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Wild gets Jason Pominville, '14 4th for Larsson, Hackett 13' 1st + '14 2nd Part 2

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Old
04-13-2013, 01:45 PM
  #551
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Originally Posted by Blizzard6411 View Post
One clip of Roy entering the zone with a man advantage? That is your declaration of why the Wild should have gone after Derek Roy?
Uhh dude? that's why I linked you the thread...

I am not saying the wild should have gone after roy, I am just saying that roy has not been poor like some people on here have said.

In all fairness, he just had a pretty bad game today.


Last edited by Lucbourdon: 04-13-2013 at 04:24 PM.
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04-13-2013, 04:36 PM
  #552
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Johan Larsson 4 GP, 1 goal, 2 assists + 2 (season 66 GP, 16 goals, 24 assists for 40 points)
Matt Hackett 1 GP, 1.85 GAA .951 SV% (season 44 GP 2.64 GAA, .908 SV%)

I didn't realize Larsson had 40 points in the AHL and 12th in rookie scoring.

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04-13-2013, 06:33 PM
  #553
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We gave up a lot but we have a ton of good prospects. I like the trade. I wasn't as high on Larsson/Hackett as others. JP is a stud when on his game and if we get Vanek because of this trade then GMCF is god.

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04-13-2013, 11:08 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by thestonedkoala View Post
Johan Larsson 4 GP, 1 goal, 2 assists + 2 (season 66 GP, 16 goals, 24 assists for 40 points)
Matt Hackett 1 GP, 1.85 GAA .951 SV% (season 44 GP 2.64 GAA, .908 SV%)

I didn't realize Larsson had 40 points in the AHL and 12th in rookie scoring.
??? Point is? You didn't realize that his AHL stats are mediocre? Or you're claiming they're great? BTW, he's 13th in rookie scoring. Chris Brown has far more goals (25 to 16) in 4 fewer games played.

How about these stats - Zucker 55 gp, 24G, 50 pts, 4th in rookie scoring with only 55 games, AHL rookie 1st team. Its not like we traded Zucker and a 1st for Pominville.

The Wild has Kuemper and Gus waiting in the wings. I'll say it again, Hackett was clearly expendable, the Wild was and still is fat in goalie prospects.

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04-13-2013, 11:16 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
Uhh dude? that's why I linked you the thread...

I am not saying the wild should have gone after roy, I am just saying that roy has not been poor like some people on here have said.

In all fairness, he just had a pretty bad game today.
??? again. Roy has 1 assist in 5 games with Van according to NHL.com stats. I haven't seen him play yet with the nuckers, but 1 assist in 5 games seems kind of weak to me.

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04-13-2013, 11:33 PM
  #556
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Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
??? Point is? You didn't realize that his AHL stats are mediocre? Or you're claiming they're great? BTW, he's 13th in rookie scoring. Chris Brown has far more goals (25 to 16) in 4 fewer games played.
Actually they aren't mediocre for a young Swede not know for his offensive talent. His talent isn't so bad at all.

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The Wild has Kuemper and Gus waiting in the wings. I'll say it again, Hackett was clearly expendable, the Wild was and still is fat in goalie prospects.
We have two now. And they are still relatively unknown prospects. Hackett would have made a nice backup next year and this. Around the league Hackett was still seen as a superior prospect to Kuemper.

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04-13-2013, 11:44 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by thestonedkoala View Post
Hackett was still seen as a superior prospect to Kuemper.
Says you. The way the two were handled this year tells me the Wild clearly had Kuemper ranked above Hackett. And Gus is playing great, his stock is shooting through the roof from what I read.

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Actually they aren't mediocre for a young Swede not know for his offensive talent. His talent isn't so bad at all.
I agree. I like Larsson and his game. I think it's likely he's going to be a solid NHL 3rd Line Center someday. But when you can get a 30 year old, super durable, two time 30 goal scorer, previous year All Star for a couple prospects and a 1st rounder, and the prospects are one of three of your goalie prospects and a guy who might never score much in the NHL... Not such a bad deal.

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04-13-2013, 11:46 PM
  #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
Says you. The way the two were handled this year tells me the Wild clearly had Kuemper ranked above Hackett. And Gus is playing great, his stock is shooting through the roof from what I read.
To be honest, he said "around the league...", not necessarily on Fletcher's eyes.

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04-13-2013, 11:56 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
Says you. The way the two were handled this year tells me the Wild clearly had Kuemper ranked above Hackett. And Gus is playing great, his stock is shooting through the roof from what I read.
This year. Remember the hype around Hackett last year and the fact this team had terrible talent when he was playing. You can't judge a player, especially a goaltender in this league by one year or you become the Flyers. BTW I've been a huge JG fan and considered him the best talent out of the three years before, so I know how good Gus can be.

The other thought is that Hackett was seen as the better talent but expendable for some bizarre reason.

Quote:
I agree. I like Larsson and his game. I think it's likely he's going to be a solid NHL 3rd Line Center someday. But when you can get a 30 year old, super durable, two time 30 goal scorer, previous year All Star for a couple prospects and a 1st rounder, and the prospects are one of three of your goalie prospects and a guy who might never score much in the NHL... Not such a bad deal.
I won't get into this but that is binary thinking at its best.

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04-13-2013, 11:58 PM
  #560
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You have to think about what WE gave up, not what Buffalo got.

We gave up a future third line center, a goalie prospect we don't need, and might never have used, a first rounder that, at the time, was going to be a late rounder, and a late second rounder.

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04-14-2013, 12:07 AM
  #561
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But you have to ask yourself what was the purpose of the trade. We plug one hole but we spring three more. If this trade was to make the Wild more of a threat in the playoffs you're thinking too far ahead.

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04-14-2013, 12:13 AM
  #562
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Originally Posted by thestonedkoala View Post
But you have to ask yourself what was the purpose of the trade. We plug one hole but we spring three more. If this trade was to make the Wild more of a threat in the playoffs you're thinking too far ahead.
But we didn't spring three more holes. Hindsight 20/20, yeah, now that we're slipping, it'd be nice to have our first round pick. However, we still have a solid stockpile of prospects, and the first isn't as valuable to us as it was three years ago.

We definitely don't have a goalie hole. We still have Backstrom, Kuemper is pretty close to NHL ready, and Gustaffson is coming over next year. Yeah, they're not for certain, but neither is Hackett.

Larsson, yeah, maybe a hole here. But that depends on how Phillips does. I know people on here aren't sold on him anymore, but if he can turn into half the player he was projected to be, he'll be a solid third line center. I really don't think losing Larsson is that big of a deal, even if he would have been a nice player to have.

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04-14-2013, 12:16 AM
  #563
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Originally Posted by J StClair28 View Post
But we didn't spring three more holes. Hindsight 20/20, yeah, now that we're slipping, it'd be nice to have our first round pick. However, we still have a solid stockpile of prospects, and the first isn't as valuable to us as it was three years ago.

We definitely don't have a goalie hole. We still have Backstrom, Kuemper is pretty close to NHL ready, and Gustaffson is coming over next year. Yeah, they're not for certain, but neither is Hackett.

Larsson, yeah, maybe a hole here. But that depends on how Phillips does. I know people on here aren't sold on him anymore, but if he can turn into half the player he was projected to be, he'll be a solid third line center. I really don't think losing Larsson is that big of a deal, even if he would have been a nice player to have.
Phillips can't be any worse than Brodziak that's for sure.

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04-14-2013, 12:21 AM
  #564
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Phillips can't be any worse than Brodziak that's for sure.
Exactly. IMO Phillips floor is Brodziak.

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04-14-2013, 12:27 AM
  #565
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Weren't we comparing Phillips to Bruno? That's not a bad kind of player to have if we can put the right linemates around him.

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04-14-2013, 02:16 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by thestonedkoala View Post
But you have to ask yourself what was the purpose of the trade. We plug one hole but we spring three more. If this trade was to make the Wild more of a threat in the playoffs you're thinking too far ahead.
How did the acquisition of Pommer cause other holes? We gave up how many roster players?

I would have much rather seen Fletch acquire a solid Dman. How many Dmen moved at the deadline? Any 30 year old, previous year All Stars move?

Pommer makes this a better team this year and for sure at least next year. That's a bad thing?

It is very logical to reason Pommer would/will help the team get into the Playoffs this year, which is huge after missing the playoffs for so many years. And it's also huge to the bottom line. What's the latest on the value of each home Playoff game? Years ago it was $2-3 mil. Just getting into the Playoffs can be the difference between losing money and making a profit for the season.

No doubt Fletch would have loved to acquire a stud Dman. But it appears none were available. So because you don't get your 1st option, you should fold the tent? Or take advantage of another opportunity to improve the team? Prospects and draft picks are like money. Great to horde a bunch, but sometimes you have to spend to get what you want/need.

But that must be more binary thinking! You don't go there, you'd rather deal in hyperbole and superlatives - Fletch "panicked!" Oh my, oh my, the future is ruined! because we lost one of three goalie prospects and our 5th or 6th best skater prospect...

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04-14-2013, 02:18 PM
  #567
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Originally Posted by J StClair28 View Post
Exactly. IMO Phillips floor is Brodziak.
Hardly. Brodz is a legit NHL journeyman grinder. It is very possible, I'd say likely, that Phillips is never going to make it in the NHL at all.

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04-14-2013, 02:41 PM
  #568
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Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
How did the acquisition of Pommer cause other holes? We gave up how many roster players?

I would have much rather seen Fletch acquire a solid Dman. How many Dmen moved at the deadline? Any 30 year old, previous year All Stars move?

Pommer makes this a better team this year and for sure at least next year. That's a bad thing?

It is very logical to reason Pommer would/will help the team get into the Playoffs this year, which is huge after missing the playoffs for so many years. And it's also huge to the bottom line. What's the latest on the value of each home Playoff game? Years ago it was $2-3 mil. Just getting into the Playoffs can be the difference between losing money and making a profit for the season.

No doubt Fletch would have loved to acquire a stud Dman. But it appears none were available. So because you don't get your 1st option, you should fold the tent? Or take advantage of another opportunity to improve the team? Prospects and draft picks are like money. Great to horde a bunch, but sometimes you have to spend to get what you want/need.

But that must be more binary thinking! You don't go there, you'd rather deal in hyperbole and superlatives - Fletch "panicked!" Oh my, oh my, the future is ruined! because we lost one of three goalie prospects and our 5th or 6th best skater prospect...
Thank you....I agree 100%

I also think some Wild fans are undervaluing Jason Pominville. Maybe that's because he played out East, not sure....but you don't get a guy like him at his age, skill level, and contract status at the deadline for mere peanuts.

Did we overpay? Surely, but we could afford to with the number of quality prospects we have in the pool.

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04-14-2013, 03:23 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
How did the acquisition of Pommer cause other holes? We gave up how many roster players?

I would have much rather seen Fletch acquire a solid Dman. How many Dmen moved at the deadline? Any 30 year old, previous year All Stars move?

Pommer makes this a better team this year and for sure at least next year. That's a bad thing?

It is very logical to reason Pommer would/will help the team get into the Playoffs this year, which is huge after missing the playoffs for so many years. And it's also huge to the bottom line. What's the latest on the value of each home Playoff game? Years ago it was $2-3 mil. Just getting into the Playoffs can be the difference between losing money and making a profit for the season.

No doubt Fletch would have loved to acquire a stud Dman. But it appears none were available. So because you don't get your 1st option, you should fold the tent? Or take advantage of another opportunity to improve the team? Prospects and draft picks are like money. Great to horde a bunch, but sometimes you have to spend to get what you want/need.

But that must be more binary thinking! You don't go there, you'd rather deal in hyperbole and superlatives - Fletch "panicked!" Oh my, oh my, the future is ruined! because we lost one of three goalie prospects and our 5th or 6th best skater prospect...
Agreed..I would have gladly gave up what St. Lious did for Bouwmeester..but I think he's a pending UFA and Fletcher didn't want to do a rental. Pominville will be huge for us next year as well and if we sign him long term

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04-14-2013, 04:19 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
How did the acquisition of Pommer cause other holes? We gave up how many roster players?
With Brodziak failing as much, with Harding continually on the IR, yes, there are holes on this roster. We're counting on Kuemper (who has ONE HALF of a solid season in the AHL) to be the backup next year? Harding, who we have no idea his status? We're expecting to have who? Next year as call up for center? Phillips?

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I would have much rather seen Fletch acquire a solid Dman. How many Dmen moved at the deadline?
A few.

Quote:
Any 30 year old, previous year All Stars move?
Couple older guys like Iginla and Jagar.

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Pommer makes this a better team this year and for sure at least next year. That's a bad thing?
Black and white thinking here.


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No doubt Fletch would have loved to acquire a stud Dman. But it appears none were available. So because you don't get your 1st option, you should fold the tent? Or take advantage of another opportunity to improve the team?
In some cases, yes. Why rush to grab a guy when you're team is still building and developing?

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Prospects and draft picks are like money. Great to horde a bunch, but sometimes you have to spend to get what you want/need.
True but given this was a transition year for the Wild, it wouldn't have hurt the organization to wait one more bloody year to figure out what is going on.

Quote:
But that must be more binary thinking! You don't go there, you'd rather deal in hyperbole and superlatives - Fletch "panicked!" Oh my, oh my, the future is ruined! because we lost one of three goalie prospects and our 5th or 6th best skater prospect...
Fletcher did panic. The team was starting to slide, so he threw what he could to try and patch a minor issue instead of letting this team develop.

We lost our 2nd best center prospect and our most developed goaltending prospect.

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04-14-2013, 04:24 PM
  #571
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Hardly. Brodz is a legit NHL journeyman grinder. It is very possible, I'd say likely, that Phillips is never going to make it in the NHL at all.
And I'd say you're wrong.

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04-14-2013, 04:26 PM
  #572
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I'm done talking about this guys. You have your opinions. I have mine.

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04-14-2013, 04:42 PM
  #573
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I don't think Phillips will ever be an NHL 3rd line center. But I think he'll be an NHL player. He's exactly where reasonable people expected him to be when he was drafted.

He'll be in the AHL next season, and maybe the season after that. When he's 22-23, he's got a good shot of making the team when Cullen is gone and if Granlund hasn't locked out the 2nd top-6 center spot.

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04-14-2013, 04:59 PM
  #574
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Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
How did the acquisition of Pommer cause other holes? We gave up how many roster players?

I would have much rather seen Fletch acquire a solid Dman. How many Dmen moved at the deadline? Any 30 year old, previous year All Stars move?

Pommer makes this a better team this year and for sure at least next year. That's a bad thing?

It is very logical to reason Pommer would/will help the team get into the Playoffs this year, which is huge after missing the playoffs for so many years. And it's also huge to the bottom line. What's the latest on the value of each home Playoff game? Years ago it was $2-3 mil. Just getting into the Playoffs can be the difference between losing money and making a profit for the season.

No doubt Fletch would have loved to acquire a stud Dman. But it appears none were available. So because you don't get your 1st option, you should fold the tent? Or take advantage of another opportunity to improve the team? Prospects and draft picks are like money. Great to horde a bunch, but sometimes you have to spend to get what you want/need.

But that must be more binary thinking! You don't go there, you'd rather deal in hyperbole and superlatives - Fletch "panicked!" Oh my, oh my, the future is ruined! because we lost one of three goalie prospects and our 5th or 6th best skater prospect...
Great post.

I 100% agree.

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04-14-2013, 06:09 PM
  #575
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Agreed..I would have gladly gave up what St. Lious did for Bouwmeester..but I think he's a pending UFA and Fletcher didn't want to do a rental. Pominville will be huge for us next year as well and if we sign him long term
Bouwmeester's got another year like Pominville but Calgary didn't absorb any of his contract so you'd be looking at 2.18M more cap-space required for him(after you factor in Buffalo's absorbtion) and we could barely fit Pominville after Buffalo absorbed a portion.

Given our cap situation, we couldn't do anything significant after acquiring Pominville without sending equal cap back, and I would agree with GMCF that trying to add to our #1 line was more important than our #2 d-pair, though I wouldn't have paid this price for Pominville.

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