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Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part VI

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04-14-2013, 03:09 AM
  #951
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Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
Given that Sacramento has problems matching the old bid, and Hansen has upped his bid by another $25 million, I don't see Sacramento keeping the Kings. At best they get a promise of an expansion/relocation somewhere down the road, contingent on a new arena.

What worries me is Hansen's apparent unwillingness to own an NHL team. This is eerily reminiscent of ASG in Atlanta. Hansen would have to weigh the ONE TIME $80 million in contingent funds (for getting an NHL team) versus THE ONGOING REVENUE STREAMS he'd have to forgo to an NHL team. Unlike the case in Dallas, the cost of the arena is not split 50/50 with the owner of the hockey team. He would lose the ticket/suite/parking/concession/etc revenue for 45 dates a year. A hockey team simply is not feasable without it.

If instead he booked 20 or 30 rock concerts/WWE/MMA/tractor pulls, he would get to keep that revenue. Another factor to consider is that the NHL team would be competing with NBA team for sports fan dollars and sport sponsorship dollars. On the other hand, "them Idol shows that kids like" appeal to a totally different demographic. They would be additional revenue streams, instead of cannibalizing the NBA revenue streams. Hansen could legitimately make the rents high enough that an NHL team would not be viable. Look at Paul Allen in Portland, Les alexander in Houston, and ASG in Atlanta. For a hard-headed businessman that already owns an NBA team, adding an NHL team is questionable at best.
Luckily for me, you aren't making the decision.

It'll be nice when this is resolved.

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04-14-2013, 03:20 AM
  #952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
Given that Sacramento has problems matching the old bid, and Hansen has upped his bid by another $25 million, I don't see Sacramento keeping the Kings. At best they get a promise of an expansion/relocation somewhere down the road, contingent on a new arena.

What worries me is Hansen's apparent unwillingness to own an NHL team. This is eerily reminiscent of ASG in Atlanta. Hansen would have to weigh the ONE TIME $80 million in contingent funds (for getting an NHL team) versus THE ONGOING REVENUE STREAMS he'd have to forgo to an NHL team. Unlike the case in Dallas, the cost of the arena is not split 50/50 with the owner of the hockey team. He would lose the ticket/suite/parking/concession/etc revenue for 45 dates a year. A hockey team simply is not feasable without it.

If instead he booked 20 or 30 rock concerts/WWE/MMA/tractor pulls, he would get to keep that revenue. Another factor to consider is that the NHL team would be competing with NBA team for sports fan dollars and sport sponsorship dollars. On the other hand, "them Idol shows that kids like" appeal to a totally different demographic. They would be additional revenue streams, instead of cannibalizing the NBA revenue streams. Hansen could legitimately make the rents high enough that an NHL team would not be viable. Look at Paul Allen in Portland, Les alexander in Houston, and ASG in Atlanta. For a hard-headed businessman that already owns an NBA team, adding an NHL team is questionable at best.
All of that, plus the already questionable Seattle market for the NHL, makes it pretty clear that moving the Coyotes there would be a disaster. I don't understand why the Seattle rumour won't die. It makes no sense for the NHL at this point in time. There won't be an arena for years, the NHL will be stuck paying rent in somebody else's building and be shut out of huge revenue streams, and there is no proven market for NHL hockey at NHL prices.

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04-14-2013, 07:30 AM
  #953
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Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal View Post
All of that, plus the already questionable Seattle market for the NHL, makes it pretty clear that moving the Coyotes there would be a disaster. I don't understand why the Seattle rumour won't die. It makes no sense for the NHL at this point in time. There won't be an arena for years, the NHL will be stuck paying rent in somebody else's building and be shut out of huge revenue streams, and there is no proven market for NHL hockey at NHL prices.
i agree. an nhl team in seattle is an afterthought at best. yet the chatter has certainly raised hopes, thats for sure.

can anyone point to a feasibility study, or even anything that references it? hockey, not basketball.

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04-14-2013, 08:06 AM
  #954
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Hansen built into the MOU with Seattle/King County the NHL provisions with the intention of being in a 'minority' position with any potential NHL team ownership group. I am sure he has done his own feasibility study to have included the NHL in the deal. He has already agreed to update Key arena for both NBA and NHL. He himself has created the buzz about the NHL by doing these things. Ideally it may be better for Seattle to get an expansion team for the new arena but I think if need be the Yotes would be acceptable in an 'only option' situation.


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04-14-2013, 09:07 AM
  #955
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Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
He would lose the ticket/suite/parking/concession/etc revenue for 45 dates a year. A hockey team simply is not feasable without it.
Well, that's not entirely true. Having another team increases the value of the naming rights, for example. It also allows both teams to negotiate a far better deal on contracts like those with concessions services. That he 'doesn't get the revenue' implies that somehow the arena is churning out equivalent revenue for those 45 days, which isn't feasible without another major tenant. Keeping an arena packed year round is actually the most cost effective way to run it, even if you aren't getting a lot of revenue from those extra bookings. It's just another way to spread out costs. The city is also a stakeholder here, and they'd be more than happy to have those extra dates filled with another pro team.

Add in the $80m kicker and it's a slam dunk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
If instead he booked 20 or 30 rock concerts/WWE/MMA/tractor pulls...
What's to stop him from doing so? There's still plenty of room on the calendar after two professional teams.

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04-14-2013, 10:30 AM
  #956
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Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal View Post
All of that, plus the already questionable Seattle market for the NHL, makes it pretty clear that moving the Coyotes there would be a disaster. I don't understand why the Seattle rumour won't die. It makes no sense for the NHL at this point in time. There won't be an arena for years, the NHL will be stuck paying rent in somebody else's building and be shut out of huge revenue streams, and there is no proven market for NHL hockey at NHL prices.
Because the powers that be don't think it would be a disaster.

Why is the market questionable?

Won't be an arena for years: expected to be completed for 2015 season, what?

Hansen is planning to be involved with the NHL franchise. More dates means more leverage so that means More revenue from corporate sponsors and TV revenue.

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04-14-2013, 10:32 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
i agree. an nhl team in seattle is an afterthought at best. yet the chatter has certainly raised hopes, thats for sure.

can anyone point to a feasibility study, or even anything that references it? hockey, not basketball.
I'll Hansen's word that the NHL is not an afterthought.

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04-14-2013, 10:41 AM
  #958
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Originally Posted by superdeluxe View Post
I'll Hansen's word that the NHL is not an afterthought.
His actions suggest it is though... His he the one buying the future NHL team?

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04-14-2013, 10:43 AM
  #959
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I wonder what will happen if the NBA promises an expansion team instead. They would still build the arena, but would they update Key for modern use or would that force Seattle to wait for an expansion NHL team too.

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04-14-2013, 10:44 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
Given that Sacramento has problems matching the old bid, and Hansen has upped his bid by another $25 million, I don't see Sacramento keeping the Kings. At best they get a promise of an expansion/relocation somewhere down the road, contingent on a new arena.

What worries me is Hansen's apparent unwillingness to own an NHL team. This is eerily reminiscent of ASG in Atlanta. Hansen would have to weigh the ONE TIME $80 million in contingent funds (for getting an NHL team) versus THE ONGOING REVENUE STREAMS he'd have to forgo to an NHL team. Unlike the case in Dallas, the cost of the arena is not split 50/50 with the owner of the hockey team. He would lose the ticket/suite/parking/concession/etc revenue for 45 dates a year. A hockey team simply is not feasable without it.

If instead he booked 20 or 30 rock concerts/WWE/MMA/tractor pulls, he would get to keep that revenue. Another factor to consider is that the NHL team would be competing with NBA team for sports fan dollars and sport sponsorship dollars. On the other hand, "them Idol shows that kids like" appeal to a totally different demographic. They would be additional revenue streams, instead of cannibalizing the NBA revenue streams. Hansen could legitimately make the rents high enough that an NHL team would not be viable. Look at Paul Allen in Portland, Les alexander in Houston, and ASG in Atlanta. For a hard-headed businessman that already owns an NBA team, adding an NHL team is questionable at best.
1). Hansen had stated he didn't want to be a majority owner, but talked about having minority stake.

2. Hansen has talked about needing 2 anchor tenants in the building

3. Third Hansen has talked about RSN it is well known the more content you can deliver, the more dollars you can leverage. Same with corporate dollars. If he can offer 80 dates a year of professional sports (to go along with ufc, concerts) he can leverage higher rates.

4. Our economy is one of the top 5 in the country and will continue to growm , see below from SI report:

The economies of the two competing cities was another big part of Seattle's presentation to NBA owners. The online retailer Amazon is building a 3.3 million square-foot campus in Seattle that will serve as one of the country's largest corporate headquarters in a city location. As many as 17,000 young college-educated workers are expected to be hired by Amazon in Seattle, which could increase Seattle's annual GDP by more than 15 percent.
Hansen's group told NBA owners that Seattle has 13 companies rated in the Fortune 1000; Sacramento has none. The Seattle economy has been ranked among the top five in the U.S. for the last four years, according to the independent research firm POLICOM, while Sacramento has dropped from No. 19 in 2011 to No. 55 this year. The Seattle group told owners that Sacramento's fall has been structural rather than cyclical, based on Sacramento's emphasis on residential home construction leading up to the recent housing crisis. When the housing bubble burst, the Sacramento economy was hit hard. Seattle's 32,555 season-ticket requests at the time of the meeting last week was more than three times the number of pledges of Sacramento.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba...#ixzz2QS8uK7NL

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04-14-2013, 10:44 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
I wonder what will happen if the NBA promises an expansion team instead. They would still build the arena, but would they update Key for modern use or would that force Seattle to wait for an expansion NHL team too.
I think the NHL would wait for expansion since there are other readyer options for a transfert of the Coyotes.

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04-14-2013, 10:48 AM
  #962
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hi everyone! Long time reader first time poster!

indeed!

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04-14-2013, 10:54 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
His actions suggest it is though... His he the one buying the future NHL team?
No, but just because he doesn't want to be the primary owner of the franchise, doesn't mean it is an afterthought, he understands how important the NHL in Seattle would be.

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04-14-2013, 10:57 AM
  #964
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
His actions suggest it is though... His he the one buying the future NHL team?
I think you are confusing what you want deep down with what his actions actually suggest. Now - if the NHL was an afterthought would he:

- Talk about bringing Key Arena up to NHL standards?
- Build an $80MM carrot into the deal with the city/county if his group can acquire an NHL team for the new building?
- Send out specific messages via his site thanking NHL fans for support?

I get that QC wants to downplay Seattle since it takes away what they perceive as main competition for a team but try to show at least some objectivity and understanding of what is going on.

And the "well, where is the owner"? Line needs to die. Its been reported Hansen has a group he has been working with (Levin specifically mentioned it) and just because the group isn't screaming from the rooftops their interest doesn't mean its there. Which way does the NHL prefer, anyway? Did anyone know who Hansen was before he went public ... and how much groundwork had already been done when it did go public? ... over 6 months,

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04-14-2013, 11:02 AM
  #965
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I wonder what will happen if the NBA promises an expansion team instead. They would still build the arena, but would they update Key for modern use or would that force Seattle to wait for an expansion NHL team too.
I think that would be the best situation for hockey, yotes would get 2 years all by itself until the expansion nba team comes and then both move into the Turbine in 2015

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04-14-2013, 11:04 AM
  #966
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And yes I'm calling the new arena, the turbine

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04-14-2013, 11:20 AM
  #967
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Look at the arena concept for the hockey configuration. He's clearing had it designed to where there would be great sight-lines for hockey. I mean pocket suites 10 rows up.

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04-14-2013, 11:36 AM
  #968
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Look at the arena concept for the hockey configuration. He's clearing had it designed to where there would be great sight-lines for hockey. I mean pocket suites 10 rows up.
I think for the hockey it closer isn't it?

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04-14-2013, 11:56 AM
  #969
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Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal View Post
All of that, plus the already questionable Seattle market for the NHL, makes it pretty clear that moving the Coyotes there would be a disaster. I don't understand why the Seattle rumour won't die. It makes no sense for the NHL at this point in time. There won't be an arena for years, the NHL will be stuck paying rent in somebody else's building and be shut out of huge revenue streams, and there is no proven market for NHL hockey at NHL prices.
Wow...you actually believe all of that, don't you?

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04-14-2013, 12:15 PM
  #970
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Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal View Post
All of that, plus the already questionable Seattle market for the NHL, makes it pretty clear that moving the Coyotes there would be a disaster. I don't understand why the Seattle rumour won't die. It makes no sense for the NHL at this point in time.
- It isn't a rumor, which is why it will not die (official PR site of group: http://www.sonicsarena.com/)

- Seattle is a slam dunk sure fire NHL market

- The Coyotes moving there will be a huge success

-the NHL greatly needs a team in the Seattle market. Ignoring the NW for so long has been bad business for the league which has helped keep it well behind other sports leagues in popularity.

The sooner the NHL is in Seattle, the better it is for the sport of hockey.

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04-14-2013, 12:17 PM
  #971
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
His actions suggest it is though... His he the one buying the future NHL team?
His words and actions hint that his group will probably buy a team.

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04-14-2013, 12:31 PM
  #972
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No kidding

This attempt to discredit Seattle now as a market around here is grasping at straws. Seattle is not Phoenix or Atlanta or any other failed market. There is one reason, and only one reason the NHL isn't here ... an arena, and that is about to be solved.

How can anyone say Seattle is a weak market for hockey when the Pacific NW makes of 5 of the 8 teams in the Western Conference of the WHL, 4 of those teams are in Washington State and 2 of them in the Seattle metro area.

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04-14-2013, 12:48 PM
  #973
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I think for the hockey it closer isn't it?
probably right with that.

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04-14-2013, 01:01 PM
  #974
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There is one reason, and only one reason the NHL isn't here ... an arena, and that is about to be solved.
And the owner?

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04-14-2013, 01:04 PM
  #975
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And the owner?
Levin would be a possiblity. Or hansen already found someone that wants to be the owner of the NHL team. I think focus would turn towards hockey as soon as (hopefully) the NBA approves sale and relocation of the NBA kings to seattle.

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