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Wild gets Jason Pominville, '14 4th for Larsson, Hackett 13' 1st + '14 2nd Part 2

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Old
04-15-2013, 10:05 AM
  #576
Jarick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildfish View Post
Pommer makes this a better team this year and for sure at least next year. That's a bad thing?
Did he make the team better?

Before trade: 21-13-2 (.611)
After trade: 1-3-1 (0.300)

Not better in reality. Better on paper maybe, but not better in real life.

What about his linemates:

Before trade:
Parise 31 pts in 36 games (0.861)
Koivu 33 pts in 36 games (0.917)

After trade:
Parise 2 pts in 5 games (0.400)
Koivu 0 pts in 5 games (0.000)

So neither his linemates nor his team has improved. Not better this year so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
I also think some Wild fans are undervaluing Jason Pominville. Maybe that's because he played out East, not sure....but you don't get a guy like him at his age, skill level, and contract status at the deadline for mere peanuts.
Honestly his age is not an asset IMO...not a lot of guys can maintain their scoring level in their 30's.

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04-15-2013, 10:12 AM
  #577
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Did he make the team better?

Before trade: 21-13-2 (.611)
After trade: 1-3-1 (0.300)
Jeez... IŽd at least give him next season to show us what he can do before bashing Poms and the trade to utter oblivion.

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04-15-2013, 10:21 AM
  #578
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Your saying in the time since we traded for Pominville we haven't been winning therefore our lineup is not stronger. Pretty weak argument.

Following your logic if we went out and picked up Raffi Torres and had won more games the past week our lineup would be stronger than it is currently.

And wow great sample size. 5 games please. We could easily have gone 3-2 in that same time frame.

The team is better it just isn't putting it all together sort of like what we saw in the beginning of the year. The wins will come if they keep playing like they have the past few games. We just need to win a good portion of the last 5 games so we can go into the playoffs on the upswing and just start rolling like we did in our win streak.

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04-15-2013, 10:58 AM
  #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Did he make the team better?

Before trade: 21-13-2 (.611)
After trade: 1-3-1 (0.300)

Not better in reality. Better on paper maybe, but not better in real life.

What about his linemates:

Before trade:
Parise 31 pts in 36 games (0.861)
Koivu 33 pts in 36 games (0.917)

After trade:
Parise 2 pts in 5 games (0.400)
Koivu 0 pts in 5 games (0.000)

So neither his linemates nor his team has improved. Not better this year so far.



Honestly his age is not an asset IMO...not a lot of guys can maintain their scoring level in their 30's.
5 games is MUCH too small of a sample size to judge this trade by...and he JUST turned 30, that is still within the wheelhouse of a player's prime years (24-34). Barring injury, there is no reason he couldn't continue to score at the same pace he has been for the next 3-5 seasons. IMO, that makes his age an asset. He's a proven veteran who can still produce at a high level for the foreseeable future.

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04-15-2013, 11:11 AM
  #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Did he make the team better?

Before trade: 21-13-2 (.611)
After trade: 1-3-1 (0.300)

Not better in reality. Better on paper maybe, but not better in real life.

What about his linemates:

Before trade:
Parise 31 pts in 36 games (0.861)
Koivu 33 pts in 36 games (0.917)

After trade:
Parise 2 pts in 5 games (0.400)
Koivu 0 pts in 5 games (0.000)

So neither his linemates nor his team has improved. Not better this year so far.



Honestly his age is not an asset IMO...not a lot of guys can maintain their scoring level in their 30's.
This is the failing of statistics.

Our team has not been playing well these last few games, but this is not Pominvilles fault.

I don't know how any reasonable person can look at what we have in Pominville, and not say that we are a better team. We did not lose a roster player to acquire him; all he did was bump someone down a line, and imo, rightfully so.

Our whole team hasn't played well. This is not on him.

With some practice with the team next year things will be better.

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04-15-2013, 11:41 AM
  #581
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You can argue all you want, but you can't argue with what I wrote: the team is not better than it was when the trade was made. If it were, they would be winning, not losing games.

No, I don't think it's Pominville's fault. And no, I don't think he made the team worse. But it's clearly not better.

There's an adjustment period when you add a new player, and it's going to take a good while for the player and team to adjust. Problem is, this is a short season. There's not enough time and practice days for the player to really fit in.

I think the Wild would have been much better off calling up Zucker two weeks ago to add secondary scoring.

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04-15-2013, 11:43 AM
  #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
You can argue all you want, but you can't argue with what I wrote: the team is not better than it was when the trade was made. If it were, they would be winning, not losing games.

No, I don't think it's Pominville's fault. And no, I don't think he made the team worse. But it's clearly not better.

There's an adjustment period when you add a new player, and it's going to take a good while for the player and team to adjust. Problem is, this is a short season. There's not enough time and practice days for the player to really fit in.

I think the Wild would have been much better off calling up Zucker two weeks ago to add secondary scoring.
Holy logical fallacies. Struggles have nothing to do with Pominville. So many factors are contributing to our struggles. Pominville has 4 points in 5 games with us while Koivu/parise have 2 points combined

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04-15-2013, 11:48 AM
  #583
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nah nah guys, it was deslauries in houston that made the wild worse

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04-15-2013, 11:48 AM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwInS1095 View Post
Holy logical fallacies. Struggles have nothing to do with Pominville. So many factors are contributing to our struggles. Pominville has 4 points in 5 games with us while Koivu/parise have 2 points combined
Agreed with this. But, the team should of scored 5-6 goals against Columbus, but Bobrovsky was just that good. If they bring that type of effort tonight against Calgary, they will win no problem.

Pominville is not the problem. Its just about finding the right line combinations right now, and the ones used last game worked pretty well (Minus, the top line without Coyle for the last 59:43 of the hockey game).

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04-15-2013, 11:53 AM
  #585
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All I'm saying is this was a move for next year, not this year. If the move was for this year, it sure as hell didn't work.

We have zero points from centers since the trade. Koivu, Granlund, Brodziak, and Konopka all goose eggs. Depth at center was a much larger concern than scoring from the right wing. Setoguchi needs a good center to keep him on the scoresheet and apparently the top line needs depth to keep producing as well.

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04-15-2013, 12:01 PM
  #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
All I'm saying is this was a move for next year, not this year. If the move was for this year, it sure as hell didn't work.

We have zero points from centers since the trade. Koivu, Granlund, Brodziak, and Konopka all goose eggs. Depth at center was a much larger concern than scoring from the right wing. Setoguchi needs a good center to keep him on the scoresheet and apparently the top line needs depth to keep producing as well.
If Coyle can play longer than 17 seconds, the top line will come around again. Once Cullen returns Seto should be able to turn it around. If you watched Seto when he got a few shifts with Parise and Koivu on Saturday, he played very well. So I do agree that he needs a good center to keep him on the scoresheet.

As for the Pominville move, I was not on board with it at first. But, after watching him play, I am convinced that this move will help us in the end.

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04-15-2013, 12:03 PM
  #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
All I'm saying is this was a move for next year, not this year. If the move was for this year, it sure as hell didn't work.

We have zero points from centers since the trade. Koivu, Granlund, Brodziak, and Konopka all goose eggs. Depth at center was a much larger concern than scoring from the right wing. Setoguchi needs a good center to keep him on the scoresheet and apparently the top line needs depth to keep producing as well.
I don't completely disgree with this.

I have wanted us to get a true, top line right wing for the last two years however. In fact, Pominville was even one on my wishlist

But I don't know that this was the year to do it, especially when we did pay a premium for him.

I am under the impression that Leopold was putting pressure on Fletch to make something happen however. No proof on this, just the signs, to me, point to that.

Especially after losing Cullen, we needed a little more guarantee for success than we had, especially if we would lose another top 6 forward.

Next year if we shore up our top 4 d we should actually be alright. I still have doubts about our coach's ability, but that's another matter.

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04-15-2013, 12:05 PM
  #588
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And I think Pominville would be an excellent fit for this team long-term, I just think at the deadline was the wrong time to do it. The Wild gave up too much. Either a 1st OR Larsson, not both. They could have made the upgrade in the summer and kept assets.

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04-15-2013, 12:15 PM
  #589
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The loss of Larsson makes me sad... I know it's not going to make or break the Wild really, but he was my favorite prospect.

I think Fletch was banking on having a lower first, but who knows now... Watch us win the lottery

Let's also keep in mind that there was a little bit of a bidding war for Pominville, we just won. He is exactly the type of player that fits for how Fletch wants to build the team though, so I can see that.

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04-15-2013, 12:23 PM
  #590
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For me it's, how do you re-stock the center depth for prospects? We are thin on centers. Especially with Granlund not being a sure thing. Larsson to me I really liked because in my eyes he was a safe #3 center with #2 upside.

Add in us being thin on defense as well...I mean paper thin after Dumba. You have Dumba, then Scandella...then that's about it.

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04-15-2013, 12:27 PM
  #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
For me it's, how do you re-stock the center depth for prospects? We are thin on centers. Especially with Granlund not being a sure thing. Larsson to me I really liked because in my eyes he was a safe #3 center with #2 upside.

Add in us being thin on defense as well...I mean paper thin after Dumba. You have Dumba, then Scandella...then that's about it.
I'd add Gunnarsson to that list as well. He's been really solid in SEL.

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04-15-2013, 12:31 PM
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Oh, forgot about him. Good call. Yeah I do really like him.

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04-15-2013, 12:51 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
All I'm saying is this was a move for next year, not this year. If the move was for this year, it sure as hell didn't work.
It's a move for both. And, lol @ saying it didn't work. You were already proven how wrong you are on that front. Stop trying to stir things up.

Quote:
We have zero points from centers since the trade. Koivu, Granlund, Brodziak, and Konopka all goose eggs. Depth at center was a much larger concern than scoring from the right wing. Setoguchi needs a good center to keep him on the scoresheet and apparently the top line needs depth to keep producing as well.
Yeah, so adding Pommer made the centers play bad. Yep. Right.... Yeah we look weak at center right now, thankfully, they have drafts


You're just rambling and repeating the same nonsense.


Last edited by Jarick: 04-15-2013 at 01:15 PM. Reason: proper quotes
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04-15-2013, 01:16 PM
  #594
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Honestly, if you can't figure out what I'm saying, don't bother responding.

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04-15-2013, 01:20 PM
  #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Did he make the team better?

Before trade: 21-13-2 (.611)
After trade: 1-3-1 (0.300)

Not better in reality. Better on paper maybe, but not better in real life.

What about his linemates:

Before trade:
Parise 31 pts in 36 games (0.861)
Koivu 33 pts in 36 games (0.917)

After trade:
Parise 2 pts in 5 games (0.400)
Koivu 0 pts in 5 games (0.000)

So neither his linemates nor his team has improved. Not better this year so far.



Honestly his age is not an asset IMO...not a lot of guys can maintain their scoring level in their 30's.

I mean its pretty silly to go and look at his line mates points on the board considering the hot goalies we've played and the fact they have NEVER played with him before??

How about his overall points (4) in 5 games with 14 shots in comparison to who he replaced on that line at the time

Coyle who has 6 goals 3 assists 9 points and 38 shots in 30 games almost exclusively on that line..

Pominville would have: 12 goals 12 assists 24 points and 84 shots in that same time frame

While I agree he didn't find chemistry instantly with Mikko and Zach..and we haven't been winning lately, I don't really think there can be an argument made that Pominville doesn't make this team better..thats kinda silly.

He fixes our RH shot on the PP problem, kills penalties and gives us secondary scoring that we needed to get us over the hump. Sure you can make the argument that since we've got him we have struggled but is that because of Pominville? I think that hot goalies plus injuries to Cullen and Heatley and a struggling blue line are the reasons. I can make the argument that without him playing as well as he has we would be 0-5 in those games.

Give Pommer time..I'm not sure anyone of our fans realizes how good he is. To put in perspective he had more points than Parise last year. And has scored 80 points in this league before..something the Wild has never dreamed of having a player capable of.

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04-15-2013, 01:21 PM
  #596
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
And I think Pominville would be an excellent fit for this team long-term, I just think at the deadline was the wrong time to do it. The Wild gave up too much. Either a 1st OR Larsson, not both. They could have made the upgrade in the summer and kept assets.
You ware WAY underrating Pominville as a player. There is no way the Sabres would give him up for that.

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04-15-2013, 01:25 PM
  #597
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You ware WAY underrating Pominville as a player. There is no way the Sabres would give him up for that.
Hackett + 2nd + Larsson/1st?

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04-15-2013, 01:27 PM
  #598
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
You can argue all you want, but you can't argue with what I wrote: the team is not better than it was when the trade was made. If it were, they would be winning, not losing games.

No, I don't think it's Pominville's fault. And no, I don't think he made the team worse. But it's clearly not better.

There's an adjustment period when you add a new player, and it's going to take a good while for the player and team to adjust. Problem is, this is a short season. There's not enough time and practice days for the player to really fit in.

I think the Wild would have been much better off calling up Zucker two weeks ago to add secondary scoring.
Logical points..but I respectfully disagree with this.

Even while we were winning, overall throughout the season we haven't been an offensive juggernaut..we have been pretty middle of the pack. Could agree more with calling up Zucker but him alone wasn't going to solve our problem of trying to get into upper tier of Western conference in terms of forward depth and scoring. Adding Pominville just brings us up that much higher. He is probably the second best weapon on this team.

If we all of a sudden go on a run here with Cullen back, and the weak schedule we having coming up..2 games against Calgary, Edmonton and Colorado to finish the season..would you change your mind??

IMO, the trade happened and people pinned this losing streak on the trade..when in reality the losing streak is a result of Cullen and Heatley going down, which gives us one good line..Brodziak and Clutterbuck struggling and the defense struggling.

You can't win in the NHL with one line...adding Pominville now if we throw Coyle back on the top line gives us 2 lines that can score. Add Zucker and maybe we have 3..which makes us elite again.

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04-15-2013, 01:27 PM
  #599
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Hackett + 2nd + Larsson/1st?
Hard to say, although I have to believe that the 1st and Larsson were not negotiable.

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04-15-2013, 01:38 PM
  #600
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We have two now. And they are still relatively unknown prospects. Hackett would have made a nice backup next year and this. Around the league Hackett was still seen as a superior prospect to Kuemper.
I can tell you that with the exception of fans, this was absolutely not the case.

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