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Houston to Des Moines ?? Or Sioux Falls, SD? UPD: Iowa Wild approved

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Old
04-15-2013, 07:45 PM
  #76
GopherState
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post

Also, if the Wild own most of the Aeros, I'm surprised they haven't thought of moving them to Minnesota? With how popular hockey is in general there, you'd think an AHL would be a hit. Just across the stateline in North Dakota, there is a basically brand new arena in Fargo, the Scheels Arena, that seats 5,000 for hockey. Seems like a market that would do very well for hockey. There currently is a USHL team in Fargo, that the Wild would have to work around but I figure it would be successful.

Plus being the Baby Wild would sell much better in Minnesota (or might as well be Minnesota) than in Iowa or South Dakota I would think. Fargo even has an airport with direct connection to Minneapolis, so callups would be a breeze. It is even a 3 and a half hour drive from Fargo to Minneapolis.
The issues with placing an AHL team in Minnesota are competition and location. It's great that hockey of all levels is very popular in the state. The Wild are supported well and even the high school tournament sells out the X. However, that doesn't guarantee the AHL would be just as supported as those two.

I don't want to say history would repeat itself although the AHL wasn't successful during the short stretch where the Moose played in the St. Paul Civic Center following the North Stars' move to Dallas. Any AHL team in the Twin Cities (a hockey crazed market of 3 million) has to compete with the Wild, HS hockey and the University of Minnesota, which sells out a 10,000 seat arena at NHL prices. That's a lot of competition for dollars and doesn't even include 3 other pro teams and a major university.

They aren't alone. 60% of the state's population lives in the Twin Cities but the majority of the other large cities in Minnesota also have college hockey teams. Other leagues have been shut out of the state (most notably the USHL). With the amount of tradition involved with those teams, it's a tough sell for fans to bring in a minor league team.

(The lack of AHL buildings in the Upper Midwest makes it difficult to bid on NCAA Hockey regionals compared to the East, but that's a different story.)

So that leaves a metro area in a border state like Des Moines, Fargo or Sioux Falls as the "closest" AHL city. I know Fargo was mentioned as a spot. It may be just across the border and is a good hockey area (there are plenty of North Dakota fans) but it isn't Minnesota. There's a difference.

It's hard to say that a 3.5-5 hour drive is close - it is closer than Houston - but it's a long drive for fans who have other hockey options in addition to proximity to other AHL teams and major airports. Minnesota is a hockey state, not a state where Wild run king. As much as I'm sure the NHL team would like to increase their profile, minor league hockey is a tough sell in an area where HS and college hockey are king.

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04-15-2013, 07:50 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
The NHL has a 50 mile territory window. (IOW, 50 miles from city limit and any other team's 50 mile "spread" that intersects would require approval -- usually in the form of territory indemnification payment.)

I don't know that the AHL does.

Worcester and Springfield are awfully close. (Also Connecticut and Providence.)
I believe Dolgon (Syracuse) said he would not veto a team in Utica so yeah, there probably is a 50 mile rule.

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04-15-2013, 08:13 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
The issues with placing an AHL team in Minnesota are competition and location. It's great that hockey of all levels is very popular in the state. The Wild are supported well and even the high school tournament sells out the X. However, that doesn't guarantee the AHL would be just as supported as those two.

I don't want to say history would repeat itself although the AHL wasn't successful during the short stretch where the Moose played in the St. Paul Civic Center following the North Stars' move to Dallas. Any AHL team in the Twin Cities (a hockey crazed market of 3 million) has to compete with the Wild, HS hockey and the University of Minnesota, which sells out a 10,000 seat arena at NHL prices. That's a lot of competition for dollars and doesn't even include 3 other pro teams and a major university.

They aren't alone. 60% of the state's population lives in the Twin Cities but the majority of the other large cities in Minnesota also have college hockey teams. Other leagues have been shut out of the state (most notably the USHL). With the amount of tradition involved with those teams, it's a tough sell for fans to bring in a minor league team.

(The lack of AHL buildings in the Upper Midwest makes it difficult to bid on NCAA Hockey regionals compared to the East, but that's a different story.)

So that leaves a metro area in a border state like Des Moines, Fargo or Sioux Falls as the "closest" AHL city. I know Fargo was mentioned as a spot. It may be just across the border and is a good hockey area (there are plenty of North Dakota fans) but it isn't Minnesota. There's a difference.

It's hard to say that a 3.5-5 hour drive is close - it is closer than Houston - but it's a long drive for fans who have other hockey options in addition to proximity to other AHL teams and major airports. Minnesota is a hockey state, not a state where Wild run king. As much as I'm sure the NHL team would like to increase their profile, minor league hockey is a tough sell in an area where HS and college hockey are king.
Milwaukee has hosted NCAA finals hockey at 3 times at the Bradley Center in 1993, 1997 and 2006. Green Bay had regional games in 2006, 2011 & 12. Grand Rapids this year. Next year will be St. Paul (also 2012) and Cincinnati.

This jerk wants the finals on the East Coast or MSP!
http://www.bcinterruption.com/2012/3...college-hockey

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04-15-2013, 08:35 PM
  #79
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If the Wild get into Iowa, it could potentially expand their market. Iowa isn't huge, but it would be worth it to make sure Chicago doesn't seize it.

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04-15-2013, 08:39 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by adsfan View Post
Milwaukee has hosted NCAA finals hockey at 3 times at the Bradley Center in 1993, 1997 and 2006. Green Bay had regional games in 2006, 2011 & 12. Grand Rapids this year. Next year will be St. Paul (also 2012) and Cincinnati.

This jerk wants the finals on the East Coast or MSP!
http://www.bcinterruption.com/2012/3...college-hockey
Meant in general. The only options are the 3 cities named and the Target Center in Minneapolis (if that counts separately). It might be possibly 2 since Milwaukee hasn't hosted a regional in ages (not even sure if the Bradley Center is interested anymore). This was the first tournament since 2008 where the Twin Cities didn't host games in one way or another. Compared to New England, where there are a half-dozen mid-sized cities to rotate between, and NCAA trying to cut down on Olympic/campus sites, having half the options of a major college hockey area be in one city is pathetic.

But this is about the AHL and Houston moving.

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04-15-2013, 10:38 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Disengage View Post
I believe Dolgon (Syracuse) said he would not veto a team in Utica so yeah, there probably is a 50 mile rule.
Perhaps, but it could also be that Syracuse does not want the competition, regardless.

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04-16-2013, 01:07 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by IceCapsFanNL View Post
I'll throw a little information into the pot from the perspective of a St. John's fan.


I think butts in seats helps determine team profitability, but equally important is the average ticket price. The average ticket price at MileOne is between $25 and $30. This times the sellout crowds we have had so far would put the team near the top for gate revenue I think.

Similarly consessions factor into this as well. The team and city split the revenue from concessions, and prices are high.

Beer is $6, Hotdogs, fries, cokes are similarly high as well.

When I look at other teams websites they seem to have much lower ticket prices, and really cheap concessions.

Someone mentioned attendance as a percentage of capacity. I am not so sure that it is a huge factor with respwect to profitability, but it adds to the enjoyment of the games.
Percentage of capacity, more than anything, contributes to season ticket sales. That means getting money sooner, that means being ahead of bills instead of behind, perhaps it means money gaining interest as well.

Here's the thing: is that $25 to $30 a season ticket price?

Your description sounds like it's right in the wheel well of the Portland Winterhawks. I'd guess the average price sold is around $25 (including season seats), averaged almost 7,000 this season, beer's at $9. Problem is, how much of a cut does the NBA hosts get?

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04-16-2013, 02:07 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
The issues with placing an AHL team in Minnesota are competition and location. It's great that hockey of all levels is very popular in the state. The Wild are supported well and even the high school tournament sells out the X. However, that doesn't guarantee the AHL would be just as supported as those two.

I don't want to say history would repeat itself although the AHL wasn't successful during the short stretch where the Moose played in the St. Paul Civic Center following the North Stars' move to Dallas. Any AHL team in the Twin Cities (a hockey crazed market of 3 million) has to compete with the Wild, HS hockey and the University of Minnesota, which sells out a 10,000 seat arena at NHL prices. That's a lot of competition for dollars and doesn't even include 3 other pro teams and a major university.

They aren't alone. 60% of the state's population lives in the Twin Cities but the majority of the other large cities in Minnesota also have college hockey teams. Other leagues have been shut out of the state (most notably the USHL). With the amount of tradition involved with those teams, it's a tough sell for fans to bring in a minor league team.

(The lack of AHL buildings in the Upper Midwest makes it difficult to bid on NCAA Hockey regionals compared to the East, but that's a different story.)

So that leaves a metro area in a border state like Des Moines, Fargo or Sioux Falls as the "closest" AHL city. I know Fargo was mentioned as a spot. It may be just across the border and is a good hockey area (there are plenty of North Dakota fans) but it isn't Minnesota. There's a difference.

It's hard to say that a 3.5-5 hour drive is close - it is closer than Houston - but it's a long drive for fans who have other hockey options in addition to proximity to other AHL teams and major airports. Minnesota is a hockey state, not a state where Wild run king. As much as I'm sure the NHL team would like to increase their profile, minor league hockey is a tough sell in an area where HS and college hockey are king.
First, Moose were IHL, not AHL. Leagues were way different. Second, Moose did OK first year.

And as far as AHL arenas goes, really? Fieldhouses in the midwest are about the same size as some of those things they call arenas out east.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCSPounder View Post
Percentage of capacity, more than anything, contributes to season ticket sales. That means getting money sooner, that means being ahead of bills instead of behind, perhaps it means money gaining interest as well.

Here's the thing: is that $25 to $30 a season ticket price?

Your description sounds like it's right in the wheel well of the Portland Winterhawks. I'd guess the average price sold is around $25 (including season seats), averaged almost 7,000 this season, beer's at $9. Problem is, how much of a cut does the NBA hosts get?
Where do you come up with this stuff? Percent of capacity now contributes more than anything to season ticket sales. The Wolves have probably about 3,000 season tcikets sold since they never seem to drop below 3k for a game and there is virtually zero walk up or groups on a Wednesday.

Each arena deal is different and the variations are almost infinite.

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04-16-2013, 09:11 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
The NHL has a 50 mile territory window. (IOW, 50 miles from city limit and any other team's 50 mile "spread" that intersects would require approval -- usually in the form of territory indemnification payment.)

I don't know that the AHL does.

Worcester and Springfield are awfully close. (Also Connecticut and Providence.)
When the Springfield Indians became the Worcester IceCats in '94, and the Springfield Falcons came into existence, there was a 50-mile territory window. Worcester had to approve the new Springfield franchise (ironic, since they had just acquired the old Springfield franchise).

Also, I seem to recall that the Falcons had to approve the Hartford franchise.

I don't have links to confirm either situation - the first was too long ago, and for the second, I'm too lazy.

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04-16-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MM658 View Post
When the Springfield Indians became the Worcester IceCats in '94, and the Springfield Falcons came into existence, there was a 50-mile territory window. Worcester had to approve the new Springfield franchise (ironic, since they had just acquired the old Springfield franchise).

Also, I seem to recall that the Falcons had to approve the Hartford franchise.

I don't have links to confirm either situation - the first was too long ago, and for the second, I'm too lazy.
Didn't Providence have to approve Worcester since the two cities are within 50 miles of each other?

Worcester had to of also approve of Lowell too since they're within 50 miles.
Lowell had to of approve of Manchester since they were also within 50 miles.

So from 1992 when Providence came into existance:
1994 - Providence approves of Worcester
1994 - Worcester approves of Springfield
1997 - Springfield approves of Hartford
1998 - Worcester approves of Lowell
2001 - Hartford approves of Bridgeport
2002 - Lowell approves of Manchester
2006 - Springfield, Providence, and Lowell approves of Worcester

I think that's all of it.

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04-16-2013, 12:21 PM
  #86
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The AHL is a minor league. If someone thinks they can make a franchise vaible, there won't be any opposition, distance notwithstanding. There may be a rule in place, but it'd take an extraordinary circumstance for a move to be blocked IMO.

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04-16-2013, 12:35 PM
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The AHL is a minor league. If someone thinks they can make a franchise viable, there won't be any opposition, distance notwithstanding. There may be a rule in place, but it'd take an extraordinary circumstance for a move to be blocked IMO.
And anything that would lower another teams cost would probably not be frowned upon either.

And Des Moines is not within 50 miles from any AHL town.

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04-17-2013, 08:26 PM
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Source: An official announcement that the AHL Houston Aeros are moving to Des Moines to become the Iowa Wild is expected tomorrow afternoon.
http://twitter.com/ChadGraff/status/324672412748746752

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04-17-2013, 09:09 PM
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Russostrib 6:06pm via twitterfeed BLOG: Wild will officially seek approval to move AHL team to Iowa http://t.co/uXTQZCpseL


Sounds like a done deal, excepting (the probably rubber stamp) AHL BOG approval.

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04-17-2013, 10:08 PM
  #90
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Feel bad for Houston, but makes sense for Minnesota.

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04-18-2013, 04:12 PM
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AHL has approved #mnwild's request to relocate the Houston Aeros to Des Moines. Renamed Iowa Wild. Announcement soon per source
http://twitter.com/Russostrib/status/324976946238877696

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04-18-2013, 04:22 PM
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I figured they would be Iowa wild

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04-18-2013, 04:29 PM
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http://wild.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=666499

Now confirmed.

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04-18-2013, 04:57 PM
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Source: The Aeros were paying the Toyota Center $24k/game in rent. The Center wanted $42k/game next season. Wild will pay $10k/game in Iowa.
http://twitter.com/ChadGraff/status/324987477121175553

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04-18-2013, 05:03 PM
  #95
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Feel bad for Houston Fans, but this move really makes sense for the Wild.

So what league do you think Houston will be in next year or the year after? Back in the AHL or maybe the ECHL will pick em up.

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04-18-2013, 05:51 PM
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Feel bad for Houston Fans, but this move really makes sense for the Wild.

So what league do you think Houston will be in next year or the year after? Back in the AHL or maybe the ECHL will pick em up.
Sounds like none, nowhere to play but Toyota Center.

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04-18-2013, 06:18 PM
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I figured they would be Iowa wild
Great, another ahl team without it's own identity.

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04-18-2013, 06:45 PM
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Houston would easily be biggest city in North America without NHL/AHL team.

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04-18-2013, 06:56 PM
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Houston would easily be biggest city in North America without NHL/AHL team.
The highest level of ice hockey being played in Houston next season will be high school. Unless Les Alexander decides he wants to run that out of town, too.

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04-18-2013, 07:11 PM
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Great, another ahl team without it's own identity.
I agree, I don't like it when the AHL Franchise has the same name as there NHL Parent Club.

Some names I would of liked for this Iowa team

Iowa Ignition
Des Moines Mammoth

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