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Old
04-10-2013, 08:08 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
No. Every coach line juggles. Go watch a Boston game and watch Julien throw Jagr out with Greg Campbell and Danny Paille.
Don't lie, its only mclellan that ever shuffles the lines. No other coach in the lesgue trys to get the best out of the matchups being presented to him in game. Whatever line ups they had at practice is what they run for the entire game.

Just in case since i can't put the sarcasm emote, i am just joking.

The people who whine about the line shuffling are also the first to whine about lines not working and wondering why the coach does not change it up.

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04-10-2013, 08:12 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
Don't lie, its only mclellan that ever shuffles the lines. No other coach in the lesgue trys to get the best out of the matchups being presented to him in game. Whatever line ups they had at practice is what they run for the entire game.

Just in case since i can't put the sarcasm emote, i am just joking.

The people who whine about the line shuffling are also the first to whine about lines not working and wondering why the coach does not change it up.
I picked up the sarcasm.

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04-10-2013, 11:11 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
Don't lie, its only mclellan that ever shuffles the lines. No other coach in the lesgue trys to get the best out of the matchups being presented to him in game. Whatever line ups they had at practice is what they run for the entire game.

Just in case since i can't put the sarcasm emote, i am just joking.

The people who whine about the line shuffling are also the first to whine about lines not working and wondering why the coach does not change it up.
Line juggling is one thing, but putting Desjardins on the first line is another. Also he has a tendency to line shuffle really early in a game before players even have a chance to gel, which seems reactionary and clueless.

Last game was a perfect example of when a coach should switch up the lines, but it tends to be his go-to play even when the team isn't garbage.

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04-10-2013, 11:20 PM
  #204
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Line juggling is one thing, but putting Desjardins on the first line is another. Also he has a tendency to line shuffle really early in a game before players even have a chance to gel, which seems reactionary and clueless.

Last game was a perfect example of when a coach should switch up the lines, but it tends to be his go-to play even when the team isn't garbage.
It also sends a message. Coaches have a better feel for a team than a fan and knows when a guy is "on" or "off". If Desi is busting his ass and working..why not reward him?

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04-11-2013, 12:16 AM
  #205
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Made this a few years ago obviously, but man same ol Patty...

I've been on the get rid of him failwagon for sometime now.

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04-11-2013, 12:26 AM
  #206
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Patty is streaky.

He might get hot and score 10 goals in the next 9 games, he's on the schnide right now, hopefully he gets off it when the playoffs start. If he helps us get to the WCF, then everybody is gonna talk about how he's the best, and you'll all love him. Playwithgutz and the usual haters will suddenly disappear until he gets on a slump again.

He played well against Columbus. Don't know what was wrong in Dallas.

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04-11-2013, 12:34 AM
  #207
Gene Parmesan
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Patty is streaky.

He might get hot and score 10 goals in the next 9 games, he's on the schnide right now, hopefully he gets off it when the playoffs start. If he helps us get to the WCF, then everybody is gonna talk about how he's the best, and you'll all love him. Playwithgutz and the usual haters will suddenly disappear until he gets on a slump again.

He played well against Columbus. Don't know what was wrong in Dallas.
Well both he and Jumbo need to get rolling. Couture hasn't scored in a while either. All hands on deck for the last stretch.

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04-11-2013, 12:44 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
It also sends a message. Coaches have a better feel for a team than a fan and knows when a guy is "on" or "off". If Desi is busting his ass and working..why not reward him?
Generally, I can agree with this kind of strategy, but it doesn't work for the uber-talented types like Thornton, Marleau, Ovechkin, etc. etc.

These guys know that they aren't going to be replaced by a hard-working Pavelski, much less a hard-working Desjardins. They have to find it within themselves to play with motivation, to not slump, to improve their games, etc. Their jobs are very secure simply because of the talent level.

Long-term, the stuff you are talking about works on the second-rate talent. On the Coutures, the Pavelskis, and obviously on the Sheppards and Galiardis of the world. Because those players aren't talented enough, they need to consistently give a complete effort to be competitive. Hell, every team has prospects ready to step into 3rd/4th line roles; to steal jobs away from players like Sheppard and Galiardi.

Now, I don't think that is what is going on with SJ's top players; I don't think they too "lazy/complacent/stubborn", though sometimes I wonder. Do Thornton and Marleau have the fire of a Crosby or a Richards, or a Dan Boyle? No. But in general, these players are contributing enough for the Sharks to build around them. In any case, they are producing to their historical norms; a bad game or two aside, SJ's problems during February were definitely not on Thornton or Marleau?.

Could they have done more? Yes, but they performed as expected, and that performance should be enough for the team to build around competitively.

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04-11-2013, 01:02 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Generally, I can agree with this kind of strategy, but it doesn't work for the uber-talented types like Thornton, Marleau, Ovechkin, etc. etc.

These guys know that they aren't going to be replaced by a hard-working Pavelski, much less a hard-working Desjardins. They have to find it within themselves to play with motivation, to not slump, to improve their games, etc. Their jobs are very secure simply because of the talent level.

Long-term, the stuff you are talking about works on the second-rate talent. On the Coutures, the Pavelskis, and obviously on the Sheppards and Galiardis of the world. Because those players aren't talented enough, they need to consistently give a complete effort to be competitive. Hell, every team has prospects ready to step into 3rd/4th line roles; to steal jobs away from players like Sheppard and Galiardi.

Now, I don't think that is what is going on with SJ's top players; I don't think they too "lazy/complacent/stubborn", though sometimes I wonder. Do Thornton and Marleau have the fire of a Crosby or a Richards, or a Dan Boyle? No. But in general, these players are contributing enough for the Sharks to build around them. In any case, they are producing to their historical norms; a bad game or two aside, SJ's problems during February were definitely not on Thornton or Marleau?.

Could they have done more? Yes, but they performed as expected, and that performance should be enough for the team to build around competitively.
I wonder that myself..I don't question that they want to win..obviously they do but there are games in which they seem to coast and just aren't engaged. This time of year in a playoff dogfight that just can't happen. Marleau had his against Dallas and JT had his against CBJ. Lets hope its out of their system and they finish strong and get into the playoffs.

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04-11-2013, 01:09 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Paka Ono View Post


Made this a few years ago obviously, but man same ol Patty...

I've been on the get rid of him failwagon for sometime now.
haha thats good...this will fix Patty..


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04-11-2013, 01:12 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by PlaywithGutz View Post
haha thats good...this will fix Patty..

Please tell me you found that on the internet and you didn't actually make a Patty voodoo doll.

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04-11-2013, 01:23 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Shark Fin Soup View Post
Please tell me you found that on the internet and you didn't actually make a Patty voodoo doll.
i have used this in the past only when necessary....it is necessary...
it takes a game or two to kick in..but he should be good til game 5 of the first round...then we might have to break it out again...

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04-11-2013, 01:25 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
I wonder that myself..I don't question that they want to win..obviously they do but there are games in which they seem to coast and just aren't engaged. This time of year in a playoff dogfight that just can't happen. Marleau had his against Dallas and JT had his against CBJ. Lets hope its out of their system and they finish strong and get into the playoffs.
Dean Lombardi, not an unsuccessful man by any means, purported to me a 2002 Sharks vs. Devils finals matchup. The question was, who would you want against Stevens and Niedermayer? Selanne and Nolan or Damphousse and Ricci. What matchup would you put out?

His response was that he'd have probably suggested Damphousse and Ricci even though most people would have said Nolan and Selanne. Because you knew that while Nolan and Selanne were more closer in talent level to the Devils's twosome, and while Nolan even had the skillset to win against a guy like Stevens, Selanne and Nolan were just going to lose that matchup. You just knew it. But with players like Damphousse and Ricci, you had an inkling that they'd come up with some way to win. He never felt that with Selanne and Nolan, who would keep doing the same things over and over again, expecting different results and unwilling to adapt. However slim, you knew they had some chance. Of course Lombardi said that any coach that did that would have been ripped to shreds, when 95% of the time Damphousse and Ricci would bomb out anyways because they weren't talented enough.

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04-11-2013, 01:27 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Generally, I can agree with this kind of strategy, but it doesn't work for the uber-talented types like Thornton, Marleau, Ovechkin, etc. etc.

These guys know that they aren't going to be replaced by a hard-working Pavelski, much less a hard-working Desjardins. They have to find it within themselves to play with motivation, to not slump, to improve their games, etc. Their jobs are very secure simply because of the talent level.

Long-term, the stuff you are talking about works on the second-rate talent. On the Coutures, the Pavelskis, and obviously on the Sheppards and Galiardis of the world. Because those players aren't talented enough, they need to consistently give a complete effort to be competitive. Hell, every team has prospects ready to step into 3rd/4th line roles; to steal jobs away from players like Sheppard and Galiardi.

Now, I don't think that is what is going on with SJ's top players; I don't think they too "lazy/complacent/stubborn", though sometimes I wonder. Do Thornton and Marleau have the fire of a Crosby or a Richards, or a Dan Boyle? No. But in general, these players are contributing enough for the Sharks to build around them. In any case, they are producing to their historical norms; a bad game or two aside, SJ's problems during February were definitely not on Thornton or Marleau?.

Could they have done more? Yes, but they performed as expected, and that performance should be enough for the team to build around competitively.
Great post.

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04-11-2013, 01:32 AM
  #215
Gene Parmesan
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Dean Lombardi, not an unsuccessful man by any means, purported to me a 2002 Sharks vs. Devils finals matchup. The question was, who would you want against Stevens and Niedermayer? Selanne and Nolan or Damphousse and Ricci. What matchup would you put out?

His response was that he'd have probably suggested Damphousse and Ricci even though most people would have said Nolan and Selanne. Because you knew that while Nolan and Selanne were more closer in talent level to the Devils's twosome, and while Nolan even had the skillset to win against a guy like Stevens, Selanne and Nolan were just going to lose that matchup. You just knew it. But with players like Damphousse and Ricci, you had an inkling that they'd come up with some way to win. He never felt that with Selanne and Nolan, who would keep doing the same things over and over again, expecting different results and unwilling to adapt. However slim, you knew they had some chance. Of course Lombardi said that any coach that did that would have been ripped to shreds, when 95% of the time Damphousse and Ricci would bomb out anyways because they weren't talented enough.
Hmm interesting.

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Old
04-11-2013, 04:21 PM
  #216
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I really want to see Marleau do well tonight. We need him to....

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04-12-2013, 02:19 AM
  #217
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I really want to see Marleau do well tonight. We need him to....
From your lips to God's ear, apparently.

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04-12-2013, 01:22 PM
  #218
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He's played much better the past two games. It really is amazing how his perceived "effort" seems to come and go like a light switch. He was flying last night, something that hasn't been evident for some time now.

Hopefully he keeps it up over the coming months.

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04-12-2013, 06:09 PM
  #219
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He's played much better the past two games. It really is amazing how his perceived "effort" seems to come and go like a light switch. He was flying last night, something that hasn't been evident for some time now.

Hopefully he keeps it up over the coming months.
Yes we need P.Fatty's trade value to be sky high!


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04-12-2013, 06:26 PM
  #220
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He's played much better the past two games. It really is amazing how his perceived "effort" seems to come and go like a light switch. He was flying last night, something that hasn't been evident for some time now.

Hopefully he keeps it up over the coming months.
IMO he's been playing very well this year save for a few dead games like the recent one. Even if he hadn't been scoring, the whole team wasn't scoring either.

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04-12-2013, 08:11 PM
  #221
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He's played much better the past two games. It really is amazing how his perceived "effort" seems to come and go like a light switch. He was flying last night, something that hasn't been evident for some time now.

Hopefully he keeps it up over the coming months.
Sometimes it's effort. Sometimes it's just what his role is on a line. It's not always the same as he switches depending on the coach's discretion from being a first fore-checker to being third man high. A lot of the times when he is third man high is when his perceived effort issues get brought up because there's a lot of floating for that role as opposed to getting into the trenches.

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04-12-2013, 10:34 PM
  #222
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Ho boy another Marleau is Jesus/Devil thread

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Old
04-13-2013, 01:10 PM
  #223
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Sometimes it's effort. Sometimes it's just what his role is on a line. It's not always the same as he switches depending on the coach's discretion from being a first fore-checker to being third man high. A lot of the times when he is third man high is when his perceived effort issues get brought up because there's a lot of floating for that role as opposed to getting into the trenches.
I thought when TMac limited the ice time of JT, Burns, and Marleau vs Columbus it was warranted. Then against Detroit, Marleau got 9 additional shifts. Burns got 7 additional shifts. JT got 15 additional shifts.

Marleau has his faults, but the whole "transitional" dynamic between TMac and the top-6 this season has been... turbulent. Marleau is not the 'turd-in-the-punchbowl' that some portray.

I also thought the end of the Detroit game with Boyle "discussing" something -- loudly -- on the bench with TMac and Robinson was telling.

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04-13-2013, 01:21 PM
  #224
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I thought when TMac limited the ice time of JT, Burns, and Marleau vs Columbus it was warranted. Then against Detroit, Marleau got 9 additional shifts. Burns got 7 additional shifts. JT got 15 additional shifts.

Marleau has his faults, but the whole "transitional" dynamic between TMac and the top-6 this season has been... turbulent. Marleau is not the 'turd-in-the-punchbowl' that some portray.

I also thought the end of the Detroit game with Boyle "discussing" something -- loudly -- on the bench with TMac and Robinson was telling.
And what did you think it was "telling"?

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04-13-2013, 01:26 PM
  #225
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usuallly when a player is arguing with the coaches outside of the dressing room, things arent great in the dressing room. but we dont know what we being said, or if he was just trying to be loud enough to be heard. he is a vet after all, he probably has a voice with the coaches. so could be anything.

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