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What will it take to get Regier fired?

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Old
04-13-2013, 10:39 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
so if Darcy had built a cup winner and management had forced him to dismantle it you still would have blamed him? But no I see your point just because the team Darcy built won a presidents and made it to the ECF before a financial decision forced him to take it apart is a sign that he was at fault.
My point is I don't care what happened 7 years ago.


Since Darcy was set free we've gotten worse. We are now worse than we ever have been before Pegula took the handcuffs off.

Darcy Worship is weird.

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04-13-2013, 10:39 PM
  #102
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So now replacing B and D with a checking C would've made a difference?

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04-13-2013, 10:44 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
So now replacing B and D with a checking C would've made a difference?
Replacing 2 Centers with 2 Centers instead of Hecht and Kotalik might have been a good idea.




Again... This whole conversation is crazy. A GM who has nothing to show for 16 years is apparently irreplaceable to some.

Darcy isn't special. He isn't. Weird.

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04-13-2013, 10:46 PM
  #104
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Kotalik did not play center anyway, unless there was an injury. Hecht proved to be capable at C. "Special"? Your words and your characterization. He's not special, just competant.

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04-13-2013, 11:04 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron C. View Post
The Kings had Doughty (#2) and Hickey (#4). If you are going to refute a post, do some research.
I just did a little "research". Hickey never played a game with the Kings. No way he can count towards your theory.

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04-13-2013, 11:06 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Replacing 2 Centers with 2 Centers instead of Hecht and Kotalik might have been a good idea.




Again... This whole conversation is crazy. A GM who has nothing to show for 16 years is apparently irreplaceable to some.

Darcy isn't special. He isn't. Weird.
What's special is when someone makes a stupid and facile argument then gets called out for it and thinks the other person is defending Darcy. Your point was poorly articulated, poorly supported and detracts from the position of informed Darcy haters. Either do it right or leave it to people who do. Roster composition and his beloved head coach are were Darcy falls short. He makes excellent trades and is innovative an effective in the draft. Due to the financials of a bankrupt organization he was unable to hold 2 stanely cup capable rosters together. And you say you don't care why happened 7 years ago then open up with 2 incidents that happened 14 years ago and followed it up with 2 incidents from 5 years ago.

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04-13-2013, 11:10 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
My point is I don't care what happened 7 years ago.


Since Darcy was set free we've gotten worse. We are now worse than we ever have been before Pegula took the handcuffs off.

Darcy Worship is weird.
A valid point would be, he should have known that those players weren't capable of making that next step and made sure TP was aware of that before they tried to turn the roster into a contender.

Putting words in people's mouthes is wierd. You should make sure you're clear on the words coming from your mouth first.

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04-13-2013, 11:41 PM
  #108
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I have no desire to debate someone who believes the results don't matter. I got to that line and stopped reading.
Strawman. Not surprising, you can't argue against the real content of the post. Point out where in my post you found that line. I never said results don't matter.

Results are a product of a GM's decisions and innumerable other intervening factors. Unless you can point to specific poorly made decisions, you are blaming the GM for things he isn't culpable for.

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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Obviously trading Gaustad last year and Poms this year make us worse.

Why were we in the position that we needs to trade those guys? Darcy's failure leading up to te deadline is why we had to move Pominville.
We added Ehrhoff, Regehr, and Leino to a team that showed promise during the 2nd half of the 2010-11 season/playoffs. Adding to that team was the right call given the information available at the time. 2011-12 team was powerful on paper but vastly underperformed. Pulling the plug at the 2012 deadline and beyond was also the right call given the information available at the time. Go fish.

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04-13-2013, 11:41 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
My point is I don't care what happened 7 years ago.


Since Darcy was set free we've gotten worse. We are now worse than we ever have been before Pegula took the handcuffs off.

Darcy Worship is weird.
I'm struggling with it as well. He's drafted great players and he's certainly good at getting value in trades, but there's no getting around the fact that this pile of crap is the team that he built.

Not replacing a defensive center and banking on long shots for rookies and converted wingers to be sound offensive pivots is an obvious problem, and potentially the difference in the handful of points separating this team from a playoff position. Further, once the ship is headed toward the rocks he's never been able to react turn it in time. The problem just sits there and he is unable to attempt to address it until the deadlines or the draft.

We saw it happen years ago with depth at D, with his costly costly pace to recognize the need to negotiate in season, the years and years that this team with the physical presence of a drawer of ladies under garments, not recognizing that you might need one or two actual centers to play the position of center, etc.

Getting value in trades and at the draft is great, but I'm tired of having a GM that can't make the adjustments necessary to make a good team great, or to at least get a bubble team the support that it needs before it's too late.

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04-14-2013, 03:38 AM
  #110
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This idea that Darcy should be able to survive because of '05-'07 is ridiculous.

The way that team was constructed just happened to coincide with some rule changes coming out of the lockout that benefited smaller, faster teams. The only premeditated post-lockout Darcy moves were pickups at the trade deadline those two years. Nothing stellar there.

Also, the President's Trophy team that Darcy defenders love to point to, was already cooling off WITH Drury and Briere still on board. That team performed best in the 2nd half of the '05-'06 season and the first half of '06-'07. They had been playing very close games and found ways to come back and win...but that ability eventually waned, and that PT team barely got past the Rangers in round 2 and were almost swept by the Sens in the ECF.

THEN Drury and Briere left.

Darcy has really NOT shown that he has the ability to be the architect of a championship-contending team.

He's had enough time. More than enough time---unless you believe the other 29 teams in the league don't know what they're doing when they fire coaches and GM's. Only Buffalo understands that a GM is like a fine wine...and needs at least a generation to fully mature.


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04-14-2013, 03:59 AM
  #111
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Regier's never had this much power or freedom to throw that much money around (Suter and Parise offers). None of Buffalo's past owners have ever said, "Build me a winner no matter the cost". We don't have cheap and tyrannical owners anymore. I like Darcy's effort to get into bidding wars for proven commodities, and I think he's acquired some top quality pieces this season. It seems as though this is only the beginning of a slew of dramatic change.

I don't honestly feel that Regier's ever had the chance to build what he firmly believes is a winner.

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04-14-2013, 04:51 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Squantosawuss View Post
This idea that Darcy should be able to survive because of '05-'07 is ridiculous.

The way that team was constructed just happened to coincide with some rule changes coming out of the lockout that benefited smaller, faster teams. The only premeditated post-lockout Darcy moves were pickups at the trade deadline those two years. Nothing stellar there.

Also, the President's Trophy team that Darcy defenders love to point to, was already cooling off WITH Drury and Briere still on board. That team performed best in the 2nd half of the '05-'06 season and the first half of '06-'07. They had been playing very close games and found ways to come back and win...but that ability eventually waned, and that PT team barely got past the Rangers in round 2 and were almost swept by the Sens in the ECF.

THEN Drury and Briere left.

Darcy has really NOT shown that he has the ability to be the architect of a championship-contending team.

He's had enough time. More than enough time---unless you believe the other 29 teams in the league don't know what they're doing when they fire coaches and GM's. Only Buffalo understands that a GM is like a fine wine...and needs at least a generation to fully mature.

Hfboards, where people supporting your opinion make you wish you had a different opinion so you wouldn't be lumped into the same group as them.

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04-14-2013, 05:14 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by wearegodawful View Post
Regier's never had this much power or freedom to throw that much money around (Suter and Parise offers). None of Buffalo's past owners have ever said, "Build me a winner no matter the cost". We don't have cheap and tyrannical owners anymore. I like Darcy's effort to get into bidding wars for proven commodities, and I think he's acquired some top quality pieces this season. It seems as though this is only the beginning of a slew of dramatic change.

I don't honestly feel that Regier's ever had the chance to build what he firmly believes is a winner.
Darcy can build a regular season winner but I've lost faith that he can make that last move to put his team over the top. I doubt his ability to manage the cap well enough movin into a contending season to allow himself the freedom to even attempt that move. Last season when we were supposed to be a threatening team we were so close to the cap that even if injuries hadn't piled up we would have been hard pressed to make a beneficial cap in cap out move. Im not in this for a playoff run, it's about a cup run and Darcy legs aren't what they used to be. Given how many teams peak and then never get a second shot I don't want to waste the next run on a poorly managed cap. It's something to talk about the kind of experience 17 years on the job can give you but he doesn't have that kind of experience wielding a limitless cash flow under a cap. In the end he's made too many mistakes for me to trust him to learn how to manage this properly.

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04-14-2013, 07:37 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
What's special is when someone makes a stupid and facile argument then gets called out for it and thinks the other person is defending Darcy. Your point was poorly articulated, poorly supported and detracts from the position of informed Darcy haters. Either do it right or leave it to people who do. Roster composition and his beloved head coach are were Darcy falls short. He makes excellent trades and is innovative an effective in the draft. Due to the financials of a bankrupt organization he was unable to hold 2 stanely cup capable rosters together. And you say you don't care why happened 7 years ago then open up with 2 incidents that happened 14 years ago and followed it up with 2 incidents from 5 years ago.
I don't need much to support Moving on from Darcy. The long view... He's never won anything. The short view.... We've gotten worse over the last 3 years.

That's it. In professional sports that more than just cause to fire a front office.



Specific to your post... Regiers major shortcomings are roster composition and coach selection? That is his entire job in a nutshell. If a GM is ba at building a roster and picking a coach he's a bad GM. He might be a good trader and a good drafter(debatable) but that doesn't make you a good GM.

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04-14-2013, 07:46 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
Strawman. Not surprising, you can't argue against the real content of the post. Point out where in my post you found that line. I never said results don't matter.

Results are a product of a GM's decisions and innumerable other intervening factors. Unless you can point to specific poorly made decisions, you are blaming the GM for things he isn't culpable for.



We added Ehrhoff, Regehr, and Leino to a team that showed promise during the 2nd half of the 2010-11 season/playoffs. Adding to that team was the right call given the information available at the time. 2011-12 team was powerful on paper but vastly underperformed. Pulling the plug at the 2012 deadline and beyond was also the right call given the information available at the time. Go fish.
Specific decisions in no particular order:

Adding Regher. Adding Leino. Signing Stafford. Not trading Stafford. Mismanaging Dumont, Drury, and Briere. Getting nothing for Campbell. Adding Rivet. Never having a backup goalie. Retaining Ruff entirely too long. Never adding that final piece during our good years. Not addressing the hole trading Roy left. Keeping Grigorenko. Betting on FES after 10 decent games. bringing Hecht back. Signing Myers to a stupid contract.

I'm sure I can think of more but I'm bored.


But yeah... He's made plenty of bad decisions, and they culminate in this glorious season.

It doesn't matter of Darcy thought they were te right moves at the time. He's paid to have foresight. When a GM's decisions don't pan out you get the 2013 Sabres.

If a GM continue makes the wrong decision resulting in an awful team, the logical next step is to get someone else to make those decisions.

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04-14-2013, 08:51 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wearegodawful View Post
Regier's never had this much power or freedom to throw thamuch money around (Suter and Parise offers). None of Buffalo's past owners have ever said, "Build me a winner no matter the cost". We don't have cheap and tyrannical owners anymore. I like Darcy's effort to get into bidding wars for proven commodities, and I think he's acquired some top quality pieces this season. It seems as though this is only the beginning of a slew of dramatic change.

I don't honestly feel that Regier's ever had the chance to build what he firmly believes is a winner.
How come we were one of top spending teams in the past three seasons? Darcy now has nobody to tie his spending down and he has shown in the two offseasons to use this power and he has underwhelmingly been using it on taking away skill without replacing it in letting Roy go for Ott. I like the move, but the fact he did nothing to address the skill that he let go. Instead of giving himself a security blanket if Grigorenko didn't work out is something other successful gm's do. That is why the more successful teams can slowly bring their kids up when they're ready. In fact his inability to fill necessary holes when he traded Robyn, Jordan and Jason. He didn't bring any roster players back even if it was a guy that would play a dozen games. Sure he was building for the future, but he put himself in a position where if there was an jury on the backend he would be rushing a player that wasnt ready for action on the big club.

It seems he really doesn't have a pulse on his team. The fact this team has imploded on itself has been happening since Timmy was on the team. These players stopped playing for ruff a while ago. Instead of getting rid of one or two players he should've found out the real issue and cut it out from the beginning. Darcy has been a reactionary GM. If the issue was the coach then he should've fixed it instead of letting it lingering for multiple seasons. The league was turning into a bigger and faster league since the hurricanes won the cup. Darcy, as usual was 5 years too late and has only recently been trying to make us to fit the playing style.

I personally don't care about the wins when talking about the GM, because for years this team has been having the same problems. I don't feel comfortable giving him any more seasons. The type of GM he is is the reason why I don't want him. His inability to spend his "unlimited money" wisely, his inability to frees issues with the team, and his too loyal to his players to a fault is what his tenure has been up to this point, and 16 years of this regardless of how many years terry has been at the helm, should pretty much should show he's not going to change. Darcy has always had one of the smaller quicker teams even when the evidence of bigger more mobile players are the way to go.

I have not seen ANYTHING that has changed my opinion that they should retain him or that he really is changing in how he handles business.

Underneath it all, I think it boils down to two things people are afraid that buffalo might find a GM that is worse than Darcy and don't want to take the risk, or some people are sick of seeing the same product. Every night and Darcy is the common denominator.

As much as I hear people say give Darcy a chance I would like to think that maybe we should give Ted and Terry the chance to bring in their own Gm. Outside the product on the ice, they have done nothing but good. Lets give them a chance to put their finger print on this team. I truly don't think they have done this, with fans still bringing up past failures of previous ownerships and the only the person tied to all of them is Darcy.

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04-14-2013, 09:09 AM
  #117
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I just did a little "research". Hickey never played a game with the Kings. No way he can count towards your theory.
It's not a theory, it is what it is. Except for the Wings, every team in the past decade (going back to before the 1st lockout) has had a top 2 pick on their roster and has drafted twice or more in the top 4. Because the Kings "reached" for Hickey instead of taking Gagner, Voracek or Couture does not change the fact. The Kings also drafted Brayden Schenn at #5, but that fell out of the criteria.

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04-14-2013, 11:41 AM
  #118
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Hfboards, where people supporting your opinion make you wish you had a different opinion so you wouldn't be lumped into the same group as them.
I agree. Your defense of DR is embarrassing. Yes, he's not completely incompetent, but neither is any GM. Stop being such an apologist for DR and work on apologizing instead to the posters you so gratuitously insult around here.

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04-14-2013, 12:34 PM
  #119
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Regier has been given the reins to rebuild this team. Akin to the team getting a fresh start under his tutelage, he'll be getting a fresh start, too.

He'll get fired if the team doesn't take noticeable steps forward in the next couple of seasons. That's all it boils down to.

He's done a good job with the rebuild thus far.

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04-14-2013, 12:37 PM
  #120
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We are still in the tear-down portion of the rebuild.

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04-14-2013, 12:40 PM
  #121
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We are still in the tear-down portion of the rebuild.
Yup. And considering the returns he got for Leopold, Regehr and Pominville, Regier's done a very good job.

And while it's still too early to tell if they'll pan out, he's got some very good young prospects in the system (Grigorenko, Girgensons, McCabe, Armia, Larsson etc.).

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04-14-2013, 12:51 PM
  #122
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Darcy stubbornly built a team around a core group of guys that obviously didn't have what it takes to be successful once they lost their co-captains. He cast his lot with the Vanek contract, when he should have started the rebuild then and there.

As far as I can tell, Darcy has already had his second chance to atone for July 1, 2007. He has had six years to build a winner since that day, two years of that with a blank check, and things only got worse.

Yes, he made some shrewd trades and brought in a lot of talent, but good GMs shouldn't be making lots of trades. They should be signing the awesome players they have developed and acquired to affordable contracts. Or they should be losing trades at the deadline because they are stocking up for a Cup run. Or they should be firing their coaches when the team they assembled isn't playing anywhere near its potential.

You can't say a guy is a good GM because he got high returns on a deadline day fire sale. The trades Darcy made this year were easy - he had assets, and other teams had needs that they were willing to overpay for. It's sad that people are so elated that we traded Pominville, an excellent player and person the organization invested years developing, and one of the few guys truly worth keeping, for draft picks and prospects that may or may not yield anything worthwhile for many years. To me, this trade was just a sign of how pathetic this team has become under Regier.

The bottom line is that Darcy has had many, many years (and now many, many dollars) to build a contender, and here we are six years removed from anything that could be considered a successful season. And frankly, he got lucky with the '05-'07 teams. Nobody thought that roster would do anything special.

It's time for a fresh set of eyes for the franchise.


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04-14-2013, 01:04 PM
  #123
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We are still in the tear-down portion of the rebuild.
I agree with that. Buffalo needs to make upgrades to the future team, not the current one, and the best way to do that is trade players like Miller and Vanek. They'll bring prospects and picks that can add to that future team.

Going to get more ugly before it gets mo better.

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04-14-2013, 02:09 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
I just don't know what specific recent moves anyone can point to that were so bad.

Gaustad = 1st
Kassian = Hodgson
Roy = Ott
Pominville = Larsson Hackett 1st 2nd
Regehr = 2nd 2nd
Leopold = 2nd
Ehrhoff @ 4M/y
Drafts Armia, Grigs, Girgs

The only ones that really stick out as bad are Leino and maybe Boyes.
You forget Boyes for a 2nd (???)

Leopold was for a 2nd + a 4th/5th (depending on ST Louis playoff run)

Ehrhoff cost Buffalo a 4th for his exclusive rights.



As for Regier.......

I have said this on prior threads....

1. He is STRONG when it comes to trading in a sellers market and he is the seller.

2. He is STRONG when it comes to secondary player trades (Drury trade, Brierre trade).

3. He is VERY POOR when it to moving players on his own club (see Stafford and Afinaganov). He doesnt want to move players when they are hot or is asking too much, but when they are cold he asks for to much.

4. He really SUCKS when it comes to acquiring players for a cup run when he is the buyer. Just look at 05-06 and 06-07 clubs. Look at what Pittsburgh did this year. Buffalo could have done something similar and likely won the cup. Even outside the cup run years when he has acquired a veteran player at the deadline has usually been a disaster.

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04-14-2013, 02:27 PM
  #125
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I think he's not proactively searching for trades. He waits for the phone to ring. Says, "Hello! Everything is available." Then waits for it to ring again for proposals.

But maybe that's how it works when you're a seller. It shouldn't.

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