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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part III

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Old
04-13-2013, 12:36 AM
  #201
Brian Boyle
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My apologies. Just venting off my frustration at management, not anyone here of course.
I feel like I'm being attacked.

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Old
04-13-2013, 12:40 AM
  #202
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Saul good.

I know every team had to deal with the shortened season too and that it shouldn't be an excuse but I'm using it as one. It really ****ed us royally. We went from pre-season Cup favorites to ridiculously underwhelming and I just can't see it being that way with a full 82 game sched. This season sucks.
It is definitely a weird season.

I projected the Rangers to be a poor puck possession team, but they have done well in that department this year.

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Nope, I think we claw our way in for a 7th-8th seed.
I thought the poor puck possession system will setback our record. Dubinsky and Anisimov were great puck possession players while Rick Nash was not so great statistic wise. The Rangers biggest problem was possessing the puck, wonder why we blocked so many shots? Because the other team always had the puck and we shelled it up.

I'm not so sure why we've been unlucky scoring chance wise. Our bottom 6 has no pure scorers and out top 6 has players that should be on bottom 6 on contenders (Clowe, Zuccarello, Hags)

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04-13-2013, 12:43 AM
  #203
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A young skilled center, a young mobile defenseman, and a young guy who NYR fans are going to love for his physicality (and hasn't even played a game yet) aren't spare parts.
A draft disappointment, a redundant D prospect (with 2nd pair upside) in CBJ system and a 4th line grinder is how I see the trade. Not a big fan of Brassard. I wanted Anisimov back first and foremost and was pretty devastated when we couldn't even retain him when dealing a 40g scorer from last season. Moore is alright, but what's the point of getting another LS d-man. Dorsett is a good piece.... as a throw-in.

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04-13-2013, 12:47 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
A draft disappointment, a redundant D prospect (with 2nd pair upside) in CBJ system and a 4th line grinder is how I see the trade. Not a big fan of Brassard. I wanted Anisimov back first and foremost and was pretty devastated when we couldn't even retain him when dealing a 40g scorer from last season. Moore is alright, but what's the point of getting another LS d-man. Dorsett is a good piece.... as a throw-in.
Understandably it wasn't the ideal package, but it's pretty much as good as Gaborik would have gotten.

A couple of factors here: what teams wanted him, what teams could afford his cap hit, and who these select teams were offering in return. He also had a NMC to work around.

These factors had to have narrowed the field down to a small handful of teams.

There's obviously some negatives to this trade, but it's not all bad. I think the biggest positive is we didn't take back significant salary, which was my fear in any Gaborik scenario.

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04-13-2013, 12:49 AM
  #205
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It's convincing when you look at where we're probably gonna finish this compared to the past few years, with the exception of last year. Maybe last year really just was an anomaly and we're destined for mediocrity.

Finish high enough not to tank but finish low enough not to compete. This team's in hockey purgatory most of the time

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04-13-2013, 12:56 AM
  #206
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This trade would actually work fine if guys like Richards and the D core were playing with some competence.

Then again, if they were originally doing that, the trade wouldn't need to happen.

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04-13-2013, 12:59 AM
  #207
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This trade would actually work fine if guys like Richards and the D core were playing with some competence.

Then again, if they were originally doing that, the trade wouldn't need to happen.
I still think Gabby was gone at the draft, especially if we wanted to keep Clowe around.

I'm no cap expert but I think adding Clowe meant goodbye Gabby.

You're right though, he definitely could have lasted the season.

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04-13-2013, 01:01 AM
  #208
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I still think Gabby was gone at the draft, especially if we wanted to keep Clowe around.

I'm no cap expert but I think adding Clowe meant goodbye Gabby.

You're right though, he definitely could have lasted the season.
I'm with you there. I was guessing that he'd be gone by the draft so this took me completely by surprise.

As for the cap situation, adding Clowe put us real close to the brink so someone was going to be the odd man out.

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04-13-2013, 01:13 AM
  #209
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Thank you.

I don't understand this at all. You take a guy who's game is predicated mainly off two things: his speed and shot. You add some significant injuries, and then you add natural aging.

Does anyone actually think he was in a "slump"?

I love the guy, but you can't tell me he's recently looked like 2009 Gabby. He's lost a step, and his wrist shot has become significantly worse. That's not a slump. That's the beginning of the end.

And even IF he is to rebound, it wasn't going to be here. Combine all of this with his cap hit, and he HAD to be moved.
Take a look at Gaborik's goal tonight for example, look how fast he was, and to score a goal with 1 hand? Tortorella drove him bananas, I don't blame Gabs for leaving, so happy he's far away from him. If you're not an American or Canadian, you're welcome to join Tort's doghouse, even if you're oozing skill and 40 goal ability. Richards is 2x worse than Gaborik defensively, has no speed whatsoever, and dogs it in 2/3 zones on the ice. What constitutes having Richards around? He's an albatross who used his reputation to handcuff the Rangers into shelling out 12 lemons for him this season...for what? A 54 point pace in 82 games? He's *******, pardon my language. 0 respect for him, unless ofcourse an undisclosed concussion is diagnosed in the off-season. He's a shell of a 1st line center. Only thing he really has left is his heavy shot. Gaborik was not the problem on this roster. You have a guy who made 300 grand more than him on his line (who scores less than he does) and a 6.667 albatross who is softer than Doo Doo. What do you expect? Nash doesn't like to pass the puck, Richards can barely do that without falling down 3 times. But Gaborik is the odd man out because he is from Slovakia, and Tortsy no likey.

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04-13-2013, 02:45 AM
  #210
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So, if I'm understanding this correctly, one or two elite players as a result of the draft can jumpstart a period of success. NYR suffers because they don't fall enough in the standings to get those elite players.

The question that jumps to mind then is this: doesn't this team have elite players despite not drafting them in the first round? Isn't Hank elite? Isn't Nash elite? Nash isn't a Crosby/Jagr/Yzerman talent obviously, but not many top 10 picks are. 30 goals, 60 points sounds fairly standard for top picks except for a handful of guys over periods of years who end up being generational or nearly generational talents, no? Hank is, in my opinion, as elite a goalie as we'll see in this period of NHL hockey. So, what's the problem? That the elite players NYR have aren't both scorers? That their elite offensive players are rarely on ELCs?

I don't mean this in a combative way at all, I legitimately want to understand this point of view. Thanks for any clarity you can provide.
Fair question, but before I try to address it, I just want to point out that the main question is scoring. If the team doesn't score enough goals, going all the way is difficult, as I've shown with the Cup winners being all top 10 offensive teams.

That said, let's look at Rick Nash in comparison with the top players on some of the best teams in the league. I don't want to look at just the teams doing great this year, because you have some teams that are underachieving, some that are overachieving, and it is just a strange year in general.

I'm going to list how many players each of these teams have that are either nearly as good as, just as good as or better than Rick Nash, who has a career PPG of .82, and who I think we can agree is the best offensive player on the Rangers today. Whether you agree or disagree with my specific assessments of each player, just take a look at how many more players all of these teams have that are at least "in the conversation" as compared to the Rangers. Keep in mind that the Rangers, aside from Nash, only have Richards (who at this point in time appears to be in heavy decline) and Stepan, (who at this point in time is just starting to prove himself as a top offensive player) who could potentially qualify as "top offensive players." Perhaps you could make a borderline argument for Callahan, as well.

Let's also keep in mind that since the lockout, only once has a Rangers defenseman finished in the top 30 PPG among defensemen (MDZ last season, 24th). This season, again, no one makes that cut.

-Pittsburgh has two players that are better than Nash in Crosby and Malkin. They also have an elite offensive defenseman in Letang. James Neal is a career .71 PPG player, so not quite as good as Nash, but a similar player putting up close to as many career points. Inflated by playing with Crosby and Malkin, but that's part of the difference. He plays with elite playmakers. The Rangers don't have elite playmakers.

-Chicago has Kane and Toews, both of whom are just as good or better offensively than Nash, and Toews is also one of the best defensive players in the league. They also have Hossa, who is better offensively than Nash and much better defensively, as well. They also have Duncan Keith, a pretty good offensive defenseman and a sometimes Norris-contender. In addition to this, they have a stacked team up and down the line up with scoring coming from all sides.

-Vancouver has the Sedin brothers, both of whom have a career PPG of .84 to go along with almost always having one defenseman that puts up more points than Del Zotto, whether it was Ehrhoff, or Bieksa, or now Edler.

- Boston has Bergeron, .76 PPG for his career, and one of the best defensive players in the league. Seguin is only in his third year, but is already scoring at or near Rick Nash rates (and was the 2nd pick in the draft, still on an ELC, and they got him for Phil Kessel, who was a 5th pick in the draft). Brad Marchand has improved 3 years in a row, and is now scoring at Rick Nash rates. Krecji scores at .74 PPG. Toss in Chara, an amazing defensive defenseman while also scoring more than any Rangers defenseman.

- Los Angeles has Kopitar. Then you add in Carter and Richards, both of whom score near Rick Nash levels, with Richards providing great two-way play. Since becoming healthier over the last 3 years, Justin Williams has scored at the same pace as those guys, too (much as he did in his days with Carolina). Whether it is Drew Doughty, or Slava Voynov this year, they always also have an offensive defenseman that puts up more points than Del Zotto.

- San Jose may finally have reached the point where they are going to fall off, but they've been one of the best teams in the league for years now, even if they have not been able to win a championship. They have Thornton, Couture, Marleau, Pavelski, Boyle. 2 years ago, when they were a conference finalist for the 2nd straight year, they were also getting 60 point seasons out of Heatley and Clowe.

- Spezza and Karlsson alone is beastly, but the Sens also have Alfredsson and Michalek. One is old, one is injury prone, but that's okay, because they have Silfverberg, Turris and Zibanejad coming along.

- Anaheim always has a great offense, because they have Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Selanne, and Koivu. When they won the Cup, they also had two elite offensive defensmen in Niedermeyer and Pronger. They've faltered in recent years because they were awful defensively. That has changed this year, and not surprisingly, they are back near the top of the standings.

- Detroit is having a down year this year, but they remained one of the best teams in the league thanks to Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom, even as he aged. They always had some complimentary scorers in Franzen, Kronwall, Flip, and Rafalski.

What can we gather from this? First of all, nearly all of these teams featured a top lottery pick, if not two, among that group of top players. Second, these teams all have more players scoring at or close to a PPG than the Rangers do, and they all have an elite playmaker, if not two, usually playing center. The Rangers have a top goalscorer in Nash, but even Stepan, who is having a terrific season, still isn't playing like a playmaker. He's done much of his damage as a sniper, or cleaning up garbage goals. He is "only" averaging .5 assists per game. Certainly nothing to scoff at, but most of these teams have 2, if not 3, players averaging more assists per game than Stepan. They also have at least one defenseman that puts up more points than any defenseman on the Rangers.

The Rangers don't have elite creators, whether it is up front or on the blue line, and they lack offensive depth. Richards was supposed to be our elite playmaker, but he hasn't been. We wouldn't have needed him in the first place if we had drafted and developed our own playmaker.

You brought up Lundqvist, and I agree. He's the best goalie of his generation, but he is also highly paid for a goalie. That doesn't mean he should be gotten rid of; he's great. But it means the rest of the budget needs to be managed carefully. Instead, because we failed to draft and develop our own elite offensive talent, we have to overpay an exiting-his-prime Brad Richards, and trade for Rick Nash. Nash is a great player, but is he a top 5 forward in the league? Is he a top 10 forward in the league? IMO, you could very easily argue that he isn't even a top 15 forward. This season, he is 24th in the league in PPG (and this is one of the top 2-3 PPG seasons of his career). Among active players, he is 25th in career PPG. But he has the 6th highest cap hit in the league this year. So not only are we overpaying him, but we also had to give up assets just to get him, hurting our team in the process. This makes the team's secondary scoring weak to begin with, but it is made weaker still by the fact that we lack great playmakers to help offensively elevate the complimentary players.

What makes this all the more infuriating is that we fell ass backwards into a wonderful opportunity to draft one of the top offensive prospects in the world when we had the 10th pick, the highest this team will pick any time in the near future, and instead of taking exactly the thing that this team sorely lacks, exactly what separates this team from the best teams in the league, we chose to select a defensive defenseman. Keep in mind, that for 8 years running now, the Rangers have been one of the best defensive teams in the league, and below average offensively, and achieved their greatest success only when the offense managed to crawl above the mediocrity mark. Makes plenty of sense, right?

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04-13-2013, 03:07 AM
  #211
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Take a look at Gaborik's goal tonight for example, look how fast he was, and to score a goal with 1 hand? Tortorella drove him bananas, I don't blame Gabs for leaving, so happy he's far away from him. If you're not an American or Canadian, you're welcome to join Tort's doghouse, even if you're oozing skill and 40 goal ability. Richards is 2x worse than Gaborik defensively, has no speed whatsoever, and dogs it in 2/3 zones on the ice. What constitutes having Richards around? He's an albatross who used his reputation to handcuff the Rangers into shelling out 12 lemons for him this season...for what? A 54 point pace in 82 games? He's *******, pardon my language. 0 respect for him, unless ofcourse an undisclosed concussion is diagnosed in the off-season. He's a shell of a 1st line center. Only thing he really has left is his heavy shot. Gaborik was not the problem on this roster. You have a guy who made 300 grand more than him on his line (who scores less than he does) and a 6.667 albatross who is softer than Doo Doo. What do you expect? Nash doesn't like to pass the puck, Richards can barely do that without falling down 3 times. But Gaborik is the odd man out because he is from Slovakia, and Tortsy no likey.
You can't move Richards albatross contract in a trade, especially considering he has no reason to play those last three fake years of it, which would cause a big cap hit when he does in fact retire. He will be bought out either this summer or next summer.

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04-13-2013, 12:21 PM
  #212
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Fair question, but before I try to address it, I just want to point out that the main question is scoring. If the team doesn't score enough goals, going all the way is difficult, as I've shown with the Cup winners being all top 10 offensive teams.

That said, let's look at Rick Nash in comparison with the top players on some of the best teams in the league. I don't want to look at just the teams doing great this year, because you have some teams that are underachieving, some that are overachieving, and it is just a strange year in general.

I'm going to list how many players each of these teams have that are either nearly as good as, just as good as or better than Rick Nash, who has a career PPG of .82, and who I think we can agree is the best offensive player on the Rangers today. Whether you agree or disagree with my specific assessments of each player, just take a look at how many more players all of these teams have that are at least "in the conversation" as compared to the Rangers. Keep in mind that the Rangers, aside from Nash, only have Richards (who at this point in time appears to be in heavy decline) and Stepan, (who at this point in time is just starting to prove himself as a top offensive player) who could potentially qualify as "top offensive players." Perhaps you could make a borderline argument for Callahan, as well.

Let's also keep in mind that since the lockout, only once has a Rangers defenseman finished in the top 30 PPG among defensemen (MDZ last season, 24th). This season, again, no one makes that cut.

-Pittsburgh has two players that are better than Nash in Crosby and Malkin. They also have an elite offensive defenseman in Letang. James Neal is a career .71 PPG player, so not quite as good as Nash, but a similar player putting up close to as many career points. Inflated by playing with Crosby and Malkin, but that's part of the difference. He plays with elite playmakers. The Rangers don't have elite playmakers.

-Chicago has Kane and Toews, both of whom are just as good or better offensively than Nash, and Toews is also one of the best defensive players in the league. They also have Hossa, who is better offensively than Nash and much better defensively, as well. They also have Duncan Keith, a pretty good offensive defenseman and a sometimes Norris-contender. In addition to this, they have a stacked team up and down the line up with scoring coming from all sides.

-Vancouver has the Sedin brothers, both of whom have a career PPG of .84 to go along with almost always having one defenseman that puts up more points than Del Zotto, whether it was Ehrhoff, or Bieksa, or now Edler.

- Boston has Bergeron, .76 PPG for his career, and one of the best defensive players in the league. Seguin is only in his third year, but is already scoring at or near Rick Nash rates (and was the 2nd pick in the draft, still on an ELC, and they got him for Phil Kessel, who was a 5th pick in the draft). Brad Marchand has improved 3 years in a row, and is now scoring at Rick Nash rates. Krecji scores at .74 PPG. Toss in Chara, an amazing defensive defenseman while also scoring more than any Rangers defenseman.

- Los Angeles has Kopitar. Then you add in Carter and Richards, both of whom score near Rick Nash levels, with Richards providing great two-way play. Since becoming healthier over the last 3 years, Justin Williams has scored at the same pace as those guys, too (much as he did in his days with Carolina). Whether it is Drew Doughty, or Slava Voynov this year, they always also have an offensive defenseman that puts up more points than Del Zotto.

- San Jose may finally have reached the point where they are going to fall off, but they've been one of the best teams in the league for years now, even if they have not been able to win a championship. They have Thornton, Couture, Marleau, Pavelski, Boyle. 2 years ago, when they were a conference finalist for the 2nd straight year, they were also getting 60 point seasons out of Heatley and Clowe.

- Spezza and Karlsson alone is beastly, but the Sens also have Alfredsson and Michalek. One is old, one is injury prone, but that's okay, because they have Silfverberg, Turris and Zibanejad coming along.

- Anaheim always has a great offense, because they have Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Selanne, and Koivu. When they won the Cup, they also had two elite offensive defensmen in Niedermeyer and Pronger. They've faltered in recent years because they were awful defensively. That has changed this year, and not surprisingly, they are back near the top of the standings.

- Detroit is having a down year this year, but they remained one of the best teams in the league thanks to Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom, even as he aged. They always had some complimentary scorers in Franzen, Kronwall, Flip, and Rafalski.

What can we gather from this? First of all, nearly all of these teams featured a top lottery pick, if not two, among that group of top players. Second, these teams all have more players scoring at or close to a PPG than the Rangers do, and they all have an elite playmaker, if not two, usually playing center. The Rangers have a top goalscorer in Nash, but even Stepan, who is having a terrific season, still isn't playing like a playmaker. He's done much of his damage as a sniper, or cleaning up garbage goals. He is "only" averaging .5 assists per game. Certainly nothing to scoff at, but most of these teams have 2, if not 3, players averaging more assists per game than Stepan. They also have at least one defenseman that puts up more points than any defenseman on the Rangers.

The Rangers don't have elite creators, whether it is up front or on the blue line, and they lack offensive depth. Richards was supposed to be our elite playmaker, but he hasn't been. We wouldn't have needed him in the first place if we had drafted and developed our own playmaker.

You brought up Lundqvist, and I agree. He's the best goalie of his generation, but he is also highly paid for a goalie. That doesn't mean he should be gotten rid of; he's great. But it means the rest of the budget needs to be managed carefully. Instead, because we failed to draft and develop our own elite offensive talent, we have to overpay an exiting-his-prime Brad Richards, and trade for Rick Nash. Nash is a great player, but is he a top 5 forward in the league? Is he a top 10 forward in the league? IMO, you could very easily argue that he isn't even a top 15 forward. This season, he is 24th in the league in PPG (and this is one of the top 2-3 PPG seasons of his career). Among active players, he is 25th in career PPG. But he has the 6th highest cap hit in the league this year. So not only are we overpaying him, but we also had to give up assets just to get him, hurting our team in the process. This makes the team's secondary scoring weak to begin with, but it is made weaker still by the fact that we lack great playmakers to help offensively elevate the complimentary players.

What makes this all the more infuriating is that we fell ass backwards into a wonderful opportunity to draft one of the top offensive prospects in the world when we had the 10th pick, the highest this team will pick any time in the near future, and instead of taking exactly the thing that this team sorely lacks, exactly what separates this team from the best teams in the league, we chose to select a defensive defenseman. Keep in mind, that for 8 years running now, the Rangers have been one of the best defensive teams in the league, and below average offensively, and achieved their greatest success only when the offense managed to crawl above the mediocrity mark. Makes plenty of sense, right?
Woah, thanks for all the explanation. I disagree on a few teams here or there but I get the main idea and it makes a lot of sense. I'm crossing my fingers that this new wave of NYR prospects can provide some of the scoring depth that we're lacking. Sure, not every prospect hits their ceiling, but even if half of the guys who are on the cusp pan out, the team should have some cheap scoring depth. Playmaking center is still a huge hole though unless Miller or Lindberg can play that role. I think they both have pretty good chances of being solid NHLers but I'm not sure either is going to play the kind of game that this team needs at the center position.

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04-13-2013, 12:33 PM
  #213
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Understandably it wasn't the ideal package, but it's pretty much as good as Gaborik would have gotten.

A couple of factors here: what teams wanted him, what teams could afford his cap hit, and who these select teams were offering in return. He also had a NMC to work around.

These factors had to have narrowed the field down to a small handful of teams.

There's obviously some negatives to this trade, but it's not all bad. I think the biggest positive is we didn't take back significant salary, which was my fear in any Gaborik scenario.
The Rangers barely saved cap space on this deal. They got an overpaid, underacheiving, soft, 1-dimensonal, terrible defensive center making 3.2m, a 4th line grinder making 1.7 and a defense prospect on ELC. They saved 2m on the cap. Which they'll end up using on a Taylor Pyatt or Roman Hamrlik.

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04-13-2013, 01:02 PM
  #214
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The Rangers barely saved cap space on this deal. They got an overpaid, underacheiving, soft, 1-dimensonal, terrible defensive center making 3.2m, a 4th line grinder making 1.7 and a defense prospect on ELC. They saved 2m on the cap. Which they'll end up using on a Taylor Pyatt or Roman Hamrlik.
My buddy hit the lottery one time. Complained about the taxes he had to pay.

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04-13-2013, 01:05 PM
  #215
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Take a look at Gaborik's goal tonight for example, look how fast he was, and to score a goal with 1 hand? Tortorella drove him bananas, I don't blame Gabs for leaving, so happy he's far away from him. If you're not an American or Canadian, you're welcome to join Tort's doghouse, even if you're oozing skill and 40 goal ability. Richards is 2x worse than Gaborik defensively, has no speed whatsoever, and dogs it in 2/3 zones on the ice. What constitutes having Richards around? He's an albatross who used his reputation to handcuff the Rangers into shelling out 12 lemons for him this season...for what? A 54 point pace in 82 games? He's *******, pardon my language. 0 respect for him, unless ofcourse an undisclosed concussion is diagnosed in the off-season. He's a shell of a 1st line center. Only thing he really has left is his heavy shot. Gaborik was not the problem on this roster. You have a guy who made 300 grand more than him on his line (who scores less than he does) and a 6.667 albatross who is softer than Doo Doo. What do you expect? Nash doesn't like to pass the puck, Richards can barely do that without falling down 3 times. But Gaborik is the odd man out because he is from Slovakia, and Tortsy no likey.

Interesting. Gabby bears no responsibility for being invisible for the majority of games he played in this season? None? Amazing, along with the rest of this post which is a departure from reality.

Gaborik was not THE problem, but he was a huge problem. Nice guy. Good Team mate. ZERO presence on the ice. I'm sure that went over well in the locker room.

Tort's hates Euros. Again with this nuttiness. Just like he hated Feds, Vinny P., and now hates Hags.

I agree completely as to Richards. An even bigger disgrace.

Let's put it to the floor regarding Gabby: What would any of you, were you the coach of an NHL team, do with a highly paid athlete, that continued to be a non factor in game after game.

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04-13-2013, 01:24 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
Thank you.

I don't understand this at all. You take a guy who's game is predicated mainly off two things: his speed and shot. You add some significant injuries, and then you add natural aging.

Does anyone actually think he was in a "slump"?

I love the guy, but you can't tell me he's recently looked like 2009 Gabby. He's lost a step, and his wrist shot has become significantly worse. That's not a slump. That's the beginning of the end.

And even IF he is to rebound, it wasn't going to be here. Combine all of this with his cap hit, and he HAD to be moved.
well its a small sample obviously, but hes been playing well in columbus so far

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04-13-2013, 01:35 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Interesting. Gabby bears no responsibility for being invisible for the majority of games he played in this season? None? Amazing, along with the rest of this post which is a departure from reality.

Gaborik was not THE problem, but he was a huge problem. Nice guy. Good Team mate. ZERO presence on the ice. I'm sure that went over well in the locker room.

Tort's hates Euros. Again with this nuttiness. Just like he hated Feds, Vinny P., and now hates Hags.

I agree completely as to Richards. An even bigger disgrace.

Let's put it to the floor regarding Gabby: What would any of you, were you the coach of an NHL team, do with a highly paid athlete, that continued to be a non factor in game after game.
IMO you need to look at the guys performance pre and post...was he like that in MN and is he like that in CBJ?

Too early to tell how he will perform in CBJ

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04-13-2013, 01:41 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
The Rangers barely saved cap space on this deal. They got an overpaid, underacheiving, soft, 1-dimensonal, terrible defensive center making 3.2m, a 4th line grinder making 1.7 and a defense prospect on ELC. They saved 2m on the cap. Which they'll end up using on a Taylor Pyatt or Roman Hamrlik.
They got an upgrade at 3C over what they had. There is absolutely no way that Brassard is worse than Boyle or Miller at 3C at this point. He adds an offensive dimension to a line that was a fourth line until he got here. He underachieves if you expect him to play a role that he's not asked to play here. He's a fine 3C. They also got an upgrade on the "fourth line grinder," which I hesitate to leave out of quotes because when I think fourth line grinder I think a guy like Powe or Fedotenko, a neutralizing player who provides nothing positive or negative, and I expect Dorsett to provide energy and toughness far beyond that. He'll be a fourth line grinder like Prust was a forth line grinder. They also got a bottom pairing D-man who is actually likely to improve his game as opposed to the revolving door of over-the-hill stopgaps.

The team needed every piece they got back for Gabby. Your description of the pieces they got in return is highly subjective.

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04-13-2013, 02:42 PM
  #219
mandiblesofdoom
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Let's put it to the floor regarding Gabby: What would any of you, were you the coach of an NHL team, do with a highly paid athlete, that continued to be a non factor in game after game.
We never know enough. First thing I'd do as GM is figure out why he was underperforming. Is he still hurt? Then wait it out if it's that kind of injury. Is he in terminal career decline? Then try to trade him while he still has value. Is it an attitude thing - does he have a big problem with the coach? If I like the coach more than him, again, I'd trade him. Is the problem being saddled with Richards as C? hmmm ....

Do we know what Gabby's problem was?

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04-13-2013, 02:51 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
IMO you need to look at the guys performance pre and post...was he like that in MN and is he like that in CBJ?

Too early to tell how he will perform in CBJ
I think he will do very well in Cbus. Fresh start. Greatly reduced pressure. They looked great against the Blues last night. I will be surprised if they don't make the play offs at this point and I'm really pulling for them.

So yes, Gabby will do well. This only underscores the point. It's about how he, Gabby feels. Which means that first and foremost it's about Gabby and NOT the team. To me, that is mainly why he is no longer a Ranger. I can't believe that some of his Ranger team mates were not tempted to give him a sound thrashing. Same with that other malcontent Richards.

You can't get away from this in modern sports unfortunately. The culture coddles and gives special privilege to professional athletes. Especially the more highly skilled and compensated. Gabby has become the cliche' out of central casting for the modern athlete. A highly paid, temperamental, head case. He'll play well for you if you don't use harsh language, don't ride his a$$ for being one dimensional, and most especially, if he feels like it. It has zero to do with if he's a Euro or not.

Dealing with this is a very fine line for any Coach or franchise to walk and Tort's is by no means the most adroit at dealing with it and is not exempt from blame to some extent. But I do think it's telling that the Rangers decided to pull the trigger on this deal and Gabby signed off on it as well.

Bottom line for me is that when an athlete decides to stop playing his best, he is quitting on his team, his mates and the fans that pay his salary. I don't see how any one who paid a nickle to watch this guy play has any sympathy for him.

####ENDRANT#####


Last edited by Pizza: 04-13-2013 at 02:57 PM.
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04-13-2013, 02:54 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by mandiblesofdoom View Post
We never know enough. First thing I'd do as GM is figure out why he was underperforming. Is he still hurt? Then wait it out if it's that kind of injury. Is he in terminal career decline? Then try to trade him while he still has value. Is it an attitude thing - does he have a big problem with the coach? If I like the coach more than him, again, I'd trade him. Is the problem being saddled with Richards as C? hmmm ....

Do we know what Gabby's problem was?
I think all that was hurt were his precious feelings.

If it was more than that, then he's made a rather remarkable recovery. He was flying all over the ice for the Jackets last night. You would not recognize him from his play from game one with the Rangers this year. Completely different player.

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04-13-2013, 03:24 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I think he will do very well in Cbus. Fresh start. Greatly reduced pressure. They looked great against the Blues last night. I will be surprised if they don't make the play offs at this point and I'm really pulling for them.

So yes, Gabby will do well. This only underscores the point. It's about how he, Gabby feels. Which means that first and foremost it's about Gabby and NOT the team. To me, that is mainly why he is no longer a Ranger. I can't believe that some of his Ranger team mates were not tempted to give him a sound thrashing. Same with that other malcontent Richards.

You can't get away from this in modern sports unfortunately. The culture coddles and gives special privilege to professional athletes. Especially the more highly skilled and compensated. Gabby has become the cliche' out of central casting for the modern athlete. A highly paid, temperamental, head case. He'll play well for you if you don't use harsh language, don't ride his a$$ for being one dimensional, and most especially, if he feels like it. It has zero to do with if he's a Euro or not.

Dealing with this is a very fine line for any Coach or franchise to walk and Tort's is by no means the most adroit at dealing with it and is not exempt from blame to some extent. But I do think it's telling that the Rangers decided to pull the trigger on this deal and Gabby signed off on it as well.

Bottom line for me is that when an athlete decides to stop playing his best, he is quitting on his team, his mates and the fans that pay his salary. I don't see how any one who paid a nickle to watch this guy play has any sympathy for him.

####ENDRANT#####
Unless you've been in the room this is just a guess on your part...I'm not defending Gabby, if it was "about him" why did we never hear this when he came over from MN? If anyone is more of an adhere to the system coach than Torts, it's LeMaire...if it was all "about him" wouldn't he have been the same way in MN?

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04-13-2013, 03:56 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Unless you've been in the room this is just a guess on your part...I'm not defending Gabby, if it was "about him" why did we never hear this when he came over from MN? If anyone is more of an adhere to the system coach than Torts, it's LeMaire...if it was all "about him" wouldn't he have been the same way in MN?
A good and absolutely correct point.

But let's consider the player for a moment. You don't just give up on a player like Marion Gaborik. That is essentially what the Rangers did. They got a decent but far from solid and secure return. Not even a 2nd round pick. They could not make a deal with another team? Think they did not try? Of course they did.

I make assumption's but I think they are more than fair. Put yourself in place of some of the guys on that team and you watch this guy night after night just going thru the motions. You know what he can do...and yet he's not doing it. Some will have more patience, sympathy and tolerance. Some will not. Some will be defenders. Some will not be. This is where divisions begin. Especially in a room where so many of the faces are new. Every one is above all expected to be professional. To try their best....and yet this guy has chosen to sulk.

....and that's just one of two.

Two of the more high profile, highest paid athletes in the sport under preforming massively, in the same locker room. You tell me that ain't tough on a teams spirit and I'll tell you your dreaming.

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04-13-2013, 07:01 PM
  #224
NY Lito
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Originally Posted by schabadoo View Post
My buddy hit the lottery one time. Complained about the taxes he had to pay.
Haha good way of putting it.

If we traded him to another contender/cap-hugging team we would be looking at a much worse return in terms of cap space.

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04-13-2013, 07:54 PM
  #225
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This team can't even complete 2 passes in a row, what else is there to talk about? The Fishsticks are skating circles around us.

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