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Offseason Amnesty buyout for Umberger?

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Old
04-04-2013, 09:22 PM
  #26
Fred Glover
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I dont see Umby getting bought out, in fact I don's see anyone getting bought out. If anyone does, I would say it would be Wiz, given our depth on the blue line and his injury history the past two seasons

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04-04-2013, 09:45 PM
  #27
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RJ played well tonite. Seems to take him about 2 months to get going. He might try to report next October in shape.

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04-04-2013, 11:42 PM
  #28
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Just depends upon what the front office has in their plans.

If they are committed to being at the cap going forward, then I'd say yes. If not, then no.

Umgarbage is not tradeable-even if the Jackets retain 50% of his salary. The 4 full remaining years on his contract makes the Jackets stuck like chuck.

One can only hope that he plays over his head early next season and Jarmo can dupe some naive GM into an early season trade.

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04-05-2013, 01:55 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Just depends upon what the front office has in their plans.

If they are committed to being at the cap going forward, then I'd say yes. If not, then no.

Umgarbage is not tradeable-even if the Jackets retain 50% of his salary. The 4 full remaining years on his contract makes the Jackets stuck like chuck.

One can only hope that he plays over his head early next season and Jarmo can dupe some naive GM into an early season trade.
Taking aside his abysmal start, Umberger has 15 points in his last 26 games, for a .57 points per game average. This is well within his normal second line scoring range. Even including his start, his ppg is within the top 180 forwards in the league. And when you consider all the other strong parts of his game (he was very good tonight, if you didn't notice), such as defence, penalty killing, winning board-battles and shot-blocking, it's hard to imagine that no GM would take him for half his salary($2.3 M).

I won't say anymore about just how bad an idea I think a buyout is.

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04-05-2013, 05:35 AM
  #30
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Saw an interesting point in one of the Dispatch articles regarding the possibility of buying out Bryzgalov.

" If he is bought out, Philadelphia would be relieved of his salary-cap hit and he would become a free agent, but it wouldn’t be cheap: The buyout formula calls for two-thirds of the remaining money divided by double the term, meaning Bryzgalov would get $23 million divided by 14 years or $1.64 million per season until 2027."

So while I'm not advocating a buyout for anyone it does make them a bit more tolerable from a cash flow perspective if the above is correct.

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04-05-2013, 09:05 AM
  #31
Cyclones Rock
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Saw an interesting point in one of the Dispatch articles regarding the possibility of buying out Bryzgalov.

" If he is bought out, Philadelphia would be relieved of his salary-cap hit and he would become a free agent, but it wouldn’t be cheap: The buyout formula calls for two-thirds of the remaining money divided by double the term, meaning Bryzgalov would get $23 million divided by 14 years or $1.64 million per season until 2027."

So while I'm not advocating a buyout for anyone it does make them a bit more tolerable from a cash flow perspective if the above is correct.
Capgeek.com is a great source for this type of info. Here's the standard buyout info for Bryzgalov and Umberger:

http://capgeek.com/buyout-calculator...06&buyout_d=15

http://capgeek.com/buyout-calculator...06&buyout_d=15

Keep in mind that the "amnesty buyouts" completely eliminate any cap impact in the future. While I don't know how the amnesty payouts are structured (lump sum or over a period of years/full amount or standard 2/3 of contract value), once that option is exercised, then the "bought out" player ceases to exist in terms of salary cap implications.

Jarmo's clearance of the "Columbus Country Clubbers" on deadline day leaves exactly one player left from the "leadership" of that era. That one, of course, is RJU.

Jk and JD have effectively rid the franchise of all of that element. The question might come down to whether the significant cost of a buyout is worth getting rid of the last piece of that dismal group. RJU, one would think, is on borrowed time in Columbus. Had he been tradeable, he would have likely been gone by deadline day.

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04-05-2013, 09:46 AM
  #32
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By the time we'd removed most of MacLean's guys, it'd been a few years and folks were annoyed with Howson for having "hesitated" to remove them.

Now there is a similar impulse to remove all of Howson's guys. They won't be moved anywhere near the timeframe folks demand, and as a result those same folks will eventually turn on Kekalainen. Because how dare he not completely exorcise anything that even distantly reminds people of times that were Ineffably Tainted With Horrible Failure.

This is the same mentality that insisted we absolutely without fail had to get rid of Machinehead in game presentations because it "encouraged a losing culture." And of course nobody's really liked our game presentation music since...

Some people apparently just aren't happy without the ability to target somebody and say "his existence and everything he touched is why we're not the greatest in the world".

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Old
04-13-2013, 05:12 PM
  #33
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No points in his last 6 games.

One goal (other than an empty netter) in his last 15 games.

A two season swoon which is almost positively not an aberration.

Amnesty buyout price would be 2/3 of contract= 2/3*$4.5m*4 years= $12 million. No salary cap ramifications.

IF he could be traded in the off season and the CBJs are saddled with 50% of the cost, he would cost $9 million over the 4 remaining years of his deal. Salary cap ramification would be $2.25m/year for 4 years.

Between amnesty buyout and a trade where the CBJs pay 50% of his salary, it would seem the buyout would be best as the cost is just $750,000/year more ($3m total for the 4 years) and the contract would be completely off the books.

Realistically, he can't be traded for anything but a problem player coming the CBJs way. I'm going to say that Umberger's play over the last two seasons and the new management's eagerness to rid the team of its former leadership (Brassard, Dorsette, Mason) are making an amnesty buyout a 50/50 chance this off season.

One can only hope.


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 04-13-2013 at 05:20 PM.
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04-13-2013, 05:47 PM
  #34
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Well he definitely is one of the worst forwards on the roster. I'd put him probably just above Mackenzie and Boll; I'd probably put Umberger at the 10th best forward. That's sad really, I tried to be objective when looking at our forwards compared to Umberger and I legitimately think he is our 10th ranked forward.

Gaborik
Anisimov

Dubinsky
Johansen
Foligno
Letestu
Calvert
Atkinson
Prospal


Umberger
Mackenzie

Boll


Last edited by Doug19: 04-13-2013 at 05:53 PM.
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Old
04-13-2013, 09:00 PM
  #35
IBleedUnionBlue
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Well he definitely is one of the worst forwards on the roster. ... I'd probably put Umberger at the 10th best forward.
Agree with this assessment.

And I hate to see this roster spot occupied by his $4.6 mill salary all the way through 2017.

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04-13-2013, 10:40 PM
  #36
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We should buy him out because we need space for players with offensive talent. Right now RJ is a $4.5 million dollar 4th line grinder. Somebody has to go to make room for additional forwards. I think we could get a 99.9% vote on RJ walking the plank (only Vizqi and Mayor Bee would vote to keep him as a tribute to Howson).

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04-13-2013, 10:43 PM
  #37
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He isn't even a grinder really, his board play is usually awful. He's pretty much a third liner than does everything average to just below average.

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04-13-2013, 11:17 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDM View Post
We should buy him out because we need space for players with offensive talent. Right now RJ is a $4.5 million dollar 4th line grinder. Somebody has to go to make room for additional forwards. I think we could get a 99.9% vote on RJ walking the plank (only Vizqi and Mayor Bee would vote to keep him as a tribute to Howson).
I'm not even sure he's a grinder.... I will say for the 3rd or 4th time he has been better than the beginning of the season but he still seems to be a statue more nights than not...

I rarely see him even pissed off any more... In the end his value to the team (not necessarily his cost) must be judged by JD/JK. As you say, the spot he is taking could make a difference in overall offensive results..

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04-14-2013, 02:28 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by EDM View Post
We should buy him out because we need space for players with offensive talent. Right now RJ is a $4.5 million dollar 4th line grinder. Somebody has to go to make room for additional forwards. I think we could get a 99.9% vote on RJ walking the plank (only Vizqi and Mayor Bee would vote to keep him as a tribute to Howson).
I'd keep him or do a retained salary trade.

The only way I'd buy him out is if ownership made it clear they are willing to spend $67 million plus on payroll for next year.

And no, RJ is still far more productive than a typical 4th liner, even if you pro-rate his production to 4th line ice-time.

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Old
04-14-2013, 07:13 AM
  #40
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RJ needs to get back to doing what he does best. Get his ass in front of the net, set screens, then score the greasy rebound goals. He does that on occasion but not nearly enough. Play hard, fore-check hard, back-check hard, then park himself in front and create mayhem.

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04-14-2013, 07:34 AM
  #41
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Get Philadelphia on the phone before the draft.

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04-14-2013, 07:35 AM
  #42
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RJ needs to get back to doing what he does best. Get his ass in front of the net, set screens, then score the greasy rebound goals. He does that on occasion but not nearly enough. Play hard, fore-check hard, back-check hard, then park himself in front and create mayhem.
It kinda seems a bit like Nick Foligno stole his role.

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04-14-2013, 08:57 AM
  #43
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He isn't even a grinder really, his board play is usually awful. He's pretty much a third liner than does everything average to just below average.
Yeah lol....no kidding. I see the same thing.

His salary doesn't resemble a third liner though. Might be the worst contract in the NHL per value. Insert cmon man! comment directed towards GMSH.

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04-14-2013, 09:00 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
It kinda seems a bit like Nick Foligno stole his role.
In terms of visibility, yes. Foligno has more flashy-looking plays with the puck than Umberger, although he has similarly few results with same (Foligno and Umberger are even in points - Foligno with two more assists and Umberger with two more goals).

We just happen to have several crash-and-bang decent-sized forwards with big contracts and flashes of point-producing ability - Umberger, Dubinsky, Foligno. Comeau's similar but doesn't have as large of a contract and has less recent scoring history.

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04-14-2013, 09:17 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Might be the worst contract in the NHL per value.
One might argue that the contract alluded to by your nickname is more egregious.

Meanwhile, Shawn Horcoff is still indisputably more disproportionately paid. Johan Franzen's contract term is going to badly hurt Detroit. Paul Gaustad's value-for-money-and-term is pretty egregious. Mikhail Grabovski's had moderately better seasons, but he also has a significantly bigger contract. David Jones makes the Umby contract look really good; Ville Leino makes it look bloody fantastic. David Booth is similarly problematic by comparison. Drew Stafford is more or less comparable. Kris Versteeg's contract is also up there. The Brad Richards contract is looking downright horrifying of late. Danny Briere still isn't worth what he's paid. Then there's the well-known classics like Bryzgalov, Cammalleri, Heatley, Luongo, Bouwmeester, Campbell, Kaberle, Lecavalier...

Funny how a lot of forwards of comparable ability seem to get the same sorts of "ugly" contracts, though, isn't it? Almost as though that's the market value.

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04-14-2013, 09:34 AM
  #46
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One might argue that the contract alluded to by your nickname is more egregious.

Meanwhile, Shawn Horcoff is still indisputably more disproportionately paid. Johan Franzen's contract term is going to badly hurt Detroit. Paul Gaustad's value-for-money-and-term is pretty egregious. Mikhail Grabovski's had moderately better seasons, but he also has a significantly bigger contract. David Jones makes the Umby contract look really good; Ville Leino makes it look bloody fantastic. David Booth is similarly problematic by comparison. Drew Stafford is more or less comparable. Kris Versteeg's contract is also up there. The Brad Richards contract is looking downright horrifying of late. Danny Briere still isn't worth what he's paid. Then there's the well-known classics like Bryzgalov, Cammalleri, Heatley, Luongo, Bouwmeester, Campbell, Kaberle, Lecavalier...

Funny how a lot of forwards of comparable ability seem to get the same sorts of "ugly" contracts, though, isn't it? Almost as though that's the market value.


Nash is 3 times the player Umberger is so (17 goals to 7) most of them clutch third period game winners, not to mention he opens up the ice for others just due to his presence. So I don't feel his 7.6MM cap hit is worse than a 3rd/4th line plodder who is a couple years older making 4.5MM. Dubinsky is in that range but A) he's much younger, b) more well rounded player (pk, versatility etc). Yes I know he only has 1 goal.


I'm not going to argue your other points (other teams overpaid forwards) because your're probably right Now I will take my ball and go home


I guess I just don't like Umberger as a player. That's all. And that whole volunteer coaching thing at OSU during the lockout was dumb. He should have been playing somewhere like everyone else.

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Old
04-14-2013, 09:40 AM
  #47
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Get Philadelphia on the phone before the draft.
Forget that, get the Rangers on the phone. As for my answer to OP's original question...Yes, please, thank you. I think that RJ is robbing this organization blind. His play was far better prior to his extension. That could be said for scores of other NHLers, but it doesn't make any more forgiveable. I think that RJ is not the leader that people seem to think he is. It's become obvious that other players have taken over his role both on and off the ice. I'm not sure he has a place here anymore. We'll see what happens.

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04-14-2013, 12:16 PM
  #48
Cyclones Rock
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I'd keep him or do a retained salary trade.

The only way I'd buy him out is if ownership made it clear they are willing to spend $67 million plus on payroll for next year.

And no, RJ is still far more productive than a typical 4th liner, even if you pro-rate his production to 4th line ice-time.

Not correct, sir.

Umberger has an average of 14:41 minutes of Even Strength Ice Time per game (42 games) and has 11 even strength points.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...69&view=splits

This equates to 1.08 points per 60 minutes of ESIT.

Derek MacKenzie has an average of 8:54 minutes of ESIT/game (37 games) and has generated 7 points in this time.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...01&view=splits

This equates to 1.28 points per 60 minutes of ESIT. MacKenzie is your typical CBJ 4rth liner.

RJU is producing even strength points at rate of 16% less than Derek MacKenzie


Last edited by Cyclones Rock: 04-14-2013 at 12:31 PM.
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Old
04-14-2013, 12:53 PM
  #49
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Not correct, sir.

Umberger has an average of 14:41 minutes of Even Strength Ice Time per game (42 games) and has 11 even strength points.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...69&view=splits

This equates to 1.08 points per 60 minutes of ESIT.

Derek MacKenzie has an average of 8:54 minutes of ESIT/game (37 games) and has generated 7 points in this time.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...01&view=splits

This equates to 1.28 points per 60 minutes of ESIT. MacKenzie is your typical CBJ 4rth liner.

RJU is producing even strength points at rate of 16% less than Derek MacKenzie
Thanks for crunching the numbers. I wasn't subtracting power play points. I was also referring to "typical 4th liner" scoring leaguewide, not sure if RJ is worse than that. I guess I stand somewhat corrected, although D-Mac has long been impressive when it comes to his points per TOI.

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Old
04-14-2013, 01:49 PM
  #50
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Thanks for crunching the numbers. I wasn't subtracting power play points. I was also referring to "typical 4th liner" scoring leaguewide, not sure if RJ is worse than that. I guess I stand somewhat corrected, although D-Mac has long been impressive when it comes to his points per TOI.
In all fairness, he probably isn't. Also, your claim just piqued my interest, so I crunched the numbers for the heck of it. It's an interesting stat to me and I think it puts player point production into a good context.

There is a site (which I can't recall) which breaks down scoring per 60 minutes of play. Gotta find it for future reference.

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