HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > St. Louis Blues
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Game #41 Chicago Blackhawks @ St. Louis Blues / Bringing back the home whites edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-14-2013, 03:53 PM
  #351
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,415
vCash: 50
Tarasenko was at fault as much as Perron was at fault for some previous goals this season. Since he's a rookie, we won't go after him as much for it, but I also hope we don't just give him a complete pass on it because of how much hype we give him.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 03:53 PM
  #352
bluesman11
Robert Johnson
 
bluesman11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 760
vCash: 1111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thallis View Post
Honestly, I feel like you're putting a bit too much stake into what's happened. If the Blues find their offense in the next 8 games, they're going into the playoffs looking very impressive. I'm not even saying we should expect to beat these teams (moreso the Hawks, I'm just not convinced that we can't beat the Kings), it's just this defeatist attitude of acting like we've already been swept and the season over is annoying me.
It's easy to feel this way but we're all just fans here and what is said has zero effect on what is happening on the ice.

bluesman11 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 03:54 PM
  #353
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,415
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Dangles View Post
Tarasenko needs more ice. For anyone who looks at advanced statistics: Tarasekno is 13th in the league among forwards in Relative Corsi (for 20 or more games). If you don't know, its simply on-ice minus off ice corsi (goals + saves + missed shots + blocks per 60 minutes). Sure its just a stat and team reliant, but it is very telling. We are a much better team when he is on the ice. Yet he gets less than 12 minutes a game per 60 minutes. The only forwards who average less are Schwartz, Nichol, Porter and Reaves.

We need to score. Give him more time now, because come 2 week, I have a feeling we're gonna need his scoring ability even more. He might still be a rookie, but he's been playing with men for a while now, and has proven he can play at very high levels, and under pressure. The more time he gets the better. He's in great shape and could likely handle more ice time fairly easily. It's not going to hurt this team at all, he's far from a liablity. The best defense, is a good offense right?

Is there any argument for him getting 'low' ice time?
Actually watching him play and realizing he isn't make much of an impact.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 03:54 PM
  #354
EastonBlues22
Mod Supervisor
 
EastonBlues22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Liut View Post
Maybe not, but it sure helps. What about PP goals?
It helps, but even on special teams it's not the biggest of factors. Chicago's PP is sitting at 15.9% for the season, for example, and there's plenty of creativity on their PP. If what I saw today was any indication, their creativity is actually hurting them...they passed up way too many good shooting opportunities.

Hockey is all about getting the puck and traffic to the net (preferably from the middle of the ice). Creativity can help open lanes to the net, but it's not required, and it isn't going to set screens or fight for rebounds.

I would personally prefer to see most of the Blues forwards shoot more, not pass up shots to look for plays. Guys need to start being more selfish when they get the puck in a good shooting position.

EastonBlues22 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 03:58 PM
  #355
Celtic Note
Chi Town Bound
 
Celtic Note's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 8,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Tarasenko was at fault as much as Perron was at fault for some previous goals this season. Since he's a rookie, we won't go after him as much for it, but I also hope we don't just give him a complete pass on it because of how much hype we give him.
I personally think he needs a game off. He is watching the game way too much. It is as if he knows where to go positionally, but isn't sure enough of himself to commit.

Celtic Note is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 03:58 PM
  #356
EastonBlues22
Mod Supervisor
 
EastonBlues22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,272
vCash: 500
Regarding Tarasenko, I'm not the least bit concerned about him. There was always going to be an adjustment period to the Blues style of play from how he played in the KHL. I don't think what we're seeing now isn't anything to be particularly worried about long-term.

EastonBlues22 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 03:59 PM
  #357
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,415
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Note View Post
I personally think he needs a game off. He is watching the game way too much. It is as if he knows where to go positionally, but isn't sure enough of himself to commit.
Yeah, would probably help light a fire under him too.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:00 PM
  #358
EastonBlues22
Mod Supervisor
 
EastonBlues22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celtic Note View Post
I personally think he needs a game off. He is watching the game way too much. It is as if he knows where to go positionally, but isn't sure enough of himself to commit.
Reminds me of Stewart last year, but to a lesser extent. I expect we'll see better next year.

EastonBlues22 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:01 PM
  #359
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,415
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
Regarding Tarasenko, I'm not the least bit concerned about him. There was always going to be an adjustment period to the Blues style of play from how he played in the KHL. I don't think what we're seeing now isn't anything to be particularly worried about long-term.
I completely agree, just saying giving him more playing time won't solve the offense. Have a full training camp with the team would be huge for him next season.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:01 PM
  #360
Mr Dangles
I double dare you.
 
Mr Dangles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 1,991
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Actually watching him play and realizing he isn't make much of an impact.
So you think his ice time is appropriate? I don't. To me it is also important he gets acquainted to playing more per game. He makes mistakes, but so does every player on our team. No one is really exempt, and this guy has only played 31 NHL games. One of the best way to learn is to play more and gain experience, and like I said, he's not a liability. I don't see how it hurts the team.

Obviously this is not how Hitch feels, and I can't say I know more than he. But this is just my opinion on helping this team score more.

Mr Dangles is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:02 PM
  #361
TheOrganist
Don't Call Him Alex
 
TheOrganist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,875
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Liut View Post
Hard to create offense when Hitch frowns on creativity and his main objective to scoring is throw pucks on net from any angle and pray for a juicy rebound.
Please. Has nothing to do with coaching. The Blues do not have the talent to play anything remotely akin to an offensive oriented system. The problem is they cannot penetrate scoring areas on a consistent basis. We are a one and done team every time. The Rangers of the West.

TheOrganist is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:04 PM
  #362
Mr Dangles
I double dare you.
 
Mr Dangles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 1,991
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
Regarding Tarasenko, I'm not the least bit concerned about him. There was always going to be an adjustment period to the Blues style of play from how he played in the KHL. I don't think what we're seeing now isn't anything to be particularly worried about long-term.
I'm not concerned much about long term either, but I think it would be beneficial for the team short term if he was getting more ice, on par with our other skilled forwards.

Mr Dangles is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:04 PM
  #363
bluesman11
Robert Johnson
 
bluesman11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 760
vCash: 1111
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
It helps, but even on special teams it's not the biggest of factors. Chicago's PP is sitting at 15.9% for the season, for example, and there's plenty of creativity on their PP. If what I saw today was any indication, their creativity is actually hurting them...they passed up way too many good shooting opportunities.

Hockey is all about getting the puck and traffic to the net (preferably from the middle of the ice). Creativity can help open lanes to the net, but it's not required, and it isn't going to set screens or fight for rebounds.

I would personally prefer to see most of the Blues forwards shoot more, not pass up shots to look for plays. Guys need to start being more selfish when they get the puck in a good shooting position.
Controlling the center of the ice in the offensive zone is what they did much better last year, I believe that was Arnott's influence. Which just reinforces the need for that center upgrade.

bluesman11 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:05 PM
  #364
Celtic Note
Chi Town Bound
 
Celtic Note's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 8,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
It helps, but even on special teams it's not the biggest of factors. Chicago's PP is sitting at 15.9% for the season, for example, and there's plenty of creativity on their PP. If what I saw today was any indication, their creativity is actually hurting them...they passed up way too many good shooting opportunities.

Hockey is all about getting the puck and traffic to the net (preferably from the middle of the ice). Creativity can help open lanes to the net, but it's not required, and it isn't going to set screens or fight for rebounds.

I would personally prefer to see most of the Blues forwards shoot more, not pass up shots to look for plays. Guys need to start being more selfish when they get the puck in a good shooting position.
I feel like asking this team to do that would be trouble. For some reason they don't seem to understand or follow through on taking the right shots. When Hitch emphasizes shots, it seems like the players interpret that to mean shot at all costs. That is when we see all the shots from terrible angles and off shin pads.

I do agree that we need more quality shots. If the lane is open, take the shot. Preferably take the shot from the center of the ice, rather than from the extreme periphery.

Celtic Note is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:10 PM
  #365
Celtic Note
Chi Town Bound
 
Celtic Note's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 8,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
Regarding Tarasenko, I'm not the least bit concerned about him. There was always going to be an adjustment period to the Blues style of play from how he played in the KHL. I don't think what we're seeing now isn't anything to be particularly worried about long-term.
I agree. A learning and adjustment period was to be expected.

I think the benching would serve more as a teaching period then a slap on the wrist. Let Tarasenko see the game from the stands and understand that he has to be confident in his reads and that he has no reason not to be confident.

Celtic Note is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:14 PM
  #366
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,489
vCash: 500
Pens fan coming in Peace. Was hoping you guys would get the W today...

Been reading some of your comments about different players with interest. At the start of the season I would've been surprised if someone said you guys would have this much trouble scoring at points this season. Even without a true 1C your F depth is pretty sick.

Is there any thought that maybe there's a Hitchcock element to this? The style of play his teams have used has always been more conservative, and his limiting of rookie minutes is also a well-known phenomenon. I have to wonder if part of the problem is Hitch "teaching the young guys to play responsible," but to a fault... bringing them along too slowly. Looking at your lineup (which is fairly deep in terms of F talent), it's amazing to me Tarasenko is still on the 3rd line most of the time (right?). The ice time he gets is just... I don't get it. Even as an outside fan. Makes no sense to me / can't see a logical reason for it.

I would've thought by now they would've put a defensively responsible C with he and Schwartz and let them develop some chemistry and game together. The times I've seen Tarasenko his game has been pretty resonsible and unselfish. Not like he's the crazy Euro-kid out there trying to make a highlight reel... I dunno. I have a feeling your team will not take that next level jump until Hitchcock is gone. One of those things where you have one coach develop players and a sense of team identity... and he takes them to a point, and then the next guy rides the wave (but couldn't have done it without the work put in by Hitch).

Fair assessment?

All I know is you guys have a potentially (extremely) deep roster in the years ahead. Just need that true 1C, let Backes be 2C. Would be a shame to see the likes of Tarasenko, Schwartz, Jaskin throttled back all the time because of Hitch.

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:18 PM
  #367
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,415
vCash: 50
Hitchcock is not the problem.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:18 PM
  #368
taylord22
Registered User
 
taylord22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 985
vCash: 500
I still dont get how you lambast a player trying to cut to the middle vs. one who handcuffs the cycle by forcing a chip pass at the blue-line. If that's our MO moving forward, then we should really think about re-orienting our forward corp.

No, we don't have an abundance of top-end talent, but we've got more than a team like Montreal that eems to get along just fine.

I'm not blaming the lack of offense on coaching; I just don't agree with that play being one of the only ones all year to be singled out. It hasn't been a trend, necessarily ( though I agree he needs to shoot more). But, when your vets have been committing much more consistent offenses, why publicly slam the rookie?

The answer, I fear, is to justify sitting him on Tuesday.

taylord22 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:21 PM
  #369
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,489
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Hitchcock is not the problem.
I realize he's not THE problem (ultimately the players have to perform), but wondering if maybe he's too unyielding / conservative in how he approaches things... with rookies especially. FWIW I'm not suggesting he's a bad coach (he's a good coach on the whole), just wondering if you guys think some of the "pattern" of constantly getting into low scoring situations might be attributable to his style of coaching / handling of certain players.

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:21 PM
  #370
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,415
vCash: 50
Hitchcock always talks about specific plays like that. It's not like this is the first time he did that.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:23 PM
  #371
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,415
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I realize he's not THE problem (ultimately the players have to perform), but wondering if maybe he's too unyielding / conservative in how he approaches things... with rookies especially.
Tarasenko's good, but his impact has not nearly been on the level at what it was early in the season. When it started going down, he went from the 2nd line to the 3rd line and his impact never went back up. He hasn't earned at top 6 spot back yet.

Lack of training camp is a major reason, but it's not like he is a star yet.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:24 PM
  #372
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,489
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Tarasenko's good, but his impact has not nearly been on the level at what it was early in the season. When it started going down, he went from the 2nd line to the 3rd line and his impact never went back up. He hasn't earned at top 6 spot back yet.

Lack of training camp is a major reason, but it's not like he is a star yet.
Fair enough. Thanks for the insight. Sort of seemed like after the concussion the minutes were down and stayed down and was thinking maybe he's the type that needs more minutes (every player is different).

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:25 PM
  #373
MattyMo35
Moderator
Schwartz Be With You
 
MattyMo35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 7,252
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by taylord22 View Post
I still dont get how you lambast a player trying to cut to the middle vs. one who handcuffs the cycle by forcing a chip pass at the blue-line. If that's our MO moving forward, then we should really think about re-orienting our forward corp.

No, we don't have an abundance of top-end talent, but we've got more than a team like Montreal that eems to get along just fine.

I'm not blaming the lack of offense on coaching; I just don't agree with that play being one of the only ones all year to be singled out. It hasn't been a trend, necessarily ( though I agree he needs to shoot more). But, when your vets have been committing much more consistent offenses, why publicly slam the rookie?

The answer, I fear, is to justify sitting him on Tuesday.
I don't fear that at all. If Hitch sits him, he certainly has compiled enough evidence to justify it. He's just a warm body out there at this point. Let Jaskin slide in his spot, see what happens. If Jaskin has more of an effect on the game, keep him in. If not, bring Vladi back. Removing Tarasenko from the lineup does not make it any worse because he's simply not generating anything recently. He's been playing a lot of hockey this year, I can imagine he's pretty worn out. Let him sit a couple and see if he comes back rejuvenated.

MattyMo35 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:28 PM
  #374
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 20,415
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Fair enough. Thanks for the insight. Sort of seemed like after the concussion the minutes were down and stayed down and was thinking maybe he's the type that needs more minutes (every player is different).
Watching him play, he is the same player, but it's not a concussion thing IMO, it's more of a rookie thing. He needs time to adjust to this league. He started on fire and once defenses realized how good he was, they started to put more guys on him.

A full training camp is what I think he needs.

bleedblue1223 is offline  
Old
04-14-2013, 04:28 PM
  #375
taylord22
Registered User
 
taylord22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 985
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Tarasenko's good, but his impact has not nearly been on the level at what it was early in the season. When it started going down, he went from the 2nd line to the 3rd line and his impact never went back up. He hasn't earned at top 6 spot back yet.

Lack of training camp is a major reason, but it's not like he is a star yet.
AndyMac's decline/injury (compared to where he was early on) is also a big aspect of Tarasenko's dwindling numbers. Since coming back from his injury, he's played with a partially injured AndyMac and David Perron who is pretty far from a playmaker.

taylord22 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:17 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.