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Old
04-13-2013, 03:13 PM
  #26
HawksFan74
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Sharp if he went to UFA would have gotten 6.5M easy on market ,, He took a discount to stay in Chicago

Sharp would have been #1 FA on market and would have had teams fighting for him
None of this matters. Point is what already committed and Toews and Kane coming up. Cap needs to be up over 70 million by the time T/K come due. Have to resign Leddy and make decisions on other players. Goalie will be one of them.

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04-13-2013, 03:46 PM
  #27
Sir Psycho T
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Sharp if he went to UFA would have gotten 6.5M easy on market ,, He took a discount to stay in Chicago

Sharp would have been #1 FA on market and would have had teams fighting for him
He wouldn't have been the top FA on the market. Parise and Suter would always have been ahead of him.

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04-13-2013, 04:28 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
None of this matters. Point is what already committed and Toews and Kane coming up. Cap needs to be up over 70 million by the time T/K come due. Have to resign Leddy and make decisions on other players. Goalie will be one of them.
As the Hawks roster currently stands, by the time Toews and Kane come due for raises the Hawks have only 4 players on the roster (Keith, Seabrook, Hossa, Sharp) and 22.5 million cap dollars committed. From the '05-'06 season to '11-'12 the cap rose on average 8.7%. Assuming its raises by half of that percentage for the '14-'15 and '15-'16 seasons the cap will be at 70 million by the time Toews and Kane need raises.

Saad is the only player on the roster that will command a big raise by the time Toews and Kane are due for theirs. Leddy will certainly get a raise, but it won't be more than 2 million above his current cap hit. Hammer would certainly be nice to keep and probably will be given reasonable contract demands. Everyone else on the team is fairly to easily replaceable and not under contract longer than T and K.

The Hawks will have no problem keeping Toews and Kane and the rest of the core together past the '14-'15 season.

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04-13-2013, 05:55 PM
  #29
Marotte Marauder
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I do not want a core with a 34/35 year old Sharp nor a 38 year old Hossa.

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04-13-2013, 07:14 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
How many people thought Keith's seemingly low 4% shooting percentage would continue after 10-11? Last year it went down again to sub 3, and there it remains.
Keiths shooting percentage seems to fluctuate a lot anyway and I'm not sure comparing the shooting percentages of a dman and a forward is valid.

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04-13-2013, 07:19 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Tayvaan View Post
Keiths shooting percentage seems to fluctuate a lot anyway and I'm not sure comparing the shooting percentages of a dman and a forward is valid.
outside of 08-09 he averaged like 6% until the past 2 seasons

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04-13-2013, 08:28 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
I do not want a core with a 34/35 year old Sharp nor a 38 year old Hossa.
That will be Sharp's last year under contract and I highly doubt the Hawks re-sign him.

As for Hossa, well, there are no easy solutions. The Hawks will probably have to buy him out after the '16-'17 season meaning that he and Sharp would leave at the same time.

At that point in time neither player will be 'core' going forward.

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04-13-2013, 09:06 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
6.5 to 5.9 isn't a big leap. That's not much of a hometown discount when the money is locked in and guaranteed. A hometown discount would have been signing like a 6 year deal @ 4.5 per.
The so-called hometown discount is usually pretty small (~10%) outside of special circumstances. The obvious ones are guys at the end of their career that have already made bank and want to retire with their team and/or contend for a cup (also the twins so they could play together on a contending team.)

But asking a guy in his prime money-making contract to "pay" $10m, or ~20% of his income to play in his "hometown" is nuts. I don't understand why some guys leave good situations to take a little more, but I do understand why players don't accept big discounts where the money they leave on the table ends up going to others paid in full (or the owner's pocket.)

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04-13-2013, 09:09 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
Bowman is not, nor should he, going to trade sharp
This.

The guy is a crucial part of this team and when he's not lighting up the scoreboard he's still very responsible in his own end and setting up great plays. I will admit though that with the emergence of Saad losing a player of Sharp's caliber wouldn't be quite as devastating but we have no idea if Saad's just having one of those rookie seasons or if he'll keep up this level of play. Either way this team would be much better off with both...as our record shows.

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04-13-2013, 09:09 PM
  #35
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Because a "little more" using your ten percent of a six million dollar contract is six hundred thousand reasons per.

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04-13-2013, 09:34 PM
  #36
LarmerSavardSecord
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Originally Posted by topnotch View Post
That will be Sharp's last year under contract and I highly doubt the Hawks re-sign him.

As for Hossa, well, there are no easy solutions. The Hawks will probably have to buy him out after the '16-'17 season meaning that he and Sharp would leave at the same time.

At that point in time neither player will be 'core' going forward.
A buyout would be pretty dumb unless he's a useless player. It wouldn't save any net cap hit as by then they would have already accrued all of the the new CBA front-loading penalty.

HOF players can play into their late-30s/early 40s. The only reason why Hossa wouldn't be able to play effectively in his late 30s is because he is injured. Injured players (even if this means able to play but too degraded to want to) and under contract don't retire under the new CBA, they go on LTIR (Pronger as a 35+ contract under the old CBA is a good example) and collect decent money to "rehab."

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04-13-2013, 10:01 PM
  #37
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He's still a difference maker IMO.

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04-13-2013, 10:13 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by SchruteFarms View Post
He's still a difference maker IMO.
but not so often recently (before his injury, i mean).

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Old
04-13-2013, 10:18 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topnotch View Post
That will be Sharp's last year under contract and I highly doubt the Hawks re-sign him.

As for Hossa, well, there are no easy solutions. The Hawks will probably have to buy him out after the '16-'17 season meaning that he and Sharp would leave at the same time.

At that point in time neither player will be 'core' going forward.
i doubt they buy hossa out. and bear in mind that the cap is going to start going up again fairly soon which will lessen the impact of his cap hit.

hossa strikes me as one of those players who will remain effective until he decides to retire. he also plays the type of game where, if it gets to the point where he can't play top-6, he could definitely play on the 3rd line...but, still...he could also have a lot of staying power in the top 6 for a while longer.

a big benefit to hossa is he does pretty much everything well.

as far as sharp goes, i hope he picks things up next year. he's far more "one note" than hossa is and has a habit of "disappearing" in a way that hossa doesn't.

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04-13-2013, 10:39 PM
  #40
LarmerSavardSecord
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Because a "little more" using your ten percent of a six million dollar contract is six hundred thousand reasons per.
That's right, and that's my point - he did give up real money to stay. But he got the standard deal: ~$600k/yr less cash for NMC (though now standard for top players), security if he's hurt before the deal kicks in, stability and continuity in his personal and professional life, play for a great team etc. It's a perfectly fair tradeoff for both sides. It's great to get a steal but it's not smart to low-ball proven people.

I do have a problem understanding the guys that simply go to the highest bidder. I'm not saying they are wrong - they have their own motivations in life - but that sensibility is a mystery to me (and I worked on Wall Street for 12 years)

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04-13-2013, 10:49 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by LarmerSavardSecord View Post
That's right, and that's my point - he did give up real money to stay. But he got the standard deal: ~$600k/yr less cash for NMC (though now standard for top players), security if he's hurt before the deal kicks in, stability and continuity in his personal and professional life, play for a great team etc. It's a perfectly fair tradeoff for both sides. It's great to get a steal but it's not smart to low-ball proven people.

I do have a problem understanding the guys that simply go to the highest bidder. I'm not saying they are wrong - they have their own motivations in life - but that sensibility is a mystery to me (and I worked on Wall Street for 12 years)
I agree with this, the mercenaries are a different breed and it does seem to resonate with quite a few people who aren't from North America originally and that's not an insult to them at all, completely understandable. Security of home, remaining with similar faces, feeling wanted and sponsorships would rank pretty high to me if I was in their position. So much can go wrong when you jump ship.

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04-13-2013, 11:03 PM
  #42
topnotch
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i doubt they buy hossa out. and bear in mind that the cap is going to start going up again fairly soon which will lessen the impact of his cap hit.

hossa strikes me as one of those players who will remain effective until he decides to retire. he also plays the type of game where, if it gets to the point where he can't play top-6, he could definitely play on the 3rd line...but, still...he could also have a lot of staying power in the top 6 for a while longer.

a big benefit to hossa is he does pretty much everything well.

as far as sharp goes, i hope he picks things up next year. he's far more "one note" than hossa is and has a habit of "disappearing" in a way that hossa doesn't.
I suggested the regular buyout because I thought it might save money from Hossa's recapture penalty. Since it won't (if Hossa retires in 2017) then there is no reason to.

I will say that if Hossa decides he wants to play past the 2016-17 season it would make more sense to buy him out after the 2016-17 season rather than face the recapture penalty. This is due to how the recapture penalty is currently calculated. Edit: Or the other option is to let Hossa play the extra years then buy him out rather than face recapture penalty.

My guess is that Hossa retires once his contract is reduced to 1 million and the Hawks are stuck with his 4.6 million recapture for four years. Hopefully that amount is only about 6% or less of the total cap.


Last edited by topnotch: 04-13-2013 at 11:09 PM.
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Old
04-14-2013, 12:42 AM
  #43
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Even with moving Bolland the Hawks don't have enough cap room next year to do all that.
Hogwash!

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04-14-2013, 12:59 AM
  #44
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Bolland is the player I move in the off season. I would resign Bickell, Stalberg, Rozsival & Emery. Crawford is worth his contract, and if Emery takes the reigns in the playoffs I find a way to keep Emery with a raise and move Crawford before next season.
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Even with moving Bolland the Hawks don't have enough cap room next year to do all that.
the Hawks aren't doing too bad re cap space - right now (excl. buy outs) they're at $5,876,538. If you assume a buy out of Montador and Olesz that puts them at $11.9m. for 13/14. it would be great to dump bolland - hypothetically if we dumped him at the draft to move up w/ our own 1st round pick (meaning we weren't taking back salary)...that would put us at $15.3.

whether moving bolland like that is plausible or not...the point is that we do have more manoeuvre-ability than people are claiming.

however...i wouldn't even bother doing what Land of Lincoln suggests...I wouldn't re-sign Bickell at all (get a prospect from Rockford to fill in). Emery - we won't be able to re-sign him. He's proven his worth this year and will be able to command a bigger salary elsewhere than we could justifiably pay him. Same w/ Stalberg - I actually like him - but he's going to be able to command a bigger salary as a UFA than i'd want us to pay him.

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04-14-2013, 08:11 AM
  #45
madgoat33
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I agree with this, the mercenaries are a different breed and it does seem to resonate with quite a few people who aren't from North America originally and that's not an insult to them at all, completely understandable. Security of home, remaining with similar faces, feeling wanted and sponsorships would rank pretty high to me if I was in their position. So much can go wrong when you jump ship.
lol okay don cherry. suter and parise went to highest biddet and weber signed an offer sheet specifically designed with the goal of putting him out of reach for Nashville.

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04-14-2013, 08:58 AM
  #46
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He wouldn't have been the top FA on the market. Parise and Suter would always have been ahead of him.
Yep. It's a pretty big dropoff from Parise and Suter to Sharp. Let's be honest here. And right now Suter looks like the odds on to win the Norris trophy.

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04-14-2013, 04:57 PM
  #47
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Still, Sharp would have gotten 6.5+ million AND a NMC from a team on the open market. Suter or not, look at what Semin got and what Doan got offered

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04-14-2013, 05:11 PM
  #48
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hossa strikes me as one of those players who will remain effective until he decides to retire. he also plays the type of game where, if it gets to the point where he can't play top-6, he could definitely play on the 3rd line...but, still...he could also have a lot of staying power in the top 6 for a while longer.
Pretty much this. We have a Selanne in Hossa. Barring injury he'll play his full contract out for Chicago and still put up decent numbers.

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04-14-2013, 05:13 PM
  #49
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I have a feeling that Bickell will be signable if you do the same as his last contract: give him term and security in exchange for money. Maybe 6-8 years with an NMC, ~$2m / yr.

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04-14-2013, 05:15 PM
  #50
massivegoonery
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hossa strikes me as one of those players who will remain effective until he decides to retire.
The second part of that is the main problem with Hossa; if he decides to retire before the last year of his deal, the Hawks have to eat an $18m penalty.

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