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What would your team give up for Kennedy, Jeffrey, and Orpik?

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Old
04-14-2013, 01:59 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Would be a 7th; our 6th is in the hands of the Rangers after the Gaborik trade.

He's at least scored in the past, and we've had such good fortune with Letestu that, y'know, TK might be worth trying.
Letestu and Kennedy were very good together when Staal was out in '10-'11 too.

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04-14-2013, 06:41 PM
  #27
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I'd like to think it would take more than a 7th to get Kennedy...but not that much more.

I'm expecting a 4th or 5th, depending on his play in the playoffs. Kennedy to Columbus would be a good fit.

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04-14-2013, 07:35 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
Orpik - Could still be a top 4 dman. Signed for one year at 3.75m
Kennedy - RFA rights (assume he'll sign with your team for at least a qualifying offer)
Jeffrey - RFA rights. Same thing, assume he'll sign for at least a qo.
Buffalo would take Oprik for something

Oprik for BUF 7th
Oprik + PIT 1st for BUF 2nd + BUF 6th.

He would be the type they may be interested only if they were going to add a vet dman. Another factor--- he is a Buffalo area native.

Next year BUF will want to see what they have

Ehrhoff Myers
Sekera Pysyk

McNabb
Ruhwedel
Weber RFA likely to re-sign
Pardy UFA
Sulzer UFA
They have 2 other Dmen at AHL level
They own the rights to another college Dman McCabe from Wisconsin/team USA U20 captain.


Last edited by Djp: 04-14-2013 at 07:42 PM.
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04-14-2013, 07:47 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Would be a 7th; our 6th is in the hands of the Rangers after the Gaborik trade.

He's at least scored in the past, and we've had such good fortune with Letestu that, y'know, TK might be worth trying.
ok TK for a 2014 7th? i'd do that.

he'd probably do well with Letestu again, too.

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04-14-2013, 11:29 PM
  #30
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They basically let TK go FA status last time and the same will happen here. He will be free on the market come July whatever it is now.

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04-14-2013, 11:36 PM
  #31
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Buffalo would take Oprik for something

Oprik for BUF 7th
Oprik + PIT 1st for BUF 2nd + BUF 6th.
So, we would be paying Buffalo to take this guy Oprik off our hands? Don't know him, but seems a stretch.

Our alternate captain, Brooks Orpik, one of two D-men in the league with more than 100 hits and blocked shots, someone playing 22.46 a night, and the hardest minutes on our team at that, leading our D-men with +17 so far (tied for third in the league among D-men).... and signed for one more season still at a very reasonable 3.75.... no, he is going to fetch quite a return if he was traded.

This is not saying that all is well with Orpik, but this thread is insane in how much it underrates him. Goes for many Pens fans too.

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04-14-2013, 11:41 PM
  #32
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Lol, Orpik for a 7th?

So a team that doesn't really need him, is going to trade for him for what reason then? There are a lot of teams that would want him, Shero knows that and he would get a good return for him.

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04-14-2013, 11:46 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Lol, Orpik for a 7th?

So a team that doesn't really need him, is going to trade for him for what reason then? There are a lot of teams that would want him, Shero knows that and he would get a good return for him.
this. someone pointed out earlier that the market was set with Murray. of course, the market will be a bit different in the offseason, but to think Orpik is worth only a 7th OR that he and a 1st are worth a 2nd and a 6th is ridiculous. apparently Orpik is the worst player in NHL history because i never saw a trade where the team unloading the player DOWNGRADED their first round pick just to get a late, insignificant pick.

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04-14-2013, 11:49 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Buffalo would take Oprik for something

Oprik for BUF 7th
Oprik + PIT 1st for BUF 2nd + BUF 6th.


He would be the type they may be interested only if they were going to add a vet dman. Another factor--- he is a Buffalo area native.

Next year BUF will want to see what they have

Ehrhoff Myers
Sekera Pysyk

McNabb
Ruhwedel
Weber RFA likely to re-sign
Pardy UFA
Sulzer UFA
They have 2 other Dmen at AHL level
They own the rights to another college Dman McCabe from Wisconsin/team USA U20 captain.
i think i pointed this out in my other post, but that value is absolutely horrible. give me one good reason why the Pens should even think of doing that. Carl Sneep got that kind of return and you think Orpik will only get that?

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04-15-2013, 12:03 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domaug View Post
this. someone pointed out earlier that the market was set with Murray. of course, the market will be a bit different in the offseason, but to think Orpik is worth only a 7th OR that he and a 1st are worth a 2nd and a 6th is ridiculous. apparently Orpik is the worst player in NHL history because i never saw a trade where the team unloading the player DOWNGRADED their first round pick just to get a late, insignificant pick.
Orpik is basically going to be a cap casualty and because of the depth on the team. Not because he sucks. Guys like Martin and Letang are worth more to the team going forward and Despres is deserving of more ice time and the Pens have Niskanen and Bortuzzo with a ton of very solid youngsters that are in the AHL or soon to be there that could step up.

No one wants to see a long time member go, but sometimes it's truly just business. Orpik has a NMC, a limited one I believe. That might make it a little tough to move him, but he has to present 8 teams he is not willing to go to. That helps. Rangers, Thrashers/Jets, and Kings were incredibly enamoured with Orpik not so long ago, they were willing to pay him more than what Scuderi got with LA.

The value for Orpik is there, Murray got two 2nd rounders for a guy that is quite a few steps slower than Brooks and a rental. A guy that is signed under 4m/yr that can be a huge physical presence for some teams is going to be highly sought after. If not for their own contention, to mentor their young defensemen because they lack a quality defensive defenseman themselves. Orpik the last 2yrs including this season, has seemed to be regressing in the Penguins system, he has great games, but other times it just seems like the Pens are moving in another way and have a lot of young guys that should be getting more time. Someone has to be "pushed" out.

Orpik could also be the difference in keeping Iginla and Dupuis in Pittsburgh and maybe even Matt Cooke. When you factor that in, Shero has to consider it.

At worst, he tries to keep Murray for around what Niskanen makes, for 1yr to make up for the physicality lost and Murray would be better off on the 3rd pairing with rotating partners in Engelland and Bortuzzo.

Going forward...

Despres, Letang
Niskanen, Martin
Murray, Engelland/Bortuzzo

Everyone is on the side they are best (Nisky on the left, Martin on the right).

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Old
04-15-2013, 12:06 AM
  #36
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And TK is worth more than a 6th or 7th. He's an RFA, not some freaking UFA that is a 4th line bum, for 3rd line minutes he's a beast on the forecheck and back check, is good for 40pts and brings it every game. He's having a down season in a shortened season. For people saying he sucks because his numbers suck, really?

That's like people saying Dupuis is a 40 goal scorer because in a ppg world, he would be in 82 games, but we all know in a full 82 games, a lot of things can happen, scoring streaks, cold streaks, etc.

Shero would likely package him with something to get a better return.

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04-15-2013, 12:13 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by domaug View Post
i think i pointed this out in my other post, but that value is absolutely horrible. give me one good reason why the Pens should even think of doing that. Carl Sneep got that kind of return and you think Orpik will only get that?
Buffalo really doesnt need him but this is looked at as a way by Pittsburgh around releasing him/buying him out without taking the cap hit.

this is no different than some others have talked about with other players of trading for cap dumps and buying them out or trading a player through a team and they eat part of the cap hit in exchange for picks/prospects.

As I also said in my post Buffalo may not be interested in him given their young Dman they want to give ice time to....and he is a Buffalo native (good PR move)

They may be interested in a cheap vet dman for a season as a transition and a back up option that they would sign as a 1 or 2 yr at around $2M per.

For them to take Oprik at a higher price than that $2M would mean them benefiting elsewhere such as an additional pick or a flipping of picks where buffalo can improve draft position.

If you want to get higher picks then talk to other teams.

for a defensive Dman making around $4M per you you may get something around a 2nd. Because Pittsburgh is desperate to move salary on their team they lost their bargaining power and the value would likely drop considerably.

If you were willing to wait till the trade deadline you probably could get around a 2nd and a 3rd for him.

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04-15-2013, 12:46 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Buffalo really doesnt need him but this is looked at as a way by Pittsburgh around releasing him/buying him out without taking the cap hit.

this is no different than some others have talked about with other players of trading for cap dumps and buying them out or trading a player through a team and they eat part of the cap hit in exchange for picks/prospects.

As I also said in my post Buffalo may not be interested in him given their young Dman they want to give ice time to....and he is a Buffalo native (good PR move)

They may be interested in a cheap vet dman for a season as a transition and a back up option that they would sign as a 1 or 2 yr at around $2M per.

For them to take Oprik at a higher price than that $2M would mean them benefiting elsewhere such as an additional pick or a flipping of picks where buffalo can improve draft position.

If you want to get higher picks then talk to other teams.

for a defensive Dman making around $4M per you you may get something around a 2nd. Because Pittsburgh is desperate to move salary on their team they lost their bargaining power and the value would likely drop considerably.

If you were willing to wait till the trade deadline you probably could get around a 2nd and a 3rd for him.
And why would Shero resort to this? You assume that Brooks Orpik has no value and that at 3.75m/yr for 1 more year after this season, his cap hit is suddenly too high for another team to take on for what he brings at age 32 going on 33.

If Buffalo isn't interested in him, then stop talking about him going there. Plain and simple. All you've done is this...

"My team doesn't want him, don't need him, with that said, we'll offer you the most insulting offer we can because it makes sense to me...somehow, it truly does."

Penguins can move Brooks Orpik and not have a damn problem doing it. So stop assuming like we're "stuck" with Orpik. You've already proven you know next to nothing about the Penguins situation or the player - Brooks Orpik.

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04-15-2013, 07:38 AM
  #39
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Yeah, I would expect mid-picks for TK and Jeffrey but a 7th for Orpik - or worse, Orpik & a 1st for a 2nd & a 6th - is crazy. Even if the Pens had their first there's no way on earth they'd ever do that. Shero's just not going to give him away and he's certainly not going to pay somebody to take him.

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04-15-2013, 08:35 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
I'd like to think it would take more than a 7th to get Kennedy...but not that much more.

I'm expecting a 4th or 5th, depending on his play in the playoffs. Kennedy to Columbus would be a good fit.
When we traded a 4th for Letestu, he still had a year left on his contract at a reasonable rate. TK has no years left and will be expecting a raise. I'd think a 5th would be the ceiling.

(That and the last time we traded a 5th for a player's rights we were after Wisniewski, who's our top PP point weapon. But then again, those were UFA rights, not RFA rights.)

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04-15-2013, 12:01 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
When we traded a 4th for Letestu, he still had a year left on his contract at a reasonable rate. TK has no years left and will be expecting a raise. I'd think a 5th would be the ceiling.

(That and the last time we traded a 5th for a player's rights we were after Wisniewski, who's our top PP point weapon. But then again, those were UFA rights, not RFA rights.)
I'm not sure TK should be expecting a raise, he hasn't had a great year and with the cap going down there is potential that 3rd liners, 4th liners and bottom pairing are the guys likely to feel the squeeze IMO. I think he's worth a 3rd/4th depending how he does in the playoffs.

Carolina makes the most sense I think to shop TK to, he had good chemistry with Staal and Carolina are in need of bottom 6ers who can provide some offence.

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04-15-2013, 12:07 PM
  #42
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Orpik still has decent value despite not being what he used to be. Guys like Regehr and Murray are still fetching multiple 2nd's and that's just as rentals.

I'm not sure Jeffrey has much value. I think he can be a good bottom 6 guy in the league but the return will likely be minimal. I think the Pens will likely keep him since he'll be cheap to qualify as an RFA.

The Pens won't qualify Kennedy at 2 million and I think other teams know that. I'd be somewhat surprised if Shero can get anything for him.

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04-15-2013, 12:46 PM
  #43
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Orpik still has decent value despite not being what he used to be. Guys like Regehr and Murray are still fetching multiple 2nd's and that's just as rentals.

I'm not sure Jeffrey has much value. I think he can be a good bottom 6 guy in the league but the return will likely be minimal. I think the Pens will likely keep him since he'll be cheap to qualify as an RFA.

The Pens won't qualify Kennedy at 2 million and I think other teams know that. I'd be somewhat surprised if Shero can get anything for him.
On Oprik...
Those deals were at the trade deadline by teams who felt they needed a vet defenseman for the playoff push. The historical price for rental defenseman are a 2nd and a 3rd +/- 1-2 round based on market and player.

Offseason its very different. Teams dont necessarily need or want that vet Dman that they otherwise would want at the deadline.

Since Pittsburgh is considered near the cap and thus needing to sell to sign players their value goes down.

If Pittsburgh waited to the deadline or eats part of his salary then they could get a 2nd and a 4th for him. Not now.

this isnt anything new when it comes to trades. Similarly you loose a key player for the season and you feel you need to replce him now the price you will have to pay likely doubles if not more.

You need to move a player because of cap impact---same thing except the price is cut by half if not more.

Since Oprik has some control on trades he could strategically limit is likely trade destination to about 4 teams thus reducing the price on him.

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04-15-2013, 12:47 PM
  #44
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Orpik still has decent value despite not being what he used to be. Guys like Regehr and Murray are still fetching multiple 2nd's and that's just as rentals.

I'm not sure Jeffrey has much value. I think he can be a good bottom 6 guy in the league but the return will likely be minimal. I think the Pens will likely keep him since he'll be cheap to qualify as an RFA.

The Pens won't qualify Kennedy at 2 million and I think other teams know that. I'd be somewhat surprised if Shero can get anything for him.
Totally agree, with the addition of Jokinen and the fact that he has 1 year left on his contract it's pretty safe to assume Shero is letting Kennedy go unless the guy takes a pay cut which I wouldn't bet on. He isn't the kind of player you would trade a pick for to start negotiating with in the summer, he will be out there July 1st(or which date they chose this year cause of the lockout)

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04-15-2013, 12:57 PM
  #45
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When we traded a 4th for Letestu, he still had a year left on his contract at a reasonable rate. TK has no years left and will be expecting a raise. I'd think a 5th would be the ceiling.
You cannot really compare though. The Pens traded Letestu because of the contract limit as well as him being severely underperforming when starting the season somewhat injured.

Kennedy SUCKED for a long time to start this season, but is putting it together again and has a completely different CV compared to Letestu when traded.... or now for that matter... despite being younger than Mark.

Either way, I don't think Kennedy will get a raise, the opposite will be true. Pens won't qualify him and will instead send a much lower offer his way, if they send one at all.

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04-15-2013, 01:29 PM
  #46
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Orpik would be a very nice fit in Winnipeg as it looks like the Jets are going to lose Hainsy to free agency.

Orpik would slide into Hainsy's role as Bogosian's partner on the defensive pairing, and play heavy short handed minutes.

I wouldn't want the Jets to give up a lot due to Orpik's UFA status in one season, but if the price was reasonable it might be a good fit.

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04-15-2013, 01:53 PM
  #47
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On Oprik...
Those deals were at the trade deadline by teams who felt they needed a vet defenseman for the playoff push. The historical price for rental defenseman are a 2nd and a 3rd +/- 1-2 round based on market and player.

Offseason its very different. Teams dont necessarily need or want that vet Dman that they otherwise would want at the deadline.

Since Pittsburgh is considered near the cap and thus needing to sell to sign players their value goes down.

If Pittsburgh waited to the deadline or eats part of his salary then they could get a 2nd and a 4th for him. Not now.

this isnt anything new when it comes to trades. Similarly you loose a key player for the season and you feel you need to replce him now the price you will have to pay likely doubles if not more.

You need to move a player because of cap impact---same thing except the price is cut by half if not more.

Since Oprik has some control on trades he could strategically limit is likely trade destination to about 4 teams thus reducing the price on him.
Fair enough, but it's not like the Pens don't have other options in terms of moving salary. Certainly they're not going to throw in their first rounder just to move him even if they still had it. He has more value than that whether the Pens arguably need to move him or not. Some team in need of a physical D will pay more than a 7th and the issue of the Pens adding a 1st rounder will never even enter the equation. If that's the only deal Shero could find for him I have no doubt that he'd easily pass and pursue other avenues.

Honestly, I question whether or not they'll move him at all. As much as Pens fans have soured on him he brings elements that the Pens' other D-men lack, namely hitting and especially shot blocking. I think there are going to be some disappointed Pens fans if they have their hearts set on Orpik being traded.

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04-15-2013, 02:01 PM
  #48
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Honestly, I question whether or not they'll move him at all.
Honestly? It would be a massive surprise if they do. Pens Nation group think has him leaving, but we need a culprit.

Not to say that moving Orpik couldn't be the right thing to do, but we have THREE guys who are bonafide and confirmed top4 D-men. Orpik is one of them, so dealing him is iffy never mind if we have good upcoming guys.

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04-15-2013, 02:05 PM
  #49
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Orpik would be a very nice fit in Winnipeg as it looks like the Jets are going to lose Hainsy to free agency.

Orpik would slide into Hainsy's role as Bogosian's partner on the defensive pairing, and play heavy short handed minutes.

I wouldn't want the Jets to give up a lot due to Orpik's UFA status in one season, but if the price was reasonable it might be a good fit.
i was actually thinking that an Orpik + TK package to Winnipeg would be interesting. as you said, Orpik can play the second-pairing and take heavy PK minutes. TK provides a shoot-first tweener RW - he could give Santorelli and Wellwood a run for their money.

i won't venture to guess the value of a Orpik + TK package.

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04-15-2013, 02:12 PM
  #50
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Kennedy is the prize hog of this offseason

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