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Lundqvist - Two Weak Games, Bounce Back Buddy

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Old
04-15-2013, 03:47 AM
  #151
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I don't care who we play in terms of record, but seriously the Caps AGAIN??

It'll be like getting neutered.

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04-15-2013, 04:11 AM
  #152
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Or you know, the jets can go on a home-stand tear and WSH lands back on earth and we play WPG.

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04-15-2013, 06:48 AM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker McDonald View Post
Of course it could change, and I honestly think it will. Lundqvist has been on a tear recently. If he could keep it up until the season's end, he could become the favorite.

And I'm not making it sound like he's doing much better than Lundqvist. You're the one who's making it seem like Lundqvist should get some extra credit because he's been elite for much longer, when that has nothing to do with the award.

Who do you think is having a better year: Lundqvist or Bobrovsky?
Who do you think is having the better season, Montreal or Boston?

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04-15-2013, 06:52 AM
  #154
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Also, it SHOULDN'T work that way but even last year there were people that thought that Hank was helped by being a known quality over Quick. And Quick is Brodeur when it comes to longevity compared to Bob. I just think it's human nature to go for Lundqvist, but that's just a guess.

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04-15-2013, 06:52 AM
  #155
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Boston IMO

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04-15-2013, 06:53 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
Boston IMO
Are you answering my question? It was a rhetorical question to prove a point.

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04-15-2013, 09:14 AM
  #157
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Who do you think is having the better season, Montreal or Boston?
Uh, Montreal. What point does that help you prove?

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04-15-2013, 11:56 AM
  #158
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Uh, Montreal. What point does that help you prove?
Good point.

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Originally Posted by First Man In View Post
Boston IMO
WHAT!?

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Old
04-15-2013, 12:23 PM
  #159
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My thoughts on the Vezina, albeit this is a very fluid situation which changes day to day ...

Bobrovsky 852 saves 93.2%
Lundqvist 949 saves 92.8%
Niemi 958 saves 92.2%

Bob has the superior save percentage but both Lundqvist and Niemi have a much larger sample size. That's no small matter and really puts save percentage into better context; I do think save percentage is a great goalie stat but just having the slightly better number doesn't make you the automatic winner.

Bobrovsky 13 0/1GA - 8 2GA - 5 3GA - 5 4+GA
Lundqvist 11 0/1GA - 13 2GA - 8 3GA - 3 4+GA
Niemi 11 0/1GA - 11 2GA - 9 3GA - 6 4+GA

In my opinion if you get a shutout or 1GA your team has no excuse not to get you the win. In that regard Bob has clearly given his team every opportunity to win many times. At the same time I consider 2GA to be a reflection of consistency; 2 goals is below the NHL average and so the team should really back up a 2GA performance more often than not. What we see from that is that Niemi and Lundqvist have not been far behind Bob in regards to giving their team a chance. The fact that Lundqvist has been shelled (4+) less than the others is to me a mark of excellence, as he has been able to keep bad nights respectable whereas the other two have just had more bad nights. Based on those stats though, there is nothing which takes away from Bobrovsky, and with an already superior save percentage he's still in the lead.

If I had to award the Vezina today I'd give it to Bobrovsky. However, the Bluejackets have a tough schedule to finish with pretty much every game on the road; there is no telling what his numbers will be after game 48, nor is there any guarantee on the others. Hank gets to play against some of the league's weakest teams in this final stretch of games and it would not be unfair to speculate that he finishes with the highest save percentage, and another 1 or 2 shutouts. So, in summary, Bobrovsky for the Vezina right now, but Lundqvist in particular is a "live dog".

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04-15-2013, 12:33 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker McDonald View Post
Uh, Montreal. What point does that help you prove?
Montreal has 1 more point in the same amount of games played, with probably around a half dozen games left. Do you really get hung up on microscopic differences?

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04-15-2013, 12:36 PM
  #161
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I think Bobrovsky is a hair ahead of Lundqvist right now for the Vezina.

Not quite sure why everyone is bringing up how consistently great Lundqvist has been over the past 8 years. Why would that be a factor in a seasonal award?

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04-15-2013, 12:38 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I think Bobrovsky is a hair ahead of Lundqvist right now for the Vezina.

Not quite sure why everyone is bringing up how consistently great Lundqvist has been over the past 8 years. Why would that be a factor in a seasonal award?
We've seen countless times where, when there wasn't a *clear* favorite for the award, it gets given to the guy with the best reputation. Brodeur won at least one of his Vezinas that way. We see it a lot in the Norris voting too. That's not to detract from the winners, because a guy like Lidstrom was in the conversation every year that he won it. His reputation just gave him a little boost.

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04-15-2013, 12:39 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I think Bobrovsky is a hair ahead of Lundqvist right now for the Vezina.

Not quite sure why everyone is bringing up how consistently great Lundqvist has been over the past 8 years. Why would that be a factor in a seasonal award?
Because the belief is that it might influence the vote. GM's might be more inclined to pick the player of two in a toss-up because of familiarity and proof of consistency.


One of the reasons people think Henrik beat Quick by such a wide margin last year.

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04-15-2013, 12:42 PM
  #164
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Because the belief is that it might influence the vote. GM's might be more inclined to pick the player of two in a toss-up because of familiarity and proof of consistency.


One of the reasons people think Henrik beat Quick by such a wide margin last year.
Couldnt that same logic work in Bob's favor when GM's consider how bad Columbus has been for so long?

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04-15-2013, 12:43 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Because the belief is that it might influence the vote. GM's might be more inclined to pick the player of two in a toss-up because of familiarity and proof of consistency.


One of the reasons people think Henrik beat Quick by such a wide margin last year.
I think that Lundqvist's win % played a larger role in the Vezina last year than people realize. 0.629 vs 0.507 is a pretty significant difference.

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04-15-2013, 12:44 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Couldnt that same logic work in Bob's favor when GM's consider how bad Columbus has been for so long?
If it was most valuable goalie to his team, sure. The Vezina isn't the Hart Trophy of goaltenders.

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04-15-2013, 12:46 PM
  #167
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Both solid points. I'm not saying its proven, but that is the theory. Some GMs will look at stats and pick, others might raise an eyebrow before voting for a guy who was under .900 last season.

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04-15-2013, 12:49 PM
  #168
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Both solid points. I'm not saying its proven, but that is the theory. Some GMs will look at stats and pick, others might raise an eyebrow before voting for a guy who was under .900 last season.
Exactly. You wonder what factor the shortened season will play in this as well. Bob has great stats... for a 32 game sample size. The exact wording is that the award goes to the goalie "adjudged to be the best at this position." There might be some doubt that Bob is the best, simply because of the small sample. And while that small sample applies to all goaltenders, Lundqvist has at least proven that he's capable of it over a large sample.

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04-15-2013, 12:52 PM
  #169
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Eh, I think we're just searching for ways for Lundqvist to come out on top.

Whatever the case may be, I do agree that getting nominated multiple years in a row, as Lundqvist has done, is a greater accomplishment than winning it once.

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Old
04-15-2013, 01:03 PM
  #170
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Eh, I think we're just searching for ways for Lundqvist to come out on top. .
True, but I don't think we have a clear winner this year, so it makes it fun to speculate on what will happen.

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04-15-2013, 02:07 PM
  #171
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I don't believe a goalie from a non-playoff team has ever won the Vezina (since '81, anyway).

If CBJ doesn't make it, I doubt Bob will win.

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04-15-2013, 03:16 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Montreal has 1 more point in the same amount of games played, with probably around a half dozen games left. Do you really get hung up on microscopic differences?
Who do you think is having the better season: Montreal or Boston? Are you going to say Boston because Montreal isn't doing better enough? Montreal has been better than Boston nearly the entire season, just like how Bobrovsky has been having the better season since the season started.

I don't understand your logic. According to you, Montreal isn't having a better season than Boston because they are up by only one point. How the hell does that make sense?

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04-15-2013, 06:11 PM
  #173
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Quote:
In what was at one time considered to be a down season for G Henrik Lundqvist, he merely ranks fourth in the league with a .928 save percentage, his fourth straight season over .920. No other full-fledged starter has done it more than twice.

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Old
04-15-2013, 06:30 PM
  #174
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Saw that myself. Prompted me to look at some other goalies.

Roy never did it. Hasek had a run of 6 straight seasons (5 of those years he was over .930 ).

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04-15-2013, 09:04 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Parker McDonald View Post
Who do you think is having the better season: Montreal or Boston? Are you going to say Boston because Montreal isn't doing better enough? Montreal has been better than Boston nearly the entire season, just like how Bobrovsky has been having the better season since the season started.

I don't understand your logic. According to you, Montreal isn't having a better season than Boston because they are up by only one point. How the hell does that make sense?
I don't understand if you're just being difficult, trying really hard to prove a point, or seriously don't understand. There are about a half dozen games left, one team has a 1 point lead seems like an almost dead heat.

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