HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Article about our centers futures.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-14-2013, 03:28 AM
  #151
The_Chosen_One
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
(65pts? )35 in 2011 and 40 in 2012.

But there were 100 guys who hit 50pts last year. With too many big profile names to mention missing the list.

BEsides Bozak is not a 50-60pt guy. He is a 40-50pt guy. (he played between 2 ppg game players for 60+ games last year. he managed 47pts.)
PLaying between Kessel and Lupul/JVR should be an easy 60pts. If you have talent.

We simply need a better offensive talent to make our top line truly one to fear.
Scoring has been falling generally. Regardless, 47 pts over 73 games is top-six. It isn't necessarily elite, but I'd take him over the other overrated centres available in the upcoming free agency. If we can acquire Berglund, Couts or even Sam Gagner, I'd have no problems.

The_Chosen_One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 03:35 AM
  #152
The_Chosen_One
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
YOu gotta hit at least close to 60 to be considered 50-60.


HE is a 40-50pt guy on a top line. Take away his elite wingers and he would be a 30pt 3rd liner which is what he should be.
I think his production would stay more-or-less the same. It'd be akin to suggesting that Jordan Staal's production ought to fall because he's no longer with Crosby and Malkin. And yes, he was being slotted in the wing regularly due to their poor depth in that position. In fact, Jordan produced 26 pts, the same as Bozak.

The_Chosen_One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 03:41 AM
  #153
The_Chosen_One
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodybr3ak View Post
Bozak is great IMO.

I say let Kadri continue to grow as our #1 and let bozak be our #2. Kadri is really starting to look like an elite talent.

JVR-Bozak-Kessel doesn't officially have to be our first line.
It's probably going to be our first line for a while. The line is considered the greatest threat even with Lupul on Kadri's line. We don't really require a first line centre with Kessel, just a big centreman who thrives in traffic and has a shot.

Someone like Sundin would be perfect. Too bad he's gone. Guys like him don't play like orthodox playmaking centres like Oates and Savard. In fact, Kessel plays more like one, but with a nose for the net.

The_Chosen_One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 08:03 AM
  #154
The Apologist
Kessel Supporter
 
The Apologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Soviet Kanukistan
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
(65pts? )35 in 2011 and 40 in 2012.

But there were 100 guys who hit 50pts last year. With too many big profile names to mention missing the list.

BEsides Bozak is not a 50-60pt guy. He is a 40-50pt guy. (he played between 2 ppg game players for 60+ games last year. he managed 47pts.)
PLaying between Kessel and Lupul/JVR should be an easy 60pts. If you have talent.

We simply need a better offensive talent to make our top line truly one to fear.
That doesn't ring true at all. My point was that a first line is rarely made up of three high offence players on strong teams. Especially on teams who spread their offence around like the Leafs. We have a balanced attack, with two (possibly three if Grabo recovers) very skilled lines.
Bozak statistically is not only a top 6 producer, he's (admittedly lower end) top line.
We need to get over this belief that every single player needs to be the best in the league at his position to be useful. It simply isn't realistic.

The Apologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 08:13 AM
  #155
The Blue Devil
Registered User
 
The Blue Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
Bozak at a hometown discount will cost a minimum $4M/yr and if it is that low it'll be max 2-years.

Most likely that is the hardball line Leafs brass will take in negotiations.

I'm sorry, but for all the fans out there that'll undoubtedly think that is ridiculous money/term, look at what Bozak does on this team.

Centers the first line. Lupul-Bozak-Kessel was great last year. This year JVR-Bozak-Kessel are just as great. Bozak is fantastic at feeding these guys and playing responsible hockey.

He is a beast on faceoffs, plays 1st unit PK and 1st unit PP.

There is NO ONE in the organization that does that. Letting an asset like that walk for FREE is insane.

Weiss is not the same calibre of centreman. He won't have the impact that Bozak does because he won't be relied upon for the PK and he's not any more proven as a 1C than Bozak or anyone else available for the Leafs.
I know I'm hard on him, but saying that he is fantastic at feeding them is a pretty big stretch.

The Blue Devil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 08:17 AM
  #156
The Blue Devil
Registered User
 
The Blue Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight K Schrute View Post
He has 26 points in exactly half a season... so 52 over a full year.

50-60 seems about right
Grabo's hit that benchmark for 4 straight season's not playing with PPG line-mates and people want to buy him out(by that I mean his PPG pace).

The Blue Devil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 08:21 AM
  #157
The Blue Devil
Registered User
 
The Blue Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
I think his production would stay more-or-less the same. It'd be akin to suggesting that Jordan Staal's production ought to fall because he's no longer with Crosby and Malkin. And yes, he was being slotted in the wing regularly due to their poor depth in that position. In fact, Jordan produced 26 pts, the same as Bozak.
BIG DIFFERENCE! Staal played on the 3rd line, with 3rd line talents and minutes and managed to put up 50+ points, while Bozak has played on the top line, with top line and top PP minutes with PPG players and still struggles to hit 50 points.

The Blue Devil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 08:40 AM
  #158
Sundinisagod
Nylanderwillbeagod
 
Sundinisagod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 7,714
vCash: 500
Grabo's contract will push Bozak's to the 5 million per range with us.

Grabo's poor season makes signing Bozak more critical.

Grabo will be a 3rd line c making 5.5 next season, he will be be gone sometime next season or the summer of 2014 if he his play doesn't rebound to where it was the previous couple seasons.

My 2 cents.

Sundinisagod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 08:57 AM
  #159
SpeakerForTheDead
Registered User
 
SpeakerForTheDead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brampton/Chicago
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,869
vCash: 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
BIG DIFFERENCE! Staal played on the 3rd line, with 3rd line talents and minutes and managed to put up 50+ points, while Bozak has played on the top line, with top line and top PP minutes with PPG players and still struggles to hit 50 points.
Staal consistently averaged close to 20 mins a game on the Penguins.

__________________
bWo -- Minister of Foreign Affairs
SpeakerForTheDead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 09:24 AM
  #160
The Blue Devil
Registered User
 
The Blue Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeakerForTheDead View Post
Staal consistently averaged close to 20 mins a game on the Penguins.
The point still stands.

The Blue Devil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 09:45 AM
  #161
deuce457
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 361
vCash: 500
as it stands right now the leafs have $19.5M to spend on 12 roster players, however amnesty komisarek and that becomes $24M for 13 people, which is about $1.8M per player they sign.

assuming Kadri is getting $3.5M, you cant pay Bozak $4M and still have Grabovski on the same team, that is way too much money tied up in bozak and grabo for one of them to be on the 3rd line when the cap is going down. One of them has to go.

I have wrote this in another thread, I personally do not like bozak but I would keep him over grabovski. the FA market is weak for centres this year, so try and move grabo for a pick and maybe a player, sign Bozak hopefully for $3.5M per season for 3 years, if you have to go 4 then i could live with that. Go out and try and sign Horton (way safer option then clarkson), ya he has an injury history, but he has played this entire season.

lupul/kadri/horton
jvr/bozak/kessel

that is a decent top 6 until the leafs draft and develop a top 6 centre to replace bozak.

deuce457 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 09:48 AM
  #162
deuce457
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 361
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
Scoring has been falling generally. Regardless, 47 pts over 73 games is top-six. It isn't necessarily elite, but I'd take him over the other overrated centres available in the upcoming free agency. If we can acquire Berglund, Couts or even Sam Gagner, I'd have no problems.
gagne???? this team is small enough up front, why would you want him?? Edmonton is going to have to let him walk because gagne, yakupv, hall and eberle are all midgets and they need some size in their top 6. The leafs need bigger forwards to compliment kessel, lupul and kadri, not small soft players.

deuce457 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 10:02 AM
  #163
Mystifo
Lol Doodle.
 
Mystifo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: YYT
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 2,820
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
Scoring has been falling generally. Regardless, 47 pts over 73 games is top-six. It isn't necessarily elite, but I'd take him over the other overrated centres available in the upcoming free agency. If we can acquire Berglund, Couts or even Sam Gagner, I'd have no problems.
Berglund: Sure but good luck with that St.Louis is in the same boat as us.

Couts: Eh not sure he is our #1 C answer but I would be okay if the price is right.

Gagner: No way. Not sold on him at this point. Guy is way too streaky and we have a Gagner his name is Grabovski and he has shown to be consistent over the past 3 seasons as a 50 pts player.

Mystifo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 11:23 AM
  #164
IBLEAF
17 CLARK-SON 71
 
IBLEAF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: BARRY'S BAY
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,539
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
We may end up with him. There was that rumour a few years ago that he would only waive his NTC to come to Toronto. McClement took a discount to come here. Now I'm not expecting Weiss to take a discount to come here, but given similar offers from multiple teams, he may prefer Toronto as the destination.

Just depends if Nonis thinks the price is right. 6M is too much for Weiss IMO. He's coming off of a bad season, and even historically is barely better than Grabo. My only interest is that he would be a definite upgrade over Bozak to play with Kessel, and his playing style unlike Grabo's would probably mesh with Kessel a bit more.

So if Grabo could get moved. I would personally prefer Weiss at a similar contract over Grabo.

JVR-Weiss-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-MacArthur
Kulemin-Bozak-Frattin
Orr-McClement-McClaren

Looks like a better balanced line up than what we currently have. Weiss would fit better on that 1st line. Bozak would do well in the checking line role, and likely get paid more appropriately for it, while also helping out on the PK unlike Grabo. And if Kadri eventually shows he can be a #1 C, then Weiss becomes the 2nd line C, which he is more appropriate for.
Mac wont be back next year

IBLEAF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 11:47 AM
  #165
StanleyTOR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 61
vCash: 500
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I am a huge believer in Joe Colborne. He might not be the 1C we have envisioned him to be when we acquired him, but I definitely think he has the potential to break camp for the 3C slot. Big body, made strides again this season, soft hands for a big man.

Personally, I like Grabo, but I honestly think he should be traded. Hefty contract, but I think he can get us a mid-late first rounder in the upcoming draft? We need some talent back in our junior farm -- we're pretty shallow there.

Bozak, Kadri, Colborne, McClement? Need also another solid veteran center to provide some experience perhaps.

I'd sign Bozak at 4.5/yr 3-4 years max.

StanleyTOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 11:54 AM
  #166
nuck
Axis of Evil
 
nuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: North Korea
Posts: 5,015
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
I think his production would stay more-or-less the same. It'd be akin to suggesting that Jordan Staal's production ought to fall because he's no longer with Crosby and Malkin. And yes, he was being slotted in the wing regularly due to their poor depth in that position. In fact, Jordan produced 26 pts, the same as Bozak.
I think they have given Staal more top 6 minutes in Carolina than he ever got in Pittsburgh. Play the brothers together etc. Now Tlusty has proven the better finisher, as his early career with the Leafs suggested he could be. I dont think they thought they were trading for a third line guy but thats really what he is.

nuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 11:56 AM
  #167
nuck
Axis of Evil
 
nuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: North Korea
Posts: 5,015
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBLEAF View Post
Mac wont be back next year
If the price is right he has had very productive stretches for the club. Cap willing I definitely see him back, esp given the injury woes of Lupul.

nuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 12:08 PM
  #168
Interactif
Realism ** Optimism
 
Interactif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,584
vCash: 500
I would take Bozak over Weiss, if Weiss is getting 5M per, then Bozak is worth 5.5M, but if we buy out Grabo, maybe Bozak takes a hometown discount and stays for 4.77 for 5.

The Bozak under RC and this year is better than Weiss, and he is younger too.

Interactif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 12:50 PM
  #169
Mystifo
Lol Doodle.
 
Mystifo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: YYT
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 2,820
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I would take Bozak over Weiss, if Weiss is getting 5M per, then Bozak is worth 5.5M, but if we buy out Grabo, maybe Bozak takes a hometown discount and stays for 4.77 for 5.

The Bozak under RC and this year is better than Weiss, and he is younger too.

Player has bad year. MUST BUY HIM OUT NOW!!!!!



I am guessing you were apart of the Washington should buy out Ovi train too because with a post like that only what you are doing this year matters. I mean those 3/4 years before don't mean anything....

Mystifo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 12:56 PM
  #170
Petes2424
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Bozak isn't a 1st line center either. If he wants 5M, he can go and get that somewhere else.

I think 3.5-4M is perfect. We need to stop overpaying 2nd rate talent. I don't like Weiss much either, but at 5M I'd rather have him than Bozak.

Also..Weiss is not fragile, it's been a long time since he was last injured and out for a long time. He has played over 70+ games every year since 06-07.
I think we should stop using the $5 million figure to distinguish 1st liners.

Petes2424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 12:58 PM
  #171
Interactif
Realism ** Optimism
 
Interactif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Player has bad year. MUST BUY HIM OUT NOW!!!!!



I am guessing you were apart of the Washington should buy out Ovi train too because with a post like that only what you are doing this year matters. I mean those 3/4 years before don't mean anything....
That's up to Nonis and team, at times you have to realize there are going to be Komisarek's also, you have to make decisions, was Grabo more of a Ron Wilson creation or is this the real Grabo.

One thing is for sure, we can't afford to keep a #3C that is being out produced by a 1.5 M Center/winger in Jay Mcclement.

Grabo is not the #2C on this team anymore, Kadri is, and with Kadri as our #2C we are heading the playoffs.

Again always said as long as we have Grabo as our #2C we aren't going anywhere as he was never a #2C on a contender or playoff bound team. Proof is what we are seeing this year. Mcclement has been a far more valuable contributer that Grabo also, really we don't need him. He had absolutely nothing to do with our success this year.

Interactif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 01:05 PM
  #172
ErnieLeafs
LOVE & LIVE the Game
 
ErnieLeafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,128
vCash: 500
We aren't in any kind of cap trouble, at all. The people who freak out about the money spent by a billionaire corporation are funny.

Tinfoil hats are at a premium, the capocalypse is nigh.

In reality, I just don't want to inflate salaries league-wide, by paying a 3rd line faceoff specialist like he's a first liner. I would be upset if the FO didn't spend the resources available.

ErnieLeafs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 01:09 PM
  #173
Melrose's Mullet
Registered User
 
Melrose's Mullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 39
vCash: 500
Apologies if this has been brought up before.

How willing would you guys be to pull the trigger on a trade that brings Matt Duchene to Toronto? Who would you be willing to give up (if you're willing to make a trade for him in the first place) to get him? What makes sense? I personally think he'd fit this team like a glove.

Melrose's Mullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 01:13 PM
  #174
ErnieLeafs
LOVE & LIVE the Game
 
ErnieLeafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose's Mullet View Post
Apologies if this has been brought up before.

How willing would you guys be to pull the trigger on a trade that brings Matt Duchene to Toronto? Who would you be willing to give up (if you're willing to make a trade for him in the first place) to get him? What makes sense? I personally think he'd fit this team like a glove.
Trade proposal/speculation thread?

Either way, Bozak + Finn/Percy + 2nd.

Colorado says no, and I'm fine with that.

ErnieLeafs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 01:14 PM
  #175
Petes2424
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose's Mullet View Post
Apologies if this has been brought up before.

How willing would you guys be to pull the trigger on a trade that brings Matt Duchene to Toronto? Who would you be willing to give up (if you're willing to make a trade for him in the first place) to get him? What makes sense? I personally think he'd fit this team like a glove.
He'd fit any team like a glove. It would cost most of everything the Leafs dont want to part with.

Petes2424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:37 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.