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What will it take to get Regier fired?

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Old
04-13-2013, 08:02 PM
  #76
Beerz
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Originally Posted by Ace1963 View Post
He doesn't "deserve" anything. These are the pros. Much better men than Regier have gotten fired. He's been an utter failure. If the owner wants to keep him, that's his business. It's bad business, but it's his business. But he won't get my business.
Good. At least you back your **** up.

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04-13-2013, 08:05 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Ace1963 View Post
He doesn't "deserve" anything. These are the pros. Much better men than Regier have gotten fired. He's been an utter failure. If the owner wants to keep him, that's his business. It's bad business, but it's his business. But he won't get my business.
What's Garth Snow? Seriously the hyperbole is out of control here.

If you want to fire Regier to send a message; or clean house or whatever that's fine. But don't act like the guy never iced a decent team. Know that firing the GM is unlikely to make the current team any better. It might help down the road.

Many of the people calling for Regier's head (particularly on the radio) seem to believe that if he was gone the current team would be better and make the playoffs last year. If you're not in it for a rebuild it doesn't make sense to just can the GM.

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04-13-2013, 08:05 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
He completely whiffed out of the gate. He spent more $$ than anyone on an awful team. I have my doubts that Darcy knows how to operate with no restrictions.


His decision on a coach will tell me everything I need to know.
You won't find a credible Hockey mind around that didn't think the Sabres were a threat in the East after Pegulas 1st year. The players have failed... he's disassembling those players.

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04-13-2013, 08:06 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by SnuggaRUDE View Post
In any endeavor with a lot of risk exposure you make decisions based on maximizing opportunity for success. Not some half blind outcome analysis.

http://pokerterms.com/results-oriented-thinking.html

If you need a business example; equity trading is the most glaringly obvious one. But even mundane actions like construction or project management use the concept of expected value.

If a team selects Jones 1st overall and he gets hit by a bus the next day; did they make the wrong choice?
You make decisions you think are correct. If they turn out not to be, over time, the only solution is to let someone else make those decisions.


Just because it's not an exact science doesn't mean there isn't an expectation of success.




Which one of our players failed because they got hit by a bus? Or because of any other circumstances other than they were bad decisions?


Last edited by Karate Johnson: 04-13-2013 at 08:11 PM.
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Old
04-13-2013, 08:11 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron C. View Post
The Ducks had Niedermayer and Pronger. The Kings had Doughty (#2) and Hickey (#4). If you are going to refute a post, do some research.

The bottom line is the Sabres have had 2 top ten picks in 26 years. Teams that win need top end drafting with players on ELCs as well as veteran talent. The Sabres need to pick high to succeed (if history is a lesson).
I did. I don't consider Nieds and Pronger as Ducks top 2-5 picks. They traded for them. Granted, they needed the assets to trade for them, but I don't give them credit for drafting those two.

I'll give ya Hickey -- I missed him. Frankly, I completely forgot he was a top 4 pick.

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Old
04-13-2013, 08:13 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
You make decisions you think are correct. If they turn out not to be, over time, the only solution is to let someone else make those decisions.


Just because it's not an exact science doesn't mean there isn't an expectation of success.
Then you're back to what decisions did he make that were bad?

I can think of 5 that were bad:

1). The Peca Situation. If Regier was responsible for this he should be gone
2). Hasek. Same as #1
3/4). Drury and Breire. I'm willing to give him a pass on this, as the owner made him slit his own throat
5). Matching Vanek OS. Same as above, but damn do I wish they saw how 3 and 4 were incompatible.

**edit**
6). If Regier made the decision to cut the Scouting department and switch to video scouting. (rescinded in the TP era)
The rest of his sticky spots I agree with his solutions.

Whoever is GM they have a huge problem with how to resolve the impending UFA of Vanek and Miller. I'm scared that if TP brings in a new GM they will need to instantly justify their existence and turn this into a #7 or #8 hockey club; handcuffing the Sabres for a decade.


Last edited by SnuggaRUDE: 04-13-2013 at 08:21 PM. Reason: #6
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Old
04-13-2013, 08:20 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by SnuggaRUDE View Post
What's Garth Snow? Seriously the hyperbole is out of control here.

If you want to fire Regier to send a message; or clean house or whatever that's fine. But don't act like the guy never iced a decent team. Know that firing the GM is unlikely to make the current team any better. It might help down the road.

Many of the people calling for Regier's head (particularly on the radio) seem to believe that if he was gone the current team would be better and make the playoffs last year. If you're not in it for a rebuild it doesn't make sense to just can the GM.
Decent doesn't cut it when "the Buffalo Sabres reason for existence, [is] to win a Stanley Cup."

And people want him fired because of the team on the ice not because they think it would be better this year without him.

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04-13-2013, 08:23 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Pondslider View Post
Decent doesn't cut it when "the Buffalo Sabres reason for existence, [is] to win a Stanley Cup."

And people want him fired because of the team on the ice not because they think it would be better this year without him.
If the team's true goal is win the cup; then this team is gonna stink on ice until 2015.

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04-13-2013, 08:27 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SnuggaRUDE View Post
If the team's true goal is win the cup; then this team is gonna stink on ice until 2015.
I could get behind the team being terrible for a few years and stockpiling high picks if I thought the people in charge had a clue about how to build a champion. I don't.

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04-13-2013, 08:29 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Pondslider View Post
I could get behind the team being terrible for a few years and stockpiling high picks if I thought the people in charge had a clue about how to build a champion. I don't.
who built the team from 2005-2006? That was a championship caliber team.

We should hire whoever that was.

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04-13-2013, 08:35 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by SnuggaRUDE View Post
who built the team from 2005-2006? That was a championship caliber team.

We should hire whoever that was.
I missed the championship parade.

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04-13-2013, 08:38 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Pondslider View Post
I missed the championship parade.
Welcome to professional sports. The best team doesn't always win.

Jay Feaster won in Tampa. Want to pry him out of Calgary? Otherwise the other recent cup winners are still with their franchises. If the only GM you'll accept is one who has won a cup (and hence has a clue how to build a champion) you're in for a wait.

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04-13-2013, 08:43 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by SnuggaRUDE View Post
Welcome to professional sports. The best team doesn't always win.
That's sweet and all, but when Darcy had his chance he lost to a team that went out and tried to get better by adding Doug Weight and Mark Recchi during the season.

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04-13-2013, 08:51 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Pondslider View Post
That's sweet and all, but when Darcy had his chance he lost to a team that went out and tried to get better by adding Doug Weight and Mark Recchi during the season.
Ok that's cool. You want someone else because he didn't make a big deadline acquisition. That I can understand. But he's clearly been capable of building a good team.

And right now we need team building more then we need timely veteran acquisitions at trade deadlines.

He's already pulled off step 1 (again).
Ship a sparkly power forward for a #1 center.

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04-13-2013, 09:27 PM
  #90
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So we aren't allowed to use our crappy teams Before Pegula, but the 2 good teams before Pegula are fair game?


How often has a GM, in any sport, stayed in a job for over 15 years without winning a championship, and gone on to win a championship?

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04-13-2013, 09:37 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by SnuggaRUDE View Post
Then you're back to what decisions did he make that were bad?

I can think of 5 that were bad:

1). The Peca Situation. If Regier was responsible for this he should be gone
2). Hasek. Same as #1
3/4). Drury and Breire. I'm willing to give him a pass on this, as the owner made him slit his own throat
5). Matching Vanek OS. Same as above, but damn do I wish they saw how 3 and 4 were incompatible.

**edit**
6). If Regier made the decision to cut the Scouting department and switch to video scouting. (rescinded in the TP era)
The rest of his sticky spots I agree with his solutions.

Whoever is GM they have a huge problem with how to resolve the impending UFA of Vanek and Miller. I'm scared that if TP brings in a new GM they will need to instantly justify their existence and turn this into a #7 or #8 hockey club; handcuffing the Sabres for a decade.
1. This was a front office decision. Someone played hardball and I doubt Darcy was the final call.
2. Hasek.. I hated the return. Hasek wanted to leave a sinking ship and he had the upper hand. The return was Kozlov and Paille(minus a 2nd)...this stunk.
3. Briere wanted to stay. He told me and I believed him. His kids were with mine, but for some reason the Williamsville School district (according to Danny) placed his kids into a program for children with English as a 2nd language. He and Sylvie sent the kids to private school as a result. Larry Quinn wanted Drury and Danny was left hanging. I would have taken the Flyers offer every day of the week as well.
5. All of the above forced the Sabres hands. I agreed at the time.. they had to re-sign Vanek after losing Drury/Briere. My preference would have been keeping Briere and grabbing EDM's 4 1sts.
6. You have no idea what you are talking about. This was not a negative.
7. For those of you that dislike Darcy's drafting, look at his misses and then look at the next 10 picks.... do you recognize any of them?

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Old
04-13-2013, 09:39 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Ron C. View Post
The Ducks had Niedermayer and Pronger. The Kings had Doughty (#2) and Hickey (#4). If you are going to refute a post, do some research.

The bottom line is the Sabres have had 2 top ten picks in 26 years. Teams that win need top end drafting with players on ELCs as well as veteran talent. The Sabres need to pick high to succeed (if history is a lesson).
I fail to see how Hickey is the least bit relevant to the Kings' success since he never ever played a single game for them.

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04-13-2013, 09:43 PM
  #93
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If a GM is going to build a championship team it happens before thier 16th season.

"but the 05-06 team would have won but they got injured"

That still isn't winning, but that's OK. Had the 05-06 Sabres won the cup, and then the next 8 years played out the same I still wouldn't want Darcy back.

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04-13-2013, 09:51 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by SnuggaRUDE View Post
Ok that's cool. You want someone else because he didn't make a big deadline acquisition. That I can understand. But he's clearly been capable of building a good team.

And right now we need team building more then we need timely veteran acquisitions at trade deadlines.

He's already pulled off step 1 (again).
Ship a sparkly power forward for a #1 center.
Hodgson is decent but let's not pretend that he's Toews or something. It's a fine trade but it's not like trading gritty players for smallish skilled forwards is something Darcy hasn't been doing his entire time here.

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04-13-2013, 09:56 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by dotcommunism View Post
I fail to see how Hickey is the least bit relevant to the Kings' success since he never ever played a single game for them.
Hickey is not relevant except for the fact that he was a top 4 pick (otherwise the criteria would have been 2 top 3 picks). On a side note, Jack Johnson (top 3 pick) acquired Jeff Carter. Once again, the point is the Sabres have picked in the top 10 twice in 26 years. Pick high and have a shot at top end talent.

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04-13-2013, 09:58 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
If a GM is going to build a championship team it happens before thier 16th season.

"but the 05-06 team would have won but they got injured"

That still isn't winning, but that's OK. Had the 05-06 Sabres won the cup, and then the next 8 years played out the same I still wouldn't want Darcy back.
so if Darcy had built a cup winner and management had forced him to dismantle it you still would have blamed him? But no I see your point just because the team Darcy built won a presidents and made it to the ECF before a financial decision forced him to take it apart is a sign that he was at fault.

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04-13-2013, 10:20 PM
  #97
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This whole notion that Darcy isn't to blame for anything after 07 is mind boggling. Its not like the Sabres didn't spend any money. They spent a ton of money on the wrong players. He still picked Drury to try to retain instead of Briere and lost them both. He still confidently went into the next season with his "core" and failed. And kept failing. He lost two centers in 07 and didn't get anybody to replace them. Why doesn't he get deserve any blame for that? He is the GM isn't he? Isn't that his job?

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04-13-2013, 10:28 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Pondslider View Post
This whole notion that Darcy isn't to blame for anything after 07 is mind boggling. Its not like the Sabres didn't spend any money. They spent a ton of money on the wrong players. He still picked Drury to try to retain instead of Briere and lost them both. He still confidently went into the next season with his "core" and failed. And kept failing. He lost two centers in 07 and didn't get anybody to replace them. Why doesn't he get deserve any blame for that? He is the GM isn't he? Isn't that his job?
Nobody says he isn't to blame for anything, that's just hyperbole. I'm not sure who Regier "picked" (if that's what happened at all), but it doesn't matter because he was put into a bad scenario and ultimately guess what?? It was up to B and D to decide to go. One of them could've gotten over their ******** feelings and decided to stay. Turns out Drury wanted to play out his boyhood fantasy with NYR and had no intentions of re-signing. Regier didn't go "confidently" into that next season, he flat out said the team wouldn't be as good. Top centers don't come cheap and don't get traded without a ransom, so blame 20 some other GMs for not acquiring top Cs over the last few years too.

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04-13-2013, 10:30 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Pondslider View Post
This whole notion that Darcy isn't to blame for anything after 07 is mind boggling. Its not like the Sabres didn't spend any money. They spent a ton of money on the wrong players. He still picked Drury to try to retain instead of Briere and lost them both. He still confidently went into the next season with his "core" and failed. And kept failing. He lost two centers in 07 and didn't get anybody to replace them. Why doesn't he get deserve any blame for that? He is the GM isn't he? Isn't that his job?
He does deserve blame. He signed Leino when Richards was not an option, he traded for an out of shape Torres, Dominic Moore with a broken wrist and a over the hill Rivet. He overvalues his own players to a fault and has sat on players (Stafford) who could have been sold at a higher value.

On the other hand, he has drafted well for his draft position. He has gotten good value with trades (except when options were non-existent...Hasek). On the whole, I have no issues with Regier as GM.

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04-13-2013, 10:32 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
Nobody says he isn't to blame for anything, that's just hyperbole. I'm not sure who Regier "picked" (if that's what happened at all), but it doesn't matter because he was put into a bad scenario and ultimately guess what?? It was up to B and D to decide to go. One of them could've gotten over their ******** feelings and decided to stay. Turns out Drury wanted to play out his boyhood fantasy with NYR and had no intentions of re-signing. Regier didn't go "confidently" into that next season, he flat out said the team wouldn't be as good. Top centers don't come cheap and don't get traded without a ransom, so blame 20 some other GMs for not acquiring top Cs over the last few years too.
They lowballed Briere right before free agency and were prepared to match Drury's deal in NY but you're right he didn't want to stay. It's not about going out and getting top centers. Go out and get any centers. Go get a checking center. Go get someone that can play center so that Ales Kotalik and Jochen Hecht don't have to.

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