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Jim Coleman Conference Prelim Round - Quebec Nordiques vs. Philadelphia Firebirds

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04-15-2013, 05:56 AM
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Jim Coleman Conference Prelim Round - Quebec Nordiques vs. Philadelphia Firebirds

All-Time Draft #7 Division Winner and Quarter Finalist
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All-Time Draft #13 (2010) Division Runner-Up
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All-Time Draft #15 (2012)


Les Nordiques de Québec

(1972-1995)

General Manager: DaveG & EagleBelfour
Head Coach: Peter Laviolette
Assistant Coach: Father David Bauer

Richard Martin - Mark Messier - Bill Cook
Sid Smith - Eric Lindros - Didier Pitre
Alf Smith - Fred Stanfield - Gordie Drillon
Mel Bridgman - Michal Handzus - Stan Smyl
Art Chapman
Orland Kurtenbach

Jack Stewart - Babe Siebert
Frantisek Pospisil - Leo Boivin
František Tikal - Ron Greschner
Gilles Marotte

Tom Barrasso
Eddie Giacomin


Powerplay:
Mark Messier - Gordie Drillon - Bill Cook
Babe Siebert - Didier Pitre

Richard Martin - Sid Smith - Eric Lindros
Fred Stanfield - Frantisek Pospisil

Penalty Kill:
Mark Messier - Michal Handzus
Jack Stewart - Frantisek Pospisil

Babe Siebert - Mel Bridgman
Leo Boivin - Frantisek Tikal

vs.

Philadelphia Firebirds



Updated Roster



Coach: John Tortorella

Tommy Phillips - Bryan Trottier (C) - Teemu Selänne
Kent Nilsson - Pat Lafontaine - Zigmund Palffy
Esa Tikkanen - Eric Staal - Owen Nolan
Mike McPhee - Bobby Holik - Sami Kapanen
--------------- - Dennis Maruk - Anders Hedberg

Börje Salming (A) - Jacques Laperriere
Rob Ramage - Kimmo Timonen (A)
Ken Daneyko - Brian Rafalski
Goldie Prodger - Pavel Kubina

Jiri Holecek
Riley Hern


Penalty Kill

1st unit

Esa Tikkanen - Sami Kapanen
Borje Salming - Ken Daneyko

2nd unit
Bryan Trottier - Owen Nolan
Jacques Laperriere - Rob Ramage


Powerplay

1st unit

Tommy Phillips - Bryan Trottier - Pat LaFontaine
Brian Rafalski - Jacques Laperriere

2nd Unit

Owen Nolan
Teemu Selanne Kent Nilsson -
Kimmo Timonen- Borje Salming

Shutdown line

Esa Tikkanen - Bobby Holik - Owen Nolan
Borje Salming - Ken Daneyko



Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 04-16-2013 at 11:26 PM.
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04-15-2013, 09:18 AM
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- The Québec Nordiques feels very confident matching their first offensive line against Philadelphia's first line. Bryan Trottier vs. Mark Messier should a pleasure to watch, and although Tommy Phillips a fantastic two-way player, we believe he will have difficulty containing the offensive dynamo and tower of strength that is Bill Cook. Richard Martin have the speed and decent defensive abilities to watch Teemu Selanne, although we concede the clear advantage to the Firebirds.

- If we go line vs. line (which the Québec Nordiques will mostly try to do, although we don't mind many matchups), we believe Lafontaine will be overwhelm by another tower of strength and sheer force of nature in Eric Lindros. We believe the underwhelming offense of the Firebirds second line will be in trouble against a great offensive second line, who can hit you hard on the wall or hit you hard by scoring goals.

- Again, we believe the Firebirds third offensive line will be overwhelm by the aggressiveness of Alf Smith and the speed and tremendous goalscoring abilities of Gordie Drillon. We don't see anyone on this line that can really stop our third line for a full 7-games series.

- The Firebirds do have the better first pairing of defenceman, one that will have his hands full trying to contain Mark Messier & Bill Cook. The second pairing is underwhelming, and Brian Rafalski will be in a tough position, trying to contain Eric Lindros or getting the puck away from the big Didier Pitre. The master of the tip-in, Sid Smith, should have an easy life doing what he do best in front of the net.

- In between the pipes, Jiri Holecek holds a decent edge on Tom Barrasso, but we believe will have to play a perfect series if he wants his team to stand a chance.

Overwhelm on many front, some of the softer forwards of the Firebirds will either cave, having to face Messier, Cook, Lindros, A.Smith, J.Stewart, B.Siebert, Pospisil, Boivin etc ... at every moment during the game, or will take misconduct penalties by holding, grabbing, clutching the bigger & stronger opponent, trying to stop them. The Nordiques powerplay, who boost two terrific unit, will also pound on that front.

We believe the only way for the Firebirds to win 4 of the 7 games against the brutal offensive machine that is the Québec Nordiques will be to win the battle of the first line (Phillips-Trottier-Selanne-Salming-Laperriere vs. Martin-Messier-Cook-Stewart-Siebert) on a regular basis, which we believe won't happen. If the Philadelphia Firebirds cannot win this battle, their secondary scoring is underwhelming against 'Les Nordiques' secondary scoring, and won't hold for a full series.

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04-15-2013, 04:10 PM
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Best of luck to DaveG and EagleBelfour. I will have a preliminary argument ready along woth our updated roster when I am finished at work.

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04-15-2013, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
- The Québec Nordiques feels very confident matching their first offensive line against Philadelphia's first line. Bryan Trottier vs. Mark Messier should a pleasure to watch, and although Tommy Phillips a fantastic two-way player, we believe he will have difficulty containing the offensive dynamo and tower of strength that is Bill Cook. Richard Martin have the speed and decent defensive abilities to watch Teemu Selanne, although we concede the clear advantage to the Firebirds.
Am I missing something about Richard Martin? If he's decent defensively, then how many players aren't? I mean, Martin's not a known cherrypicker like some other guys, but what makes him better defensively than Selanne?

Messier vs Trottier is an awesome matchup - I'm sure they had some epic battles in real life.

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04-16-2013, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Am I missing something about Richard Martin? If he's decent defensively, then how many players aren't? I mean, Martin's not a known cherrypicker like some other guys, but what makes him better defensively than Selanne?

Messier vs Trottier is an awesome matchup - I'm sure they had some epic battles in real life.
He's acceptable defensively. He's someone that will work hard on both side of the ice. More of a one-way player early in his career, Martin works his way to be an efficient two-way player by the late 1970's. In the ATD, he won't hurt you. He's got the speed and the will to play with Teemu Selanne. I believe he was, overall, a decent defensive player in the NHL, which would make him acceptable in the ATD I guess. Bad wording on my part, but the explanation is what I think of him.

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04-16-2013, 11:08 PM
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Updated Roster



Coach: John Tortorella

Tommy Phillips - Bryan Trottier (C) - Teemu Selänne
Kent Nilsson - Pat Lafontaine - Zigmund Palffy
Esa Tikkanen - Eric Staal - Owen Nolan
Mike McPhee - Bobby Holik - Sami Kapanen
--------------- - Dennis Maruk - Anders Hedberg

Börje Salming (A) - Jacques Laperriere
Rob Ramage - Kimmo Timonen (A)
Ken Daneyko - Brian Rafalski
Goldie Prodger - Pavel Kubina

Jiri Holecek
Riley Hern


Penalty Kill

1st unit

Esa Tikkanen - Sami Kapanen
Borje Salming - Ken Daneyko

2nd unit
Bryan Trottier - Owen Nolan
Jacques Laperriere - Rob Ramage


Powerplay

1st unit

Tommy Phillips - Bryan Trottier - Pat LaFontaine
Brian Rafalski - Jacques Laperriere

2nd Unit

Owen Nolan
Teemu Selanne Kent Nilsson -
Kimmo Timonen- Borje Salming

Shutdown line

Esa Tikkanen - Bobby Holik - Owen Nolan
Borje Salming - Ken Daneyko

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04-16-2013, 11:24 PM
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First glance I think we have a small but clear advantage in goal. As Billy said in the assassinations Holecek should be looked at closer to Tretiak. Quebec has the advantage in physicality but we are no slouches either with Holik, Nolan, McPhee, Daneyko and Ramage. Our key to winning is going to speed our speed and finesse. LaFontaine, Selanne, Nilsson and Palffy are all gonna have of avoid the physical play of Quebec and out skate them.

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04-17-2013, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
First glance I think we have a small but clear advantage in goal. As Billy said in the assassinations Holecek should be looked at closer to Tretiak. Quebec has the advantage in physicality but we are no slouches either with Holik, Nolan, McPhee, Daneyko and Ramage. Our key to winning is going to speed our speed and finesse. LaFontaine, Selanne, Nilsson and Palffy are all gonna have of avoid the physical play of Quebec and out skate them.
- No question that the Firebirds have a small, but clear advantage in goal. It's really hard to place Jiri Holecek on a All-Time list, but his international success in the 1970s is quite impressive. As I wrote in my initial thought, he's one of the key of the Firebirds' success, and will need to play incredible series if Philadelphia wanna prevail.

- Quebec do own, IMO, a very definitive edge in physically. Of all the players you mention, you have a 4th liner, two 3rd liner, a 2nd & a 3rd pairing defenceman. Those are not core players. It's ironic that you forgot your two most dangerous physical player, Esa Tikkanen, the excellent pest, and Bryan Trottier, the only 'core' players the Nordiques should fear due to his physicality.

On the other hand, Mark Messier, Eric Lindros & Bill Cook are the three most physical player of this series, and hold major part of the Nordiques' success. Didier Pitre is not physical, but strong and very difficult to push around. Alf Smith is a pest equivalent to Esa Tikkanen, but with a better offensive resume. If we're naming 4th liners, Mel Bridgman and Stan Smyl are exciting energy players.

Although the sheer physicality of our forwards is impressive, the defence might be even more physical: Jack Stewart and Babe Siebert are punishing hitters and very physical defenceman. The second pairing is as much, or even more physical, with the brutal Frantisek Pospisil and one of the better bodychecker of All-Time with Leo Boivin. Frantisek Tikal is anothe physical defenceman on this team.

The Quebec Nordiques hold a very clear advantage in physicality, something that the modest & soft players of the Firebirds, players like Kent Nilsson, Pat Lafontaine, Zigmund Palffy & Brian Rafalski, will have difficulty to deal with.

- Although the Firebirds do own great speed all over the lineup, the Nordiques also have boatload of speed in his lineup. The entire top-6 are players with either tremendous wheels or strength-ful strides. Martin - Pitre - Smith were speed merchant. Messier & Cook were always great, powerful skaters. Eric Lindros might be the least 'adequate skaters of the 6, but still above average, with his long strides and graceful for his size. Gordie Drillon was a great skater, so are players like Bridgman and Smyl.

Speed, although a quality of the Firebirds, is also a quality for the Quebec Nordiques, and I don't see the Firebirds holding an edge in this regard. As you said: ''LaFontaine, Selanne, Nilsson and Palffy are all gonna have of avoid the physical play of Quebec and out skate them.'', but I don't see those guys outskating Mark Messier, Bill Cook & Eric Lindros much often, let alone the other 'less physical' player on the top-6 in Rick Martin, Sid Smith & Didier Pitre

- I see the Firebirds have made some slight adjustement. Esa Tikkanen against Gordie Drillon should make it much tougher for the Quebec star. However, Kent Nilsson vs. Didier Pitre is a complete mismatch. Didier Pitre is faster & much stronger, and much better away from the puck . I don't see the whole unit of Nilsson-Lafontaine-Palffy-Ramage-Timonen holding a chance to stop the unit of Smith-Lindros-Pitre-Pospisil-Boivin over a 7-game matchup. The Nordiques 2nd unit is too strong, too powerful and the forwards can definitely keep up with the speed of the Firebirds trio, the line main strength. I think it's a wise choice to move Brian Rafalski on the third unit, but I'm unsure Kimmo Timonen, the 5'9'' 'brainiack' defenceman is the solution to Eric Lindros & Didier Pitre.

- BTW, just how much of a LW Kent Nilsson is? I always viewed him as a centre, but I'm not verse enough to make a judgement on him.

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04-17-2013, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
- BTW, just how much of a LW Kent Nilsson is? I always viewed him as a centre, but I'm not verse enough to make a judgement on him.
He was as efficient on LW as any other position. Was used as a LW (Steen were the center and Loob RW) in the 84 CC. Shared second place in points behind Gretzky.

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04-17-2013, 09:46 AM
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He was as efficient on LW as any other position. Was used as a LW (Steen were the center and Loob RW) in the 84 CC. Shared second place in points behind Gretzky.
That's very impressive. How many years did he play LW compare to C?

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04-19-2013, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
- No question that the Firebirds have a small, but clear advantage in goal. It's really hard to place Jiri Holecek on a All-Time list, but his international success in the 1970s is quite impressive. As I wrote in my initial thought, he's one of the key of the Firebirds' success, and will need to play incredible series if Philadelphia wanna prevail.
Holecek is probably the most important person in this series.

Quote:
- Quebec do own, IMO, a very definitive edge in physically. Of all the players you mention, you have a 4th liner, two 3rd liner, a 2nd & a 3rd pairing defenceman. Those are not core players. It's ironic that you forgot your two most dangerous physical player, Esa Tikkanen, the excellent pest, and Bryan Trottier, the only 'core' players the Nordiques should fear due to his physicality.
Yeah completely forgot about Tikkanen. He's another key to this series. If he can get under Lindros and Messiers skin that could be a big advantage in getting power plays. Daneyko will be a factor on the penalty kill against top players but technically yeah still not a core player.
Quote:
On the other hand, Mark Messier, Eric Lindros & Bill Cook are the three most physical player of this series, and hold major part of the Nordiques' success. Didier Pitre is not physical, but strong and very difficult to push around. Alf Smith is a pest equivalent to Esa Tikkanen, but with a better offensive resume. If we're naming 4th liners, Mel Bridgman and Stan Smyl are exciting energy players.
Bridgman is awesome, no doubt on that. Lindros will be difficult to stop but he had a bad habit of keeping his head down and may b prone to getting hurt here going against hard hitters like Nolan and McPhee.

Quote:
The Quebec Nordiques hold a very clear advantage in physicality, something that the modest & soft players of the Firebirds, players like Kent Nilsson, Pat Lafontaine, Zigmund Palffy & Brian Rafalski, will have difficulty to deal with.
they might have difficulty but I don't think nearly as much as you may think. Nilsson was a big guy that was hard to knock off the puck. He may have had compete level concerns but on big stages Nilsson worked harder. I don't remember him really being scared of physical play. Same goes for Palffy. Even with his size he still battled hard. He was usually the best player on his team with not so great help. He wen against top d men in an era f big tough physical play and still put up points.
-
Quote:
Although the Firebirds do own great speed all over the lineup, the Nordiques also have boatload of speed in his lineup. The entire top-6 are players with either tremendous wheels or strength-ful strides. Martin - Pitre - Smith were speed merchant. Messier & Cook were always great, powerful skaters. Eric Lindros might be the least 'adequate skaters of the 6, but still above average, with his long strides and graceful for his size. Gordie Drillon was a great skater, so are players like Bridgman and Smyl.
I think our forwards speed can eat your defenses speed. They might have trouble trying to hit and rough up our forwards if they can't keep up with them.
Quote:
Speed, although a quality of the Firebirds, is also a quality for the Quebec Nordiques, and I don't see the Firebirds holding an edge in this regard. As you said: ''LaFontaine, Selanne, Nilsson and Palffy are all gonna have of avoid the physical play of Quebec and out skate them.'', but I don't see those guys outskating Mark Messier, Bill Cook & Eric Lindros much often, let alone the other 'less physical' player on the top-6 in Rick Martin, Sid Smith & Didier Pitre
yeah forwards vs forwards is pretty even in skating I think we probably have the fastest skater of both teams in Kapanen.
Quote:
- I see the Firebirds have made some slight adjustement. Esa Tikkanen against Gordie Drillon should make it much tougher for the Quebec star. However, Kent Nilsson vs. Didier Pitre is a complete mismatch. Didier Pitre is faster & much stronger, and much better away from the puck . I don't see the whole unit of Nilsson-Lafontaine-Palffy-Ramage-Timonen holding a chance to stop the unit of Smith-Lindros-Pitre-Pospisil-Boivin over a 7-game matchup. The Nordiques 2nd unit is too strong, too powerful and the forwards can definitely keep up with the speed of the Firebirds trio, the line main strength. I think it's a wise choice to move Brian Rafalski on the third unit, but I'm unsure Kimmo Timonen, the 5'9'' 'brainiack' defenceman is the solution to Eric Lindros & Didier Pitre.
I think that's underestimating Timonen. He plays well against big/physical players. His stick work is is specialty. He also always plays through pain fork blocking shots or taking hits.
Quote:
- BTW, just how much of a LW Kent Nilsson is? I always viewed him as a centre, but I'm not verse enough to make a judgement on him.
as Hobknobs said he played LW in the Canada cup. He also played wing at times with Edmonton. He played Right wing at times in his career as well. He'll play center on the Powerplay.

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04-23-2013, 03:06 PM
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Québec defeats Philadelphia in five games.

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04-23-2013, 11:31 PM
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Congrats to the Nordiques.

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