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What will it take to get Regier fired?

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04-13-2013, 01:48 PM
  #26
sabrefan27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceface33 View Post
More like in Buffalo we respect well thought out analysis instead of ranting and conspiracy theories.
Yeah that must be it. Buffalo fans don't deserve anything. The GM of the team, since the godamn mid 90's, simply has never gotten the job done and people STILL want to give him yet another chance at a rebuild. It's absurd.

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04-13-2013, 01:49 PM
  #27
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What will it take? Ruhwedel getting trucked by Simmonds and turned inside out by Giroux will most likely help.

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04-13-2013, 01:59 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
"Moves" don't make you a good GM. They make you good at negotiated trades, and drafting (although his drafting is overrated)

Each trade or pick, in a vacuum, can be good. That doesn't mean he's succeeding at his job as GM.... "moves" are just part of the job description.
True, but "team building" was done with Ruff and others involved. I don't think anyone can say that Regier just picked up pieces without considering how they would fit. Ruff was the guy for that, and would've been the one to tell Regier how he'd use certain players. For instance, who's the person that thought Leino would perform at C? I'm not even trying to shift much blame to Ruff either, my main targets would be TG/LQ, that forced certain budget or term issues into every decision, mainly forcing Regier to maintain a playoff competitor instead of a Cup competitor. Add in the small market/crappy city rep effect in UFA shopping.

I've been pretty happy with his moves since Leino (aside from Pominville but the return does justify it). What I will hold him to now is drafting and a coaching decision. There can't be any more Dennis Perssons when Nick Foligno is on the board. There can't be any busts now that the draft is so important for a proper re-build that they are finally deciding is the right path. There has to be a coach that can teach these guys and motivate them without tuning them out with redundant tirades. I think those issues will be settled by the time his contract runs out, and if nothing improves when he's got all the keys the options should be clear.

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04-13-2013, 02:05 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
"moves" are just part of the job description.
100% right. He still has to draft great, hire the right coach, hire the right scouts, get the right trainers, sign FA's, etc. He has never impressed me at any of that. I personally feel that anyone who think Darcy should be given another chance to remake this team after so tries is a complete fool. How slow witted are some people after watching a GM come up short for 16 years come to the conclusion that he just needs another 3 seasons to figure it out?

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04-13-2013, 02:07 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by chi777 View Post
100% right. He still has to draft great, hire the right coach, hire the right scouts, get the right trainers, sign FA's, etc. He has never impressed me at any of that. I personally feel that anyone who think Darcy should be given another chance to remake this team after so tries is a complete fool. How slow witted are some people after watching a GM come up short for 16 years come to the conclusion that he just needs another 3 seasons to figure it out?
"Fool"? Maybe you're a fool for not seeing or understanding everything else that's gone into the equation over the last decade.

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04-13-2013, 02:12 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Yeah that must be it. Buffalo fans don't deserve anything. The GM of the team, since the godamn mid 90's, simply has never gotten the job done and people STILL want to give him yet another chance at a rebuild. It's absurd.
Two conference finals and a cup final isn't "getting the job done"?

Let's factor in that until three years ago he was under strict financial pressure/controls, not to mention a couple years where the team was in bankruptcy and without an owner.

I'm not arguing he's a great GM and there's certainly enough reasons for people to want him gone, but I think he's still capable of building a winning team. It's not like there's a bunch of all-star GM's waiting in the wings.

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04-13-2013, 02:14 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by chi777 View Post
100% right. He still has to draft great, hire the right coach, hire the right scouts, get the right trainers, sign FA's, etc. He has never impressed me at any of that. I personally feel that anyone who think Darcy should be given another chance to remake this team after so tries is a complete fool. How slow witted are some people after watching a GM come up short for 16 years come to the conclusion that he just needs another 3 seasons to figure it out?
I want him replaced. If it were up to me he would have been gone with Lindy.

But if he impresses me with the coaching hire, draft/FA, etc going forward I can tolerate him because I don't think he's an idiot

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04-13-2013, 02:23 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
Two conference finals and a cup final isn't "getting the job done"?

Let's factor in that until three years ago he was under strict financial pressure/controls, not to mention a couple years where the team was in bankruptcy and without an owner.

I'm not arguing he's a great GM and there's certainly enough reasons for people to want him gone, but I think he's still capable of building a winning team. It's not like there's a bunch of all-star GM's waiting in the wings.
No, it isn't. That's the problem with Buffalo fans. Where are the standards? Awesome, they went to the conference finals. That was how long ago?

I knew it was a matter of time before the same old tired excuses were brought out. Too bad. He's GM, he's responsible. Period.

The fans are disgusted with the team and the players. And certain fans are advocating letting the guy who built this unlikeable team get another shot. You wonder why Buffalo never wins anything? Because of decisions like this.

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04-13-2013, 02:31 PM
  #34
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What don't people get? It's as clear as day to anyone that isn't stubborn or blind that Regier operated under ownership constraints for basically his entire time in Buffalo. Pegula knew this and made it clear that Darcy is going to be evaluated on his performance under Terry and not under Golisano/Quinn/Rigas.

When you view Darcy's body of work through that lens, your only bit of ammo is the Leino signing which has in no way hampered or hurt the club and can be erased as early as this off-season.

Abloo bloo bloo

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04-13-2013, 02:35 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Only in Buffalo will you find people defending the deadbeat GM after years of failure.
Not on THIS board, they're not.

Or on other boards I've been on.

I want him gone YESTERDAY and get someone in here who can build a winning team-hopefully, a Cup-winning one. And you aren't going to get that with Regier. Now. Or ever.

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04-13-2013, 02:44 PM
  #36
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My thoughts on Darcy:

Good trade seller (when he sells). Gets the most for his players or doesn't move them at all. This fits perfectly with the narrative that he's conservative about making big moves and tends to overvalue his own players. The flip side, though, is that he doesn't necessarily sell when it would behoove him to. There were more than a few people calling for this rebuild for a while.

Bad trade buyer. Darcy has a handful of good trade buys: (1) Briere, (2) Drury, (3) Zubrus, (4) Barnes. I don't know who else you put on that list as guys that we've picked up via trade that really helped the team much. Maybe we'll end up adding Hodgson. Again, this fits with the narrative that he's conservative and overvalues his own players.

Mediocre drafting. In 16 years, which I think means ~112 players drafted, he's picked three all-stars, if I'm not mistaken (Campbell, Vanek, Miller). A lot of wasted first round picks in that time. You have to be able to show a little higher batting average if you're going to win cups, because you build cup-winners in the draft.

Mediocre cap manager. A number of years where we were within $5M of the cap and yet weren't in the playoffs tells me that he isn't good at building bargain teams. Part of this isn't his fault, I think - he's had to overpay players because he has a bad market and a bad team to sell them. You have to pay more to keep people around when they see you letting both of your captains walk.

Briere-Drury defined his tenure. People are tired of hearing it, but the team still hasn't recovered from this, IMO. If Briere and Drury don't walk, we almost certainly make the playoffs the next two years. If Briere and Drury don't walk, we're in a much stronger position to sign FA's in the succeeding years. We still can't say we've replaced them. No GM is good enough to guarantee success. It takes some luck and patience, and Darcy had both pay off unbelievably in 2006. When that kind of fortune strikes, very few other GMs are then forced to dismantle their success. If Chicago had been forced to let Kane and Toews walk in their summer of discontent, e.g., they'd be a completely different team to this day. Briere and Drury weren't quite on that level, but they still left a resounding ripple that has affected the expectations and perception of this organization and its architect to this day.


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04-13-2013, 03:01 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
What don't people get? It's as clear as day to anyone that isn't stubborn or blind that Regier operated under ownership constraints for basically his entire time in Buffalo. Pegula knew this and made it clear that Darcy is going to be evaluated on his performance under Terry and not under Golisano/Quinn/Rigas.

When you view Darcy's body of work through that lens, your only bit of ammo is the Leino signing which has in no way hampered or hurt the club and can be erased as early as this off-season.

Abloo bloo bloo
Well, actually there's Leino... And then getting worse every year since Pegula bought the team..... Culminating with this season where we are one of the worst teams in the league.

Because its not each individual signing that matters.... It's the bottom line.

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04-13-2013, 04:12 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
"Moves" don't make you a good GM. They make you good at negotiated trades, and drafting (although his drafting is overrated)

Each trade or pick, in a vacuum, can be good. That doesn't mean he's succeeding at his job as GM.... "moves" are just part of the job description.
The only tangible thing that you can critique about a GM is whether or not his decisions make sense given the information available at the time they were made. Anything else is just hindsight-rants and directionless rage.

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04-13-2013, 04:23 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
The only tangible thing that you can critique about a GM is whether or not his decisions make sense given the information available at the time they were made. Anything else is just hindsight-rants and directionless rage.
I tend to disagree. We have so little information available in terms of what Darcy's options are at any given moment in time - what FA's or GM's make what demands - that I think any sensible evaluation starts with how well his team does. That, at least, is known.

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04-13-2013, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
The only tangible thing that you can critique about a GM is whether or not his decisions make sense given the information available at the time they were made. Anything else is just hindsight-rants and directionless rage.
Sorry but that's completely inaccurate. The only thing you can critique a GM on is wins and losses. Decisions making sense in a vacuum doesn't matter. The results of those decisions are what matters.

Hindsight is just another way of criticizing lack of foresight.

And looking at this team since Pegula took over... We have increased payroll every year... So clearly Darcy has no limitations financially. If Pegula is truly only judging him since he took over the results are:

10-11 Squeaked into the playoffs
11-12. Just missed the playoffs
12-13. One of the worst teams in the NHL



So "directionless rage" is also inaccurate. The Rage is pointed directly at the indisputable fact that we've been getting worse while spending more and having less "constraints"

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04-13-2013, 04:36 PM
  #41
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So, who is a qualified replacement?

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04-13-2013, 05:00 PM
  #42
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So, who is a qualified replacement?
That's rest up to Ted, Terry and the gang to figure out.

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04-13-2013, 05:09 PM
  #43
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That's rest up to Ted, Terry and the gang to figure out.
But their not capable of knowing that Reiger is able to do this?

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04-13-2013, 05:21 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
My thoughts on Darcy:

Good trade seller (when he sells). Gets the most for his players or doesn't move them at all. This fits perfectly with the narrative that he's conservative about making big moves and tends to overvalue his own players. The flip side, though, is that he doesn't necessarily sell when it would behoove him to. There were more than a few people calling for this rebuild for a while.

Bad trade buyer. Darcy has a handful of good trade buys: (1) Briere, (2) Drury, (3) Zubrus, (4) Barnes. I don't know who else you put on that list as guys that we've picked up via trade that really helped the team much. Maybe we'll end up adding Hodgson. Again, this fits with the narrative that he's conservative and overvalues his own players.

Mediocre drafting. In 16 years, which I think means ~112 players drafted, he's picked three all-stars, if I'm not mistaken (Campbell, Vanek, Miller). A lot of wasted first round picks in that time. You have to be able to show a little higher batting average if you're going to win cups, because you build cup-winners in the draft.

Mediocre cap manager. A number of years where we were within $5M of the cap and yet weren't in the playoffs tells me that he isn't good at building bargain teams. Part of this isn't his fault, I think - he's had to overpay players because he has a bad market and a bad team to sell them. You have to pay more to keep people around when they see you letting both of your captains walk.

Briere-Drury defined his tenure. People are tired of hearing it, but the team still hasn't recovered from this, IMO. If Briere and Drury don't walk, we almost certainly make the playoffs the next two years. If Briere and Drury don't walk, we're in a much stronger position to sign FA's in the succeeding years. We still can't say we've replaced them. No GM is good enough to guarantee success. It takes some luck and patience, and Darcy had both pay off unbelievably in 2006. When that kind of fortune strikes, very few other GMs are then forced to dismantle their success. If Chicago had been forced to let Kane and Toews walk in their summer of discontent, e.g., they'd be a completely different team to this day. Briere and Drury weren't quite on that level, but they still left a resounding ripple that has affected the expectations and perception of this organization and its architect to this day.
In the years the Sabres drafted poorly in the 1st round, look at the next ten picks....do you recognize any of them? The problem is that the Sabres have done just well enough to draft lesser players. In the NHL (more than any sport) you have to draft high to win.

A question for you... How many teams have won the cup, in the last decade, without a top two pick? More than that... How many without two or more top 4 picks?

The answer is ONE. The Red Wings...and they had AT LEAST 3 HOF'ers in the starting line-up.

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04-13-2013, 05:21 PM
  #45
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But their not capable of knowing that Reiger is able to do this?
We'll see.

I get wanting to give him a chance. As I've said, I they decide to give Darcy a chance with essentially a clean slate I'll tolerate it.

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04-13-2013, 05:30 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Briere-Drury defined his tenure. People are tired of hearing it, but the team still hasn't recovered from this, IMO. If Briere and Drury don't walk, we almost certainly make the playoffs the next two years. If Briere and Drury don't walk, we're in a much stronger position to sign FA's in the succeeding years. We still can't say we've replaced them. No GM is good enough to guarantee success. It takes some luck and patience, and Darcy had both pay off unbelievably in 2006. When that kind of fortune strikes, very few other GMs are then forced to dismantle their success.

So if Darcy was "forced to dismantle" his success, how is that on him?

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04-13-2013, 05:35 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron C. View Post

A question for you... How many teams have won the cup, in the last decade, without a top two pick? More than that... How many without two or more top 4 picks?
to answer question one: the Ducks. They didn't have any homegrown top 2 picks.

to answer question two: Last year's Kings. Doughty was their only homegrown top 2 pick.

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04-13-2013, 05:42 PM
  #48
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to answer question one: the Ducks. They didn't have any homegrown top 2 picks.

to answer question two: Last year's Kings. Doughty was their only homegrown top 2 pick.
Homegrown or not, they had Niedermayer and Pronger, both second overall selections. One they acquired because they had his brother and he wanted to help his brother win the Cup. The other was acquired for two former top-10 overall picks in Smid and Lupul, as well as 2 firsts and a 2nd. Without having bluechippers to deal, they wouldn't have gotten Pronger.

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04-13-2013, 05:48 PM
  #49
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No, it isn't. That's the problem with Buffalo fans. Where are the standards? Awesome, they went to the conference finals. That was how long ago?

I knew it was a matter of time before the same old tired excuses were brought out. Too bad. He's GM, he's responsible. Period.

The fans are disgusted with the team and the players. And certain fans are advocating letting the guy who built this unlikeable team get another shot. You wonder why Buffalo never wins anything? Because of decisions like this.
Let's play a game on 'getting it done'

The last 16 years the Eastern Conference teams have won the following amount of playoff series:

14,12,12,10,9,7,7,7,5,4,3,2,0,0,0

No one has averaged even playoff win per year. Can you identify those teams? Where do you think the Sabres are in that list? Which if any of those teams are experiencing enough consistent playoff success to 'get it done' in your mind?

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04-13-2013, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Yeah that must be it. Buffalo fans don't deserve anything. The GM of the team, since the godamn mid 90's, simply has never gotten the job done and people STILL want to give him yet another chance at a rebuild. It's absurd.
They do? My issue is with THIS ARTICLE not with Regier being fired. There's a half dozen posts in this thread alone that make better arguments for firing Regier than the article posted in the OP.

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