player, and a dangled ill give him that, but what was the mentality in getting Replacing a better scorer for a worse scorer? I think we could have flipped Anisimov and Dubinsky separately for much better returns and then, if it came to it, traded Gaborik for Nash. I would have done things differently if I was Sather. Tortorella shouldn't have this much power.
But we didn't trade Gaborik for Nash. The point was for them to play and produce together. It didn't happen.

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Old
04-13-2013, 12:18 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
What I don't understand is why we essentially trade an 80 point Gaborik for a 65 point Nash. How many GMs in the league would make that swap? And throw in a 1st round draft pick in a deep draft? I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Marian beat Nash's career high in points next season. Nash is a better 1 on 1 player, and a dangled ill give him that, but what was the mentality in getting Replacing a better scorer for a worse scorer? I think we could have flipped Anisimov and Dubinsky separately for much better returns and then, if it came to it, traded Gaborik for Nash. I would have done things differently if I was Sather. Tortorella shouldn't have this much power.
I don't mind the Gaborik for Nash swap, although I still preferred Gaborik.

What makes my blood boil is Erixon, Anisimov, Dubinsky and a 1rst for Moore, Brassard and Dorsett. That's bad.

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04-13-2013, 12:20 AM
  #189
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What I don't understand is why we essentially trade an 80 point Gaborik for a 65 point Nash. How many GMs in the league would make that swap?
Thirty, probably.

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04-13-2013, 12:20 AM
  #190
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But we didn't trade Gaborik for Nash. The point was for them to play and produce together. It didn't happen.
They didn't produce for 30 games....

Guess the Devils should've cut ties with Kovalchuk after his disastrous start to the 2010-11 season?

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04-13-2013, 12:22 AM
  #191
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They didn't produce for 30 games....

Guess the Devils should've cut ties with Kovalchuk after his disastrous start to the 2010-11 season?
Did he say he agreed with the move? Doesn't look like it. That's just what happened though

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04-13-2013, 12:23 AM
  #192
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They didn't produce for 30 games....

Guess the Devils should've cut ties with Kovalchuk after his disastrous start to the 2010-11 season?
Do you think Gaborik is equally likely to rebound?

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04-13-2013, 12:25 AM
  #193
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Did he say he agreed with the move? Doesn't look like it. That's just what happened though
Didn't mean to single out Bob, my bad if it sounded as if.

But this whole shortened season is a crapshoot. And Uncle Glen traded the best forward for this team since the time he signed his contract for spare parts. I wish we waited it out until deadline next season if things didn't go well.

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04-13-2013, 12:26 AM
  #194
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Do you think Gaborik is equally likely to rebound?
Of course. He's proven it in the past.

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04-13-2013, 12:27 AM
  #195
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Do you think Gaborik is equally likely to rebound?
Thank you.

I don't understand this at all. You take a guy who's game is predicated mainly off two things: his speed and shot. You add some significant injuries, and then you add natural aging.

Does anyone actually think he was in a "slump"?

I love the guy, but you can't tell me he's recently looked like 2009 Gabby. He's lost a step, and his wrist shot has become significantly worse. That's not a slump. That's the beginning of the end.

And even IF he is to rebound, it wasn't going to be here. Combine all of this with his cap hit, and he HAD to be moved.

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04-13-2013, 12:28 AM
  #196
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They didn't produce for 30 games....

Guess the Devils should've cut ties with Kovalchuk after his disastrous start to the 2010-11 season?
Hey man, if you're going to find someone to criticize the move for certain points, it would be me. It seemed panic driven and reactionary.

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04-13-2013, 12:28 AM
  #197
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Didn't mean to single out Bob, my bad if it sounded as if.

But this whole shortened season is a crapshoot. And Uncle Glen traded the best forward for this team since the time he signed his contract for spare parts. I wish we waited it out until deadline next season if things didn't go well.
Saul good.

I know every team had to deal with the shortened season too and that it shouldn't be an excuse but I'm using it as one. It really ****ed us royally. We went from pre-season Cup favorites to ridiculously underwhelming and I just can't see it being that way with a full 82 game sched. This season sucks.

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04-13-2013, 12:28 AM
  #198
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Didn't mean to single out Bob, my bad if it sounded as if.

But this whole shortened season is a crapshoot. And Uncle Glen traded the best forward for this team since the time he signed his contract for spare parts. I wish we waited it out until deadline next season if things didn't go well.
A young skilled center, a young mobile defenseman, and a young guy who NYR fans are going to love for his physicality (and hasn't even played a game yet) aren't spare parts.

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04-13-2013, 12:31 AM
  #199
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Hey man, if you're going to find someone to criticize the move for certain points, it would be me. It seemed panic driven and reactionary.
My apologies. Just venting off my frustration at management, not anyone here of course.

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04-13-2013, 12:33 AM
  #200
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I mean, I'm on the fence with it (as I seem to be with most things).

I like the pieces we got back as they make us deeper but I'm pretty disappointed that we gave the Nash-Richards-Gaborik experiment about 30 games before giving up completely.

Oh well. C'est la vie.

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