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Is it possible that we, as a fan base, may be overreacting to this poor season?

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04-12-2013, 03:00 PM
  #51
LegionOfDoom91
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
I actually had to turn WIP off last night listening to Flyers talk. Apparently the Schenn's and Couturier are the ones to blame for this year, Bryz is GUARENTEED to get amnestied and the Flyers desperately need Briere back in the lineup. Then 10 minutes later Marc Farsetta or however you spell his name is agreeing with a guy saying that we need to trade everyone and just rebuild and that the Jeff Carter and Mike Richards deals were mistakes we should have gotten better players for them. I hate how little knowledge our media has of the sport.
I don't listen to it to get great insight on what's going on but for laughs. Last week's theme was everything was Giroux's fault and he's destined to fail as a captain here.

These were probably the same people kissing his *** last year and will go back to doing so next year if he goes back to his normal ways.

Giroux's definitely hasn't been Giroux-esk this year and deserves part of the blame for this mess this year. I'm not going to write him off so quickly when the people around him are playing equally bad.

I seriously don't understand this great myth that Philly fans are very knowledgable. All you have to do is listen to sport talk in this city for 5 minutes to understand its absolute BS.

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04-12-2013, 03:15 PM
  #52
zarley zelepukin
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I would agree that the trades were mistakes, but I don't agree that we should or could have gotten better players. It's just that the guys we got back were young. Too much was probably expected of them too soon. If their development goes off track and stagnates, then we can really blame them a few years from now.

I think Schenn has had a decent year and while I'm not sure he'll ever be as good as Richards I'm still in wait and see mode. It's ridiculous to look at a 21 and a 20 year old and act like they should be the difference between us not making the playoffs and being Cup contenders.

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04-12-2013, 03:37 PM
  #53
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The trades were a necessity thanks to homers previous moves. There wasn't much choice, we knew at the time some major pieces would be moved

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04-12-2013, 03:38 PM
  #54
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And Richards didn't blossom as a scorer until his third full season when he was 22.

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04-12-2013, 03:43 PM
  #55
zarley zelepukin
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The trades were a necessity thanks to homers previous moves. There wasn't much choice, we knew at the time some major pieces would be moved
Is that why? Or was it because they partied too much? Or because they didn't get along with the coach? Or because they had to clear space to get a goalie?

Maybe it was a bit of everything, but I don't think we'll ever really know. I think the team had other options, but that's a different discussion.

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04-12-2013, 03:48 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Weirdly, I do think it is Couturier and Schenn's fault, but without it being their fault...
Just my 2 cents here but the problem with the Flyers is the defense when healthy(not including Pronger who it's obvious is never going to play again) is average at best, once you factor in all the injuries it's hard to get past that. Hard to score when you can't get the puck out of your own zone.

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04-12-2013, 03:58 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
Is that why? Or was it because they partied too much? Or because they didn't get along with the coach? Or because they had to clear space to get a goalie?

Maybe it was a bit of everything, but I don't think we'll ever really know. I think the team had other options, but that's a different discussion.
I'll take the logical reasons over the sensationalist diarrhea spewed by the Philly media.

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04-12-2013, 09:11 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'll take the logical reasons over the sensationalist diarrhea spewed by the Philly media.
Except that the logical reason isn't really viable.

There is no logical reason to trade young 70 pt capable scorers signed to relatively cap friendly deals for "good" hockey trades.

We could have CERTAINLY kept these two and worked in Bryz's contract if that was the desire.

Its CLEAR there were extenuating circumstances, but we will likely NEVER hear what they were, because that is just poor management.

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04-12-2013, 09:45 PM
  #59
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Except that the logical reason isn't really viable.

There is no logical reason to trade young 70 pt capable scorers signed to relatively cap friendly deals for "good" hockey trades.

We could have CERTAINLY kept these two and worked in Bryz's contract if that was the desire.

Its CLEAR there were extenuating circumstances, but we will likely NEVER hear what they were, because that is just poor management.
The logic was that they garnered the absolute best return compared to anybody else we could have traded. Lots of solid young players with low cap hits came back, which just happened to be precisely what the team required to fit Bryz while also filling other roster spots.

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04-12-2013, 10:03 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The logic was that they garnered the absolute best return compared to anybody else we could have traded. Lots of solid young players with low cap hits came back, which just happened to be precisely what the team required to fit Bryz while also filling other roster spots.
Again, looking at history...logically going off the published reasons stated, players like Richards and Carter don't get traded...unless something else is in play.

There was no "hockey" reason to make this deal.

The returns we got were good, but not massive overpayments.

I can't think of any other player who has been traded in this situation without additional off ice factors.

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04-13-2013, 02:50 AM
  #61
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Kings fan, still coming in peace. You guys have to understand that we are like joined at the hip or something. Some of us follow you closely. When we got Richards, we were also going after the other Richards in a big way with big wigs flying out to court him and all that BS.

When we got Mike, we knew we got the real deal dropped in our laps and we were like OMG. Sure Simmer and Schenn were a cost and we loved Simmer as I bet you guys do, but no Mike no Stanley Cup. Period.

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The problem was Carter and even Richard to some extent did not jive in the locker room chemistry. It would have been interesting to see how it would have played out if Lavy was the one booted and not those two.

I truly believe Carter spending half a season in CBJ made him mature. Being given a "second chance" to play for a winning team like the Kings sparked a new drive then just partying in Philly's night life.
So in other words, and I've followed this from day one, Carter bad guy, Management good guy, Pronger good guy, Richards bad guy. Nice bookends.

As to Carter's maturity, maybe take a look at the two organizations and see what the differences are.

Wouldn't it behoove Management to create an atmosphere conducive to keeping these two talented players around? They also seemed to like Philly, right? Instead you got young untested and not necessarily compatable/chemistry with the players you received.

And what about the revolving door policy, you guys can name them better than me starting with Mike and Jeff, I see former Flyers that were on your team all over the place.

Didn't these guys go to the Conference Finals?

Oh, yes, and no Jeff no Cup.

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I would much rather have Voracek and Couturier than the guy who never got it done in the playoffs in Philly.
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Carter was a great Brian Campbell stick check from sending the Flyers to Game 7 in 2010. Two years later he scores two game winners, including the Stanley Cup winner, in the Final.
For the Kings.

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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Like I said, he never got done in the playoffs in Philly. 21 points in 47 games.
Management didn't support him either.

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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
still boggles my mind some people fault him for that. Niemi made a great save as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Except that the logical reason isn't really viable.

There is no logical reason to trade young 70 pt capable scorers signed to relatively cap friendly deals for "good" hockey trades.

We could have CERTAINLY kept these two and worked in Bryz's contract if that was the desire.

Its CLEAR there were extenuating circumstances, but we will likely NEVER hear what they were, because that is just poor management.
Thank you. I feel bad for Philly. We want to kick your ***** in the Finals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Again, looking at history...logically going off the published reasons stated, players like Richards and Carter don't get traded...unless something else is in play.

There was no "hockey" reason to make this deal.

The returns we got were good, but not massive overpayments.

I can't think of any other player who has been traded in this situation without additional off ice factors.
We will never know but my original point was kind of "what good fortune for the Kings when teams make moves and we benefit in such a prolific and semi-ironic way".

I think Kings fans will continue to look at Philly for a long while. Good luck.

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04-13-2013, 03:12 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by vindogla View Post
Kings fan, still coming in peace. You guys have to understand that we are like joined at the hip or something. Some of us follow you closely. When we got Richards, we were also going after the other Richards in a big way with big wigs flying out to court him and all that BS.

When we got Mike, we knew we got the real deal dropped in our laps and we were like OMG. Sure Simmer and Schenn were a cost and we loved Simmer as I bet you guys do, but no Mike no Stanley Cup. Period.



So in other words, and I've followed this from day one, Carter bad guy, Management good guy, Pronger good guy, Richards bad guy. Nice bookends.

As to Carter's maturity, maybe take a look at the two organizations and see what the differences are.

Wouldn't it behoove Management to create an atmosphere conducive to keeping these two talented players around? They also seemed to like Philly, right? Instead you got young untested and not necessarily compatable/chemistry with the players you received.

And what about the revolving door policy, you guys can name them better than me starting with Mike and Jeff, I see former Flyers that were on your team all over the place.

Didn't these guys go to the Conference Finals?

Oh, yes, and no Jeff no Cup.





For the Kings.



Management didn't support him either.





Thank you. I feel bad for Philly. We want to kick your ***** in the Finals.



We will never know but my original point was kind of "what good fortune for the Kings when teams make moves and we benefit in such a prolific and semi-ironic way".

I think Kings fans will continue to look at Philly for a long while. Good luck.
Get the **** off our board troll. Ill still trade Richie for Schenn and Simmonds everyday. The problems with this team are defensively.

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Old
04-13-2013, 11:57 AM
  #63
zarley zelepukin
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Get the **** off our board troll. Ill still trade Richie for Schenn and Simmonds everyday. The problems with this team are defensively.
It's not like Richards would be a help in our own zone, right?

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Old
04-13-2013, 04:22 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
It's not like Richards would be a help in our own zone, right?
Not enough that id want him back over Simmonds and Schenn. Simmonds was looked at as a secondary piece in this trade and has put up better numbers alone than Richie has since the trade. Keep him dont give a ****.

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