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Best young top-6 forward available for Cory Schneider

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Old
04-14-2013, 08:01 PM
  #51
ottawa
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Spoken like a fan who hasn't watch a Canucks game all year..
Spoken like a Canucks fan who is valuing their good (yes I think he's awesome) goalie too high. I like Schneider and he's been great for you guys so far...not often you'll see me knocking on him. I'm just saying he's not worth a top 6 based on recent history. No team will gamble a sure fire top 6 winger for a good goalie, let alone one who has under 100 games played. I'm sorry if my opinion hurts you or you just simply don't like it. In my previous post I posted an article talking about recent goalie trades and the returns, the writer talks about how risky the goalie market can be.

Also, why would Canucks fans even think of trading a goalie like Schneider...or was this thread created just to see what other teams thing his value is?

Anyways, as I mentioned earlier, as good as Schneider is, I think he'll only fetch a prospect with top 6 upside + 2nd or maybe a couple of 2nds. At the very best, I think he can net a very late 1st. Sorry if you Canucks fans disagree with me, just my opinion.

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04-14-2013, 08:04 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by The Big D View Post
Leafs say no to Schneider for JVR unless there's a nice + added to Schneider. 1st line power forward wingers on 35 goal pace > a startig goalie, which if you've been paying any attention to the leafs already have one of, maybe even a competent 1B in scrabbles as well. Enjoy your two headed monster killing $9.5 in cap
JVR has size and skill, but that doesn't make him a power forward. He is soft around the net and doesn't hit much. Not trying to take anything away from him. Also he isn't on pace to score 35, on bigger sample he is most likely a 25-30 goal scorer. It's nice to see how modest Leaf fans are at making playoffs, for first time since 2 previous CBA agreements.

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04-14-2013, 08:07 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Haha yeah JVR is a good top 6 winger with upside. Cory Schneider is an elite goaltender with upside. I'm pretty sure the 2 aren't of equal value.

Thats where my example comes in, Garrison and Bieksa are very good defenseman, but not at the level of Kessel.
Honestly, leafs wouldn't trade JVR for Schneider. JVR is very important to this team and has been great on the first line for us. He's a big body with skill and actually goes to the net hard. Not to mention we are happy with Reimer who is younger and has almost identical stats.

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04-14-2013, 08:10 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
JVR has size and skill, but that doesn't make him a power forward. He is soft around the net and doesn't hit much. Not trying to take anything away from him. Also he isn't on pace to score 35, on bigger sample he is most likely a 25-30 goal scorer. It's nice to see how modest Leaf fans are at making playoffs, for first time since 2 previous CBA agreements.
He's not a power forward but he is a big body and definitely isn't soft around the net. I don't know how he was in Phily but he has been excellent infront of the net and he's always looking to go there. That's where the majority of his goals have come from too.

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04-14-2013, 08:10 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Spoken like a Canucks fan who is valuing their good (yes I think he's awesome) goalie too high. I like Schneider and he's been great for you guys so far...not often you'll see me knocking on him. I'm just saying he's not worth a top 6 based on recent history. No team will gamble a sure fire top 6 winger for a good goalie, let alone one who has under 100 games played. I'm sorry if my opinion hurts you or you just simply don't like it. In my previous post I posted an article talking about recent goalie trades and the returns, the writer talks about how risky the goalie market can be.

Also, why would Canucks fans even think of trading a goalie like Schneider...or was this thread created just to see what other teams thing his value is?

Anyways, as I mentioned earlier, as good as Schneider is, I think he'll only fetch a prospect with top 6 upside + 2nd or maybe a couple of 2nds. At the very best, I think he can net a very late 1st. Sorry if you Canucks fans disagree with me, just my opinion.
Do you think he would fetch as much as Varlamov or the same as Regeir did at deadline. Nice Homer comments.

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04-14-2013, 08:11 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
He's not a power forward but he is a big body and definitely isn't soft around the net. I don't know how he was in Phily but he has been excellent infront of the net and he's always looking to go there. That's where the majority of his goals have come from too.
Really soft in front of net, that's why Leaf broadcasters constantly say he needs to go to the net more.

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04-14-2013, 08:11 PM
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Sergei Shirokov
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1) @ already being elite with under 100 season games
2) Halak was traded after an amazing season and a more amazing playoff run, his value was more than Schneiders then (debatable) and his return wasn't much at that point in time.

Canucks fans need to accept that goalies don't hold much value, no matter how good they are. Once you guys accept that, then the trade proposal threads will go better when they involve one of your goalies.

I'd also like to know 3 good returns goalies have fetched since the 2004 lockout...anyone want to help me out on this?
Glady.

Raycroft, Luongo, Varlamov.

And this isn't the same as the Halak thing, Schneider hasn't had one great playoff run, Schneider has been outstanding since stepping foot in this league.

Aswell Halak hasn't been as good as he was in that run, so the return can be more easily justified.

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04-14-2013, 08:13 PM
  #58
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I hate Canucks fans as much as the next poster, but assuming his play holds up, Schneider will bring a descent return.

Surprised no one bought up Varlamov yet. He bought back what was to be expected a high first round pick. Closest comparable.
You still thinking of offer sheeting Tanev?

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04-14-2013, 08:14 PM
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Really soft in front of net, that's why Leaf broadcasters constantly say he needs to go to the net more.
They say that because he's scored almost all his goals from around the crease. So, obviously it'd be a good thing if he went to the net more.

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04-14-2013, 08:15 PM
  #60
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Do you think he would fetch as much as Varlamov or the same as Regeir did at deadline. Nice Homer comments.
What homer comments? lol

In this draft think he could fetch a very late 1st rounder at best, I think most people would agree Varlamov may have been worth a 1st rounder but he definitely wasn't worth a 9th overall. And what does Regehr have to do with a goalie trade?

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04-14-2013, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
What homer comments? lol

In this draft think he could fetch a very late 1st rounder at best, I think most people would agree Varlamov may have been worth a 1st rounder but he definitely wasn't worth a 9th overall. And what does Regehr have to do with a goalie trade?
Saying Schneider would fetch a very late 1st rounder at best is a homer comment. It's like saying M. Subban has more value than Schneider lol. Regeir fetched 2 2nds just now, and you said Schneider may just fetch a couple 2nds.

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04-14-2013, 08:18 PM
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They say that because he's scored almost all his goals from around the crease. So, obviously it'd be a good thing if he went to the net more.
He's a good player, but he is soft considering his size.

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04-14-2013, 08:19 PM
  #63
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He's a good player, but he is soft considering his size.
He's not soft. You can keep saying it, but it doesn't make it any more true. Kessel is soft. JVR isn't.

Just look at his goals this season: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...474037&lang=en

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04-14-2013, 08:22 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Glady.

Raycroft, Luongo, Varlamov.

And this isn't the same as the Halak thing, Schneider hasn't had one great playoff run, Schneider has been outstanding since stepping foot in this league.

Aswell Halak hasn't been as good as he was in that run, so the return can be more easily justified.
I disagree with Raycroft, he was a calder winner and was amazing during his first year playing almost 60 games + playoffs with Boston and you think Rask was a big return for him at that point in time?

Luongo got a big return but at that point in time he was a top 3 goalie year after year so that was justified.

Varlamov...well you got me there but I think almost every fan can agree Varlamov wasn't worth a 9th overall so why would Schneider be, especially this year?

2007 Luongo > 2005 Raycroft > Schneider = Varlamov

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04-14-2013, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Honestly, leafs wouldn't trade JVR for Schneider. JVR is very important to this team and has been great on the first line for us. He's a big body with skill and actually goes to the net hard. Not to mention we are happy with Reimer who is younger and has almost identical stats.
Good, we wouldn't trade Schneider straight across for JVR. He has displaced our generational talent and other elite goaltender, and is elite in his own right and has almost single handedly carried our team for a large part of the season.

And Schneider has better stats than Riemer especially consider the defensive support and goal support.

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04-14-2013, 08:23 PM
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If Reimer **** his pants this year I would have been for a Schneider/JVR swap. Considering he has played very well this season, the Leafs have no reason to make this trade.

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04-14-2013, 08:23 PM
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He's not soft. You can keep saying it, but it doesn't make it any more true. Kessel is soft. JVR isn't.

Just look at his goals this season: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...474037&lang=en
Thanks but JVR is soft. Ask a person who works in the industry.

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04-14-2013, 08:25 PM
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If Reimer **** his pants this year I would have been for a Schneider/JVR swap. Considering he has played very well this season, the Leafs have no reason to make this trade.
I wouldn't trade Schneider for JVR anyways. Schneider is one of the best goalies in the NHL, JVR isn't close to being a top 30 forward in the NHL.

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04-14-2013, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
I disagree with Raycroft, he was a calder winner and was amazing during his first year playing almost 60 games + playoffs with Boston and you think Rask was a big return for him at that point in time?

Luongo got a big return but at that point in time he was a top 3 goalie year after year so that was justified.

Varlamov...well you got me there but I think almost every fan can agree Varlamov wasn't worth a 9th overall so why would Schneider be, especially this year?

2007 Luongo > 2005 Raycroft > Schneider = Varlamov
Homer fan. Saying this with no facts.

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04-14-2013, 08:26 PM
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Saying Schneider would fetch a very late 1st rounder at best is a homer comment. It's like saying M. Subban has more value than Schneider lol. Regeir fetched 2 2nds just now, and you said Schneider may just fetch a couple 2nds.
I don't think you realize Regehr is a defenseman unless we're talking about a different Regehr, so I'm confused as to what he has to do with this. And no I don't think M.Subban has more value than Schneider, I just think goalies in general tend to not have much value...I don't see how a late 1st at best is a bad deal for Schneider, wouldn't Canucks fans be happy with that?

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04-14-2013, 08:27 PM
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You clearly haven't watched JVR play if you think he's soft in front of the net or doesn't go to that area.

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04-14-2013, 08:28 PM
  #72
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Homer fan. Saying this with no facts.
How am I a homer? I'm a habs fan lol

Saying what with no facts. You think Luongo during his Florida days wasn't worth Bertuzzi? Or are you saying that the Raycroft who won a calder while playing 57 games wasn't worth an unproven/rookie Rask? You lost me...

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04-14-2013, 08:29 PM
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I wouldn't trade Schneider for JVR anyways. Schneider is one of the best goalies in the NHL, JVR isn't close to being a top 30 forward in the NHL.
That's great, but I was addressing the OP who obviously would do the swap.

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04-14-2013, 08:30 PM
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1) @ already being elite with under 100 season games
2) Halak was traded after an amazing season and a more amazing playoff run, his value was more than Schneiders then (debatable) and his return wasn't much at that point in time.

Canucks fans need to accept that goalies don't hold much value, no matter how good they are. Once you guys accept that, then the trade proposal threads will go better when they involve one of your goalies.

I'd also like to know 3 good returns goalies have fetched since the 2004 lockout...anyone want to help me out on this?
JVR has 1 full year and this half year of top 6 production, he is not a top 6 forward?

Johnathon Quick has had 1 year of elite stats, is he not elite?

C'mon.

Anyone who has watched this team can easily see he is elite. If not then how did he displace Luongo, a generational talent, who is definetly elite, from the starter position?

Seriously, there is a reason he is in Vezina conversation, last I heard the guys you are comparing him too haven't been.

This guy is most certainly elite and anyone who has watched a handful of Canucks games this year can see that.

On a team with the Sedins, Luongo, and more. He is the best player, and has been the best player this season. Easily.

Edit: and I have no idea why people make these threads, its just a small group that want Luongo to stay. The Majority of Canucks fans have no interest in trading Schneider.

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You still thinking of offer sheeting Tanev?
Id be crushed.

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04-14-2013, 08:32 PM
  #75
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That's great, but I was addressing the OP who obviously would do the swap.
Not necessarily. I was simply throwing out ideas of what players a deal might be centred around. Obviously not all of those players have the same value.

That said, I do think Toronto is unlikely to address their goaltending in the offseason barring a monumental goaltending collapse in the playoffs.

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