HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The 2014-2015 Goalie Situation

View Poll Results: #yoloswagyolo
Keep Miller/Enroth 14 20.29%
Trade Miller, Start Enroth/backup 12 17.39%
TM, Vet/Enroth 1A/1B 11 15.94%
TM, Acquire high end prospect/young NHLer 32 46.38%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-22-2013, 09:10 PM
  #51
Myllz
ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF
 
Myllz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 14,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luceni View Post
I want a Enroth/Schneider tandem.

Miller, Ennis, Leopold

for

Schneider, Kesler, Hamhius
Why would Vancouver want Miller when they have Luongo? Not to mention Vancouver gets massively fleeced in that deal.

Myllz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 09:24 PM
  #52
New Sabres Captain
ForFriendshipDikembe
 
New Sabres Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 40,153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
None of the above.

I'm still not sold on Enroth at all.

Let him walk or trade him.


Keep Miller and trade for a young goalie to sit behind him for one more year.
Same here, though Enroth has improved his value somewhat. Still, his weaknesses haven't gone away...he is what he is.

The problem is the goaltender market is pretty weak in general unless you're an established starter--the most I could see Enroth getting is a 5th or a 6th. And at that cost, is it really worth it? Not given that the pick will even make the NHL, plus our goaltending prospects are a few years away...if I thought we could get a decent backup in FA then sure, I guess a pick is better than nothing...but really in the grand scheme of things it likely doesn't make a difference whether he is kept or traded.

New Sabres Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 09:35 PM
  #53
TheWook
Registered User
 
TheWook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Buffalo
Country: United States
Posts: 225
vCash: 500
I wouldnt be sad to see Miller go at all. Hes had a good run here but I think its time to move on. Voted the last option.

TheWook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 09:36 PM
  #54
1972
"Craigs on it"
 
1972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,179
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luceni View Post
I want a Enroth/Schneider tandem.

Miller, Ennis, Leopold

for

Schneider, Kesler, Hamhius
Congrats, worst proposal Ive seen on HFBOARDS in my tenure

1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 10:08 PM
  #55
jBuds
pretty damn valuable
 
jBuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC Suburbs
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 27,901
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
Congrats, worst proposal Ive seen on HFBOARDS in my tenure
Nah c'mon. It's bad but not the worst the boards have ever seen. Actually, not even Luceni's personal worst. That title goes to "Pommer for panthers first rounder this year and a prospect"

jBuds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 10:54 PM
  #56
HiddenInLight
Registered User
 
HiddenInLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,489
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Nah c'mon. It's bad but not the worst the boards have ever seen. Actually, not even Luceni's personal worst. That title goes to "Pommer for panthers first rounder this year and a prospect"
Not Myers for Statsny straight up? Or the Colorado fans saying Statsny is worth more then Myers?


Last edited by HiddenInLight: 03-22-2013 at 11:02 PM.
HiddenInLight is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 11:57 PM
  #57
dire wolf
be cool
 
dire wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cali
Country: United States
Posts: 4,541
vCash: 500
I voted for the last option, but really I don't know. I'm actually in favor of keeping Miller if either (a) management thinks they can re-sign him for a few more years, or (b) we can't get much for him on the trade market. Given that Schneider, Bernier, Luongo haven't moved, I'm not sure what the market is for trading goalies unless a team has an injury at the deadline.

dire wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-23-2013, 12:45 AM
  #58
couture23
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
 
couture23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: GTA/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,056
vCash: 500
I don't like change, keep Miller.

couture23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-23-2013, 01:07 AM
  #59
VaporTrail
Registered Tanker
 
VaporTrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Buffalo
Country: Ireland
Posts: 2,763
vCash: 500
Get rid of the rest of the Rochester Core....Maybe keep Vanek....Ship the rest of them out though....time for change....

VaporTrail is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-23-2013, 12:03 PM
  #60
Mit Yarrum
HoF Turd Shiner
 
Mit Yarrum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 5,063
vCash: 1663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
Enroth isn't dead
Nope. Personally I'd like to see him get a few consecutive starts to evaluate how he holds up. Conditioning is apparently an issue.

Mit Yarrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-23-2013, 02:04 PM
  #61
Boose30
Registered User
 
Boose30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: The Colony
Country: United States
Posts: 283
vCash: 500
trade enroth now, trade miller in the offseason

enroth wont develop anymore than he has and miller needs to go before he loses what value he still has

Boose30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-23-2013, 02:32 PM
  #62
Sabresfansince1980
Registered User
 
Sabresfansince1980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: from Wheatfield, NY
Country: Germany
Posts: 3,545
vCash: 500
If Miller wants to stay Regier needs to sign him to an extension in the summer for 4-5 years at roughly the same cap hit. There is no proven prospect, and even if Makarov turns out, he can't be relied upon to take over as the workhorse until maybe three years from now. There are no upcoming UFAs that will be an upgrade or young enough to be more than a stop-gap, and the cap hit won't be much lower than what Miller will make. If Makarov (or anyone else) proves themselves or becomes available in trade, then move Miller if it's best. That move doesn't have to happen quite yet so there's no urgency in trading Miller in the next year or so. If all the other mess gets cleaned up, Miller is no doubt the kind of goalie we want for a legit playoff run. Does nobody remember how good he was in just his last playoff series?

If Miller does want out though, it's an easy decision but a hard trade scenario. Another top quality goalie prospect HAS to be part of the deal, and I don't see much available in the near future. Bernier is currently outplaying Quick (since Quick is most likely still toked up since the raising the Cup). LA won't trade Miller for Quick if they decide Bernier is their guy. Chicago is playing a good enough brand of hockey that they might not see the need to pick up Miller's cap hit. OTOH, they might see Miller as a guy that can clinch their hopes, but Crawford is nowhere near a good enough replacement. He's simply riding the wave of his team's quality play (it takes a top game to make Emery look good). Replacing Miller will be paramount and it might have to be done is separate deals. In that case the possibilities are numerous.

One way or another, keeping Miller or finding a damn good replacement is a necessity. Anything less will look much like Enroth's record for the past 20+ starts.

Sabresfansince1980 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 12:03 PM
  #63
Mit Yarrum
HoF Turd Shiner
 
Mit Yarrum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 5,063
vCash: 1663
So, a few updates here.

First, we've added Hackett who looks like he might be able to push for a backup spot next year, but of course we still have Miller/Enroth at the NHL level. So I'm guessing he's in Roch to start the year. If we move one of those 2, depending on return he might get his shot, but he's now directly in the mix for 2014-2015.

Also, Enroth is really starting to turn it around. He's 3-2-2 this year, with 1 shutout.

Interesting that despite his poor record last year, his save% is the same this year as it was last year: .918. Which is a marked improvement on the year before that, at .907, despite have a excellent win-loss record that year.

He's now 20-16-7, .914, 2.72GAA on his career. Not too shabby. Some awful defensive teams in front of him as well.

Mit Yarrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 12:32 PM
  #64
stokes84
Registered User
 
stokes84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 9,792
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to stokes84
We're not contending next year, so go with Leggio and Enroth. Find out what we have. We may have a gem on our hands. It would be shameful not to find out.

stokes84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 12:38 PM
  #65
gallagt01
Registered User
 
gallagt01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sloan
Posts: 9,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
We're not contending next year, so go with Leggio and Enroth. Find out what we have. We may have a gem on our hands. It would be shameful not to find out.
Hackett should have the full-time gig in Rochester. No reason not to give Leggio a chance during a rebuild.

How much longer until Hackett is waiver-eligible?

gallagt01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 01:12 PM
  #66
Der Jaeger
Registered User
 
Der Jaeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 2,413
vCash: 500
Hopefully Chicago doesn't win the Cup and decide to upgrade at goaltender.

Miller to the Blackhawks for Crawford, McNeill, and a 1st round pick.

Then select Fucale in the first round.

2013 Sabres
Crawford
Enroth
Let this duo backstop the wreck that's likely to be the 2013-2014 Sabres.

Hackett in Rochester to start the year.
Makarov, Fucale, Ullmark in the system.

Der Jaeger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 01:50 PM
  #67
Djp
Registered User
 
Djp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Seattle,WA
Posts: 7,247
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Hopefully Chicago doesn't win the Cup and decide to upgrade at goaltender.

Miller to the Blackhawks for Crawford, McNeill, and a 1st round pick.

Then select Fucale in the first round.

2013 Sabres
Crawford
Enroth
Let this duo backstop the wreck that's likely to be the 2013-2014 Sabres.

Hackett in Rochester to start the year.
Makarov, Fucale, Ullmark in the system.
If Buffalo acquired a goalie in return for Miller.....

I would look at moving Enroth in the offseason and have Hackett as a back up. Give Marakov full time at Rochester.

The other option is the hold onto Enroth but as the season goes on look for him to be dealt.

A possible move for Enroth---if the Kings move Bernier they need a back up so Buffalo could take Enroth + 2014 LAK 2nd for 2014 LAK 1st.

i think something else was discussed between the Kings and Sabres and will be revisited in the offseason.

Djp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 02:34 PM
  #68
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 36,242
vCash: 500
Is Hacket going to waiver eligible or not next season?




Since learning of Corsi/Regier's preference for bigger goalies. I've been starting to wonder if Enroth is the one heading out the door.

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 02:39 PM
  #69
Der Jaeger
Registered User
 
Der Jaeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 2,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
If Buffalo acquired a goalie in return for Miller.....

I would look at moving Enroth in the offseason and have Hackett as a back up. Give Marakov full time at Rochester.

The other option is the hold onto Enroth but as the season goes on look for him to be dealt.
My opinion on this type of situation differs. That set-up, for me, is designed for competition and staged progression at goaltender. Make players either step up and prove themselves, or not. Figure out who stays based on that.

Make Crawford and Enroth compete. Crawford wants to prove he's a full time starter, not part of a duo. Enroth wants to prove he's starting caliber.

Make Hackett prove he's ready for the NHL by dominating Rochester, and compelling the Sabres to call him up. Then he has to prove he's better than Crawford and Enroth.

Make Makarov prove he's ready to play for Rochester, and if so, make him compete with Hackett.

Let Fucale and Ullmark develop at a proper pace, with a lot of players ahead of them in the system.

This situation could end up with a Noronen or two, eg: highly regarded prospects that don't make it in the face of competition, and lose trade value. That could happen. I'd rather it happen then hand goaltender jobs to players for the sake of trade value, only to find out you traded a gem and kept a turd.

Der Jaeger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 02:39 PM
  #70
gallagt01
Registered User
 
gallagt01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sloan
Posts: 9,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Is Hacket going to waiver eligible or not next season?




Since learning of Corsi/Regier's preference for bigger goalies. I've been starting to wonder if Enroth is the one heading out the door.
I can't imagine that's the case for the immediate future. I'd say it just assures us that they acquired Hackett to take over for Miller as the team's starter. Enroth will stick around for another year or two but I have my doubts they're even considering him long-term.

gallagt01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 02:47 PM
  #71
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 36,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loods View Post
I can't imagine that's the case for the immediate future. I'd say it just assures us that they acquired Hackett to take over for Miller as the team's starter. Enroth will stick around for another year or two but I have my doubts they're even considering him long-term.
I'm of the mind that Miller isn't getting moved this summer so thats where my take comes from. But the idea that Hackett takes over with Enroth as the backup is an interesting thought.

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-14-2013, 02:59 PM
  #72
gallagt01
Registered User
 
gallagt01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sloan
Posts: 9,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I'm of the mind that Miller isn't getting moved this summer so thats where my take comes from. But the idea that Hackett takes over with Enroth as the backup is an interesting thought.
Gotcha. And yeah, although I assumed Enroth/Hackett would split the time.

gallagt01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 11:06 PM
  #73
Woodhouse
Global Moderator
Registered User
 
Woodhouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 8,955
vCash: 50
I started this earlier in the day, but just came back to it, so the numbers are current with Monday I think. Also, my intent here is not really to advocate for/against Miller or Enroth, nor is it to point out Miller's Vezina year as some kind of outlier, but instead to shift the perspective somewhat from purely goaltending results and reflect on how much our special teams, particularly the PK and SH GA, deflate their numbers.

***

Ryan Miller save stats since lockout:

YearGPGSES SA ES GA ES Sv ES Sv%PP SAPP GAPP SvPP Sv%SH SASH GASH SvSH Sv%Tot Sv%
2005-064847104885963.91930731276.89985877.906.914
2006-07636114601051355.92835154297.84675966.880.911
2007-08767516311391492.91538251331.86691784.923.906
2008-09595813751011274.92734742305.87951249.961.918
2009-10696816901211569.92832126295.91987384.966.929
2010-11666515651191446.92434339304.88656749.875.916
2011-12616014791161363.92226230232.88547443.915.916
2012-13363590065835.92821430184.86026422.846.913

Jhonas Enroth save stats since lockout:

YearGPGSES SA ES GA ES Sv ES Sv%PP SAPP GAPP SvPP Sv%SH SASH GASH SvSH Sv%Tot Sv%
2009-101126224.923523.6006061.000.892
2010-11141330925284.91958751.8791037.700.907
2011-12262260344559.92712416108.87129326.897.917
2012-1310822813215.94334529.85316313.813.924

BUF PK% and total times SH since lockout:

YearPK RankPK%TTSH RankTTSH
2005-062nd86.65th439
2006-0720th81.48th386
2007-0811th83.29th333
2008-0914th81.814th336
2009-102nd86.66th284
2010-1113th83.019th300
2011-1219th81.79th257
2012-1326th78.230th165

***

Behind this year's poor squad, Miller has put together a better season at ES than either of his last two years and his .928 ES SV% is on-par with that of his Vezina year in 2009-10. However, among starting goalies in 2012-13, that sits outside the top-10, so you could say that he's only been above average at ES this year (ie. Anderson elite; Lundqvist, Bobrovsky top-3; Rask, Crawford top-5; Howard, Fleury, Hiller, Rinne, Schneider top-10; Niemi, Holtby, Miller in next tier, among top-15 at ES). Meanwhile, as a backup, Enroth's .943 ES SV% is elite, a tier above Bernier, Vokoun, Lehner and Khabibulin (noting of course the small sample size for all here).

Now where their TOT SV% plummets this year is on special teams, as our undisciplined nature (TTSH=30th) and shortcomings (PP%=30th, PK%=26th, PPGA=30th, SHGA=30th) repeatedly put much of the load on the goaltender's shoulders. With the most TTSH, they see man-advantages more often than any other team and are further hindered by a bottom-5 PK unit, thereby deflating their stats. In theory, with less penalties, a marginally better PK and/or an organized PP, Miller could have .920+ TOT SV% (think eight less goals at current shot count .. think if we don't take some pointless penalty, they don't score on next shot .. cut the PP turnovers .. etc.) and be in the top-15 overall, but still not elite nor quite top-10, so again above average. Regardless, his current .913 TOT SV% remains average. Meanwhile, Enroth's in the same boat with our lack of discipline and special teams shortcomings, as his elite ES SV% is cut .019 percentage points due to 5 PP GA and 3 SH GA in his smaller sample size and trails an elite backup like Lehner, but remains among the top-5 with Khudobin, Bernier and LaBarbera.

Now look at our PK% and total times SH over the years and you'll see that behind our most disciplined squad and a top-2 PK, Miller earned his Vezina. You'll also notice his fluctuation in PP SV% coincides with the strength of our PK units, as does Enroth's. Furthermore, if you see what today's top-10 PK% team's goalies look like, you'll find a pattern that the top goalies are typically among the top PK teams (ie. BOS - Rask .929 TOT SV%, Khudobin .924; OTT - Anderson .949, Lehner .936; TOR - Reimer .925; SJS - Niemi .925; CHI - Crawford .926, Emery .923; STL - outlier one; CBJ - Bobrovsky .931; PHI - outlier two; VAN - Schneider .928; EDM - Dubnyk .922, Khabibulin .919).

In sum (or TL;DR), Regier or his replacement needs to address the special teams dysfunction to get this team wins, as the goalies are pulling their weight at ES.

***

Also, Rinne seems to have a comparable problem this year in Nashville, as his .931 ES SV% is mere points ahead of Miller's with a nearly even ES SA. However, Nashville owns an even worse PK (TTSH=5th, PK%=28th) than us, which results in a .914 TOT SV% for Rinne. Is the perception around here that he's now an average goalie? What about goalies who are statistically a tier worse than them this year, like Price, Ward, Pavelec, Brodeur, Halak, Quick? That NHL.com poll certainly still holds four of them in higher regard - Rinne, Price, Brodeur, Quick - than Miller despite their current numbers.


Last edited by Woodhouse: 04-16-2013 at 11:14 PM.
Woodhouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 11:58 PM
  #74
Prospector74
Registered User
 
Prospector74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Hollywood, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 644
vCash: 500
Trade Miller. Pick up Bryz on a short term deal when Philly buys him out. Hold on to Enroth. Let the younger guys develop. They either develop OR we need another vet cast off in a couple of years OR we take a run at someone legit if they become available.

Edit: just saying we shouldn't feel pressured to "solve" this long term this off season. I'm okay with a variety of paths (all have risks/unsure probabilities associated with them).

Prospector74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:43 AM
  #75
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 36,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
We're not contending next year, so go with Leggio and Enroth. Find out what we have. We may have a gem on our hands. It would be shameful not to find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loods View Post
Hackett should have the full-time gig in Rochester. No reason not to give Leggio a chance during a rebuild.

How much longer until Hackett is waiver-eligible?
Hackett will be in Buffalo... I don't think he's waiver eligible at all next year (someone correct me, im probably wrong). He's 23.

Jame is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:58 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.