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** Official 2013 Fire Sacco Thread: Part Deux **

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Old
04-14-2013, 03:47 PM
  #276
Nihiliste
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
O'Byrne is +4 with 2 points in 3 games with Toronto, it's amazing what a competent coach can do.
Small sample size/post trade boost. If he carries that type of stat line to the end of the season then I might take notice.

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04-14-2013, 04:08 PM
  #277
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Small sample size/post trade boost. If he carries that type of stat line to the end of the season then I might take notice.
Of course, but that's a pretty large difference in his quality of play very quickly. We'll see, but I have a feeling with watching everything else that's been done by this coaching staff, that it's just another indicator of their (Specifically Sacco's) failures.

Sacco just does not seem to have much creativity offensively or defensively. His coaching style and the way he pushes this team to play is more indicative of his style of play while in the NHL, and that's simplicity to the tune of dump and chase, cycle and more cycle.

Our team is built for a future somewhere between LA and Chicago, we're not as heavy as LA, but we are as fast and heavier than Chicago. Especially if we can upgrade a couple of our pylons on the back end. We need a coach who can bring at least some creativity in the offensive zone to better use our faster more skilled forwards, as well as some ability to coach the defensive side of the game.

The one thing he did on the power play for zone entry is just a copy of what Detroit has been doing for a long while. While I like it, Sacco gets limited credit from me there.

I like the idea of Guy Boucher, I think he was let go too early. That teams major problem has been goal-tending, and when they had good goal-tending from Roloson. They went pretty deep in the play-offs.

I'm not exactly a fan of the 1-3-1 trap, but at least he did something creative to help the team. As frustrating as that system was to watch, I wouldn't say Tampa was a team considered to be boring to watch while he was coaching there either.

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04-14-2013, 04:24 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Uh there are some serious differences...

McGinn, Downie, and Mitchell all got larger roles, as did O'Byrne after coming over from Montreal. O'Byrne isn't getting any more or less ice time. The biggest difference is a new coach and system.

Nice try though
There was a reason why O'Byrne was a healthy scracth for Montreal, and Sacco and his coaching staff managed to make him look like a decent NHL defenseman, at one point last year he looked like a top 4.

You are using a 3 game sample size as another prove that Sacco sucks, and that is just ridiculous. And BTW he is getting 2 less minutes there.

But logics only apply here if we are attempting to bash Sacco, i get it.

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04-14-2013, 04:36 PM
  #279
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I like the idea of Guy Boucher, I think he was let go too early. That teams major problem has been goal-tending, and when they had good goal-tending from Roloson. They went pretty deep in the play-offs.

I'm not exactly a fan of the 1-3-1 trap, but at least he did something creative to help the team. As frustrating as that system was to watch, I wouldn't say Tampa was a team considered to be boring to watch while he was coaching there either.
Players were tuning him out. There was no choice. McKenzie reported that Stevie wanted to keep him until offseason and the re-evaluate but the situation was rolling too fast.

He didn't use that 1-3-1 trap. Not this year anyway and not much of the last year.

After that Philadelphia incident, Yzerman went to apologize for Holmgren about it.. I'm not totally sure but I think they didn't use that trap too much after that. Not to that extent.

There were lot of defensive breakdowns under Boucher this year.. Some could be attributed to roster though.

I still think Boucher is a good coach and learned from that experience. He'd be my number 2 guy, behind Dallas Eakins.

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04-14-2013, 05:45 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
There was a reason why O'Byrne was a healthy scracth for Montreal, and Sacco and his coaching staff managed to make him look like a decent NHL defenseman, at one point last year he looked like a top 4.

You are using a 3 game sample size as another prove that Sacco sucks, and that is just ridiculous. And BTW he is getting 2 less minutes there.

But logics only apply here if we are attempting to bash Sacco, i get it.
I think your taking my point far beyond the intent in order to get into an argument. Does this comment below look like I am stating some sort of fact that it's Sacco's coaching?

Notice the "We'll see" and "I have a feeling"? Are you capable of reading into the tone of a conversation or post? I'm spit-balling the possible link, not trying to state that I know for a fact it has to do with Sacco's ability to coach. I even mentioned in another post that it was a small sample size, but thank you for pointing that out.

You need to take a step back before calling out someones use of logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Of course, but that's a pretty large difference in his quality of play very quickly. We'll see, but I have a feeling with watching everything else that's been done by this coaching staff, that it's just another indicator of their (Specifically Sacco's) failures.

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04-14-2013, 05:48 PM
  #281
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Players were tuning him out. There was no choice. McKenzie reported that Stevie wanted to keep him until offseason and the re-evaluate but the situation was rolling too fast.

He didn't use that 1-3-1 trap. Not this year anyway and not much of the last year.

After that Philadelphia incident, Yzerman went to apologize for Holmgren about it.. I'm not totally sure but I think they didn't use that trap too much after that. Not to that extent.

There were lot of defensive breakdowns under Boucher this year.. Some could be attributed to roster though.

I still think Boucher is a good coach and learned from that experience. He'd be my number 2 guy, behind Dallas Eakins.
The interesting factor for me is that they didn't see any sort of a significant boost after the coaching change either. They won a couple games after but have been just as inconsistent with their on ice effort. (I'm just talking effort level, and motivation here not that they necessarily should be winning every game.) There has been a couple game stories already about the teams effort levels post coaching change.

Edit: It's going to suck if the same thing happens after Sacco leaves, but with Tampa their continued up and down efforts could be an indication that the Boucher wasn't the issue. However there as been plenty of coaches who have been tuned out, and had success with other teams. Sutter, Hitch, and Boudreau come to mind.


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04-14-2013, 06:43 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
I think your taking my point far beyond the intent in order to get into an argument. Does this comment below look like I am stating some sort of fact that it's Sacco's coaching?

Notice the "We'll see" and "I have a feeling"? Are you capable of reading into the tone of a conversation or post? I'm spit-balling the possible link, not trying to state that I know for a fact it has to do with Sacco's ability to coach. I even mentioned in another post that it was a small sample size, but thank you for pointing that out.

You need to take a step back before calling out someones use of logic.
I'm not trying to get into an argument at all, i was just replying to the post where you wrote "it's a good indicator of how bad our coach is when one of our worst defenders shows that much improvement that quickly after being traded." then you wrote "The biggest difference is a new coach and system."

Those were the posts i was replying to.

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04-14-2013, 07:11 PM
  #283
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I don't remember saying that the coach needed to constantly motivate the team to perform, but establishing the expectation for a consistent level of effort and accountability from the entire would make that unnecessary anyway. There is a middle ground you know.
I remember him doing exactly that when he first became the coach. However, I also realize he has to do with the players given him by the GM. As much as it pains me to say this...I really don't think we'd be much better off "THIS SEASON" with any other coach. The team is just too weak. I don't think this should save Sacco. I do believe another coach should be given a chance but I'm not convinced the idea of these three centers carrying a bunch of 2nd/3rd line wingers is a recipe to a stanley cup contender. While still fully behind a change for the coach, I'm not optimistic a new one will do any better. As much as some would like to ridicule a winning culture I still think it is important and not something that the coach can deliver without help and support from the President down....Pretty sure that is why Q left. He didn't think he was going to get the support needed to win and didn't want his name to be damaged for being a company man.

At this point, I feel like changing coaches is about as effective as putting on your cleanest dirty shirt.

Sure it's not something seen in a couple of days but lets be honest...it's still dirty....it still stinks and it probably won't make much of a difference.

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Old
04-14-2013, 07:27 PM
  #284
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I remember him doing exactly that when he first became the coach. However, I also realize he has to do with the players given him by the GM. As much as it pains me to say this...I really don't think we'd be much better off "THIS SEASON" with any other coach. The team is just too weak. I don't think this should save Sacco. I do believe another coach should be given a chance but I'm not convinced the idea of these three centers carrying a bunch of 2nd/3rd line wingers is a recipe to a stanley cup contender. While still fully behind a change for the coach, I'm not optimistic a new one will do any better. As much as some would like to ridicule a winning culture I still think it is important and not something that the coach can deliver without help and support from the President down....Pretty sure that is why Q left. He didn't think he was going to get the support needed to win and didn't want his name to be damaged for being a company man.

At this point, I feel like changing coaches is about as effective as putting on your cleanest dirty shirt.

Sure it's not something seen in a couple of days but lets be honest...it's still dirty....it still stinks and it probably won't make much of a difference.
I get what your saying, but there are plenty of teams that have benefited greatly from coaching changes. St. Louis, LA, and Anaheim come to mind the most as teams who went from having some serious issues to very good teams after changing coaches. Montreal could be another one, look where they finished last year. They changed out their GM and Coach...

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04-14-2013, 07:29 PM
  #285
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If Sacco is retained, I hope Gwoz is brought into the mix to take over for Quinn. And then he could take over as HC once Sacco is relieved.

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04-14-2013, 07:38 PM
  #286
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If Sacco is retained, I hope Gwoz is brought into the mix to take over for Quinn. And then he could take over as HC once Sacco is relieved.
I hope none of this happens.

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04-14-2013, 07:43 PM
  #287
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I get what your saying, but there are plenty of teams that have benefited greatly from coaching changes. St. Louis, LA, and Anaheim come to mind the most as teams who went from having some serious issues to very good teams after changing coaches. Montreal could be another one, look where they finished last year. They changed out their GM and Coach...
It's a lot easier to fire one coach than 22 players and if you're a GM the answer is pretty easy right? Fire the coach...that's why they say GM's get two coaches. Problem is this GM has had his coach and also resigned him...that's his two. I'd love to say it's time to clean house but the guy at the top (PL) would be the one making the call. Not a fan of that. I think after 2 GMs he needs to go as well and allow a new president to make the hires.

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04-14-2013, 07:50 PM
  #288
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I hope none of this happens.
Somebody else in mind? Tim Army perhaps?

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04-14-2013, 07:53 PM
  #289
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Somebody else in mind? Tim Army perhaps?
Why not? It'll give us a good chance of getting either Ekblad or Nylander in next years draft.

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04-14-2013, 07:55 PM
  #290
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You're thinking too short term, Sherman has patience. Looking forward to our 2017 draft selection.

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04-14-2013, 11:09 PM
  #291
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Sacco will be extended at the end of the next year to get us Mcdavid and then promptly fired after the 2015 draft. Clearly Sherman's master plan all along.

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04-15-2013, 11:10 AM
  #292
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There is an article on denverpost suggesting the Avs go with Sakic as GM and George Gwozdecky as coach.

I couldn't agree more, specially Gwozdecky as the coach. This guy could be a great coach for the Avs.

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04-15-2013, 11:13 AM
  #293
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There is an article on denverpost suggesting the Avs go with Sakic as GM and George Gwozdecky as coach.

I couldn't agree more, specially Gwozdecky as the coach. This guy could be a great coach for the Avs.
Good ole Woody Paige... great football writer, not so good with hockey. He just knows names, he doesn't understand the sport.

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04-15-2013, 11:18 AM
  #294
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Good ole Woody Paige... great football writer, not so good with hockey. He just knows names, he doesn't understand the sport.
Well, i don't know about Sakic as the GM, but i've said it many times that i think Gwozdecky would be a good coach in the NHL, and the Avs should try to get him someday.

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04-15-2013, 11:25 AM
  #295
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Well, i don't know about Sakic as the GM, but i've said it many times that i think Gwozdecky would be a good coach in the NHL, and the Avs should try to get him someday.
I'm not against either being in those positions. Paige just basically said because Sakic and Gwoz have been here so long they should be the ones put into the GM and coach spot. The logic is all wrong there.

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04-15-2013, 11:40 AM
  #296
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Sakic has no management track record, let alone a successful one - oh wait, that makes him the perfect Pierre Lacroix hire.

I wouldn't mind a guy like Gwozdecky as an assistant but I want a head coach with NHL experience.

Look at what Carlyle is doing in Toronto a lot of players who were previously written off.

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04-15-2013, 01:47 PM
  #297
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The interesting factor for me is that they didn't see any sort of a significant boost after the coaching change either. They won a couple games after but have been just as inconsistent with their on ice effort. (I'm just talking effort level, and motivation here not that they necessarily should be winning every game.) There has been a couple game stories already about the teams effort levels post coaching change.

Edit: It's going to suck if the same thing happens after Sacco leaves, but with Tampa their continued up and down efforts could be an indication that the Boucher wasn't the issue. However there as been plenty of coaches who have been tuned out, and had success with other teams. Sutter, Hitch, and Boudreau come to mind.
Coaches get tuned out. Sooner or later. It happens even to the best of them.

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04-15-2013, 03:47 PM
  #298
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Kevin Allen ‏@ByKevinAllen 2m
Colorado's Joe Sacco will be named USA's coach for the upcoming World Championships

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04-15-2013, 04:04 PM
  #299
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O'Byrne is +4 with 2 points in 3 games with Toronto, it's amazing what a competent coach can do.
So you think RoB is a potential Norris candidate then right?

Sick of people acting like it's Sacco holding guys back. It was Sacco holding back Gally, KQ, and Duchene last year right? Not the players. Sacco was fine as coach last year yet you all still moaned on HF Boards. He has lost the locker room now yeah, but what coach wouldn't with this crap team?

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04-15-2013, 04:23 PM
  #300
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Kevin Allen ‏@ByKevinAllen 2m
Colorado's Joe Sacco will be named USA's coach for the upcoming World Championships
Maybe he can move there permanently. And by that I mean stay inside his house and not coach any hockey until all the important games are done and no ones paying any attention.

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