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Rumors & Proposals Thread Vol. 14 | Breaking Oilers: Krazy 8(th overall pick?)

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04-15-2013, 06:58 PM
  #351
Jimmi Jenkins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
No ... just no. To me this would signal this entire rebuild has been a giant failure, and a franchise without a star centerman is going nowhere.

RNH's rookie season blows away Taylor Hall's or Nail Yakupov's, at one point he was scoring at a rate comparable to Evgeni Malkin as a rookie. Yes he has had a sophomore slump (maybe playing with a bum shoulder) but to trade him ... ugh.

They can do something like that, sure ... but they won't be doing it with me as a fan.

To come out of 6 years or whatever of top 10 picks, three of them being no.1, and not having a no.1 center is freaking pathetic.
Call it like it was, he was on a Crosby pace during that season. Trading the Nuge, unless it's for a top-5 center in the world, you lose lose lose.

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Old
04-15-2013, 07:00 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
No, you don't do that.

You wait until they buy him out, if you want him back. No reason for the Oilers to do this.
Should mention that Gilbert is a UFA at the end of next season.

Also, Wild will buyout Heatley, not Gilbert.

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04-15-2013, 07:01 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
What no.1 d-man are you talking about specifically?

Trading one of the two IMO effectively makes the Oilers a 1 line offense going forward with limited finishing ability.

Unless Shea Weber is the d-man coming back, the Oilers lose that deal as I don't see any other no.1 d-men of big impact realistically being available.
I'm thinking about guys like McDonagh, Bogosian, Shattenkirk etc.

Having 3 high end wingers is overkill. Centers and dmen are far more important. It's like having 3 superstar receivers in football. Sure it's a nice luxury to have but most teams would rather invest in their offensive line and QB.

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04-15-2013, 07:01 PM
  #354
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With MacT in charge, I'm assuming Hemsky is a goner. Nothing to do with the past comments or whatever, but moreso with the fact Hemsky represents an excess of what we have.

I think Streit has been a lock to come here ever since he couldn't get stuff figured out with NYI. I know he asked for >$5.1M/yr there, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him sign here for less.

What intrigues me the most is who they are targeting that is 'lucic like'. It's one thing to say it, but to follow through is a different idea all together. Lucic is(was?) a really unique mix of physical play, board work and enough skill to score 20g consistently. His type of player is hard to find.

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04-15-2013, 07:02 PM
  #355
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I think you have to give the 5 kids a full season to see where they stand and which one will fetch the return this team needs on the market.

This year, you have to go and see if Hemsky, Gagner, MPS, and our first/second round picks (2013, 2014) can get you anything. Horcoff is probably going to stay, but uncertainty with the finish this club has ended the season on doesn't guarantee anything.

I can't be mad at MacT for taking the job offered to him by Lowe. But I'm pissed off at Kevin Lowe for hiring MacT without looking around first. MacT is what we have going forward. I wish him luck and I hope he knocks it out of the park.

But Lowe can go pound sand.

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04-15-2013, 07:02 PM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Sounds like the Oilers really want Klefbom on the team next year. Can't imagine it would be too hard to jump past N Schultz.
A 20 year old kid from Sweden coming off an injury is gonna push out a 10 year NHL veteran who has had to babysit a kid who doesn't play a lick of defense this year?

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Old
04-15-2013, 07:03 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
I'm thinking about guys like McDonagh, Bogosian, Shattenkirk etc.

Having 3 high end wingers is overkill. Centers and dmen are far more important. It's like having 3 superstar receivers in football. Sure it's a nice luxury to have but most teams would rather invest in their offensive line and QB.
Oilers aren't talented enough to do this.

I also don't know if we have "three high end wingers" when I don't really know if any of them will be able to score 40 goals at the NHL level.

Hall can't bulldoze his way to 40 in this league, you need to actually have hands and finish a lot of those opportunities.

They are probably going to get a center or d-man with their pick this year (Nurse or Monahan?).

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Old
04-15-2013, 07:04 PM
  #358
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Yeah I really hope Klefbom stays in the AHL for atleast half a season. The guy lost an entire development year due to injury. That has an effect. Bring him along slowly. No need to rush the guy.

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04-15-2013, 07:04 PM
  #359
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Hall
RNH
Yakupov
Eberle
Brown
Smid
Klefbom
JSchultz

Only players I don't trade off this roster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
A 20 year old kid from Sweden coming off an injury is gonna push out a 10 year NHL veteran who has had to babysit a kid who doesn't play a lick of defense this year?
I question which Schultz is actually doing the babysitting...but to answer your question, yes. I would rather Klefbom play the entire season in OKC though.

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04-15-2013, 07:05 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
No ... just no. To me this would signal this entire rebuild has been a giant failure, and a franchise without a star centerman is going nowhere.

RNH's rookie season blows away Taylor Hall's or Nail Yakupov's, at one point he was scoring at a rate comparable to Evgeni Malkin as a rookie. Yes he has had a sophomore slump (maybe playing with a bum shoulder) but to trade him ... ugh.

They can do something like that, sure ... but they won't be doing it with me as a fan.

To come out of 6 years or whatever of top 10 picks, three of them being no.1, and not having a no.1 center to show for it would be freaking pathetic.
Well you can keep him and trade Yakupov and have a one line team again. And I said last week the Devils employ this strategy and have won 3 championships without an elite center. The main thing that matters is center depth. Theres also the chance RNH doesn't turn out so just keep that in mind before your up in arms about trading him. He's has the body of a boy and probably won't mature until he's 26-30 years old and become that elite center everyone is dreaming of. If your willing to wait 6 years for him to come into his own thats fine but personally I'd move him before any of the other big 5.

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04-15-2013, 07:06 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Should mention that Gilbert is a UFA at the end of next season.

Also, Wild will buyout Heatley, not Gilbert.
You get two compliance buyout, they buyout both

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Old
04-15-2013, 07:06 PM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
Well you can keep him and trade Yakupov and have a one line team again. And I said last week the Devils employ this strategy and have won 3 championships without an elite center. The main thing that matters is center depth. Theres also the chance RNH doesn't turn out so just keep that in mind before your up in arms about trading him. He's has the body of a boy and probably won't mature until he's 26-30 years old and become that elite center everyone is dreaming of. If your willing to wait 6 years for him to come into his own thats fine but personally I'd move him before any of the other big 5.
Oh they also had that guy in net. Ooohhh whats his name? He was pretty good too IIRC.

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04-15-2013, 07:06 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Well you can keep him and trade Yakupov and have a one line team again. And I said last week the Devils employ this strategy and have won 3 championships without an elite center. The main thing that matters is center depth. Theres also the chance RNH doesn't turn out so just keep that in mind before your up in arms about trading him. He's has the body of a boy and probably won't mature until he's 26-30 years old and become that elite center everyone is dreaming of. If your willing to wait 6 years for him to come into his own thats fine but personally I'd move him before any of the other big 5.
I don't trade any of the 5 kids.

I would trade Gagner, Hemsky, MPS, our 1st for the next two years, and every other Oiler before I include any one of the 5 in a trade.

Personally I think some of the "grit" issue is getting overblown anyway. Trade Hemsky for Ott. There's one reasonable move that adds considerably to the Oilers.

The truth is we have a talented group but they're phyiscally immature, RNH in particular needs time. But making a panic move and shipping out a crown jewel for a bunch of grinders/role players would be the dumbest move long term we could make.

A lot of the "grit" issue is solved simply by a weight room and protein powder and having some patience. It's easy for grown men to push around 18/19/20 year old kids, not so easy when they get to 22/23 and start to develop their man strength.

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04-15-2013, 07:13 PM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Oilers aren't talented enough to do this.

I also don't know if we have "three high end wingers" when I don't really know if any of them will be able to score 40 goals at the NHL level.

Hall can't bulldoze his way to 40 in this league, you need to actually have hands and finish a lot of those opportunities.

They are probably going to get a center or d-man with their pick this year (Nurse or Monahan?).
Not sure how we're not talented enough to do this. It's not like we would be replacing a talented player with the plug. We would be replacing one talented player with another. The talent remains the same, it is just spread out amongst the positions better.

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Old
04-15-2013, 07:18 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
You get two compliance buyout, they buyout both
Not sure they want to use both in one season, but if they buyout Tom Gilbert than he's an easy UFA signing. Really easy.

Couple him with another D-man UFA signing, like say Hainsey, and now we're cooking.

J.Schultz-BLANK
Smid-Petry
Hainsey-Gilbert
Potter-Klefbom

Nick Schultz would help get us a No.2 D-man, him + our first rounder would be interesting.

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04-15-2013, 07:18 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
There are no top pairing UFA D's this offseason.
There's some interesting players - Mark Streit, Sergei Gonchar, Ian White. Are they true top pairing defenders? Probably not.

Are they better than who we have? maybe.

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Old
04-15-2013, 07:20 PM
  #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
There's some interesting players - Mark Streit, Sergei Gonchar, Ian White. Are they true top pairing defenders? Probably not.

Are they better than who we have? maybe.
I think they can move the puck, at least.

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04-15-2013, 07:24 PM
  #368
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I want you guys to put away personal hate for this one...

Would you make this move?

To Edmonton:
Dion Phaneuf (sign and trade)

To Toronto:
2013 first rounder
Nick Schultz

OR

To Toronto:
Nick Schultz
Curtis Hamilton
2013 2nd rounder
2014 3rd rounder

To Edmonton:
Dion Phaneuf (2014 UFA)

EDIT: Probably add to what Edmonton is giving on proposal 2


Last edited by Paralyzer008: 04-15-2013 at 07:40 PM.
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04-15-2013, 07:27 PM
  #369
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Trading Nuge would be silly. Even with his struggles this year, his talent an ability is obvious. Who is the last #1 overall pick that was a center who was traded?

I can only think of two players that fit that criteria and the teams trading them probably regretted it (and lost the trade) - Joe Thornton and Mats Sundin

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04-15-2013, 07:27 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I don't trade any of the 5 kids.

I would trade Gagner, Hemsky, MPS, our 1st for the next two years, and every other Oiler before I include any one of the 5 in a trade.

Personally I think some of the "grit" issue is getting overblown anyway. Trade Hemsky for Ott. There's one reasonable move that adds considerably to the Oilers.

The truth is we have a talented group but they're phyiscally immature, RNH in particular needs time. But making a panic move and shipping out a crown jewel for a bunch of grinders/role players would be the dumbest move long term we could make.

A lot of the "grit" issue is solved simply by a weight room and protein powder and having some patience. It's easy for grown men to push around 18/19/20 year old kids, not so easy when they get to 22/23 and start to develop their man strength.
Who said anything about trading him for Grinders? If we trade him its for a top 6 center with defensive skill and a top pairing d man.

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04-15-2013, 07:32 PM
  #371
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Who said anything about trading him for Grinders? If we trade him its for a top 6 center with defensive skill and a top pairing d man.
Again, to me coming out of three no.1 picks without a no.1 center .... seriously as an organization, just find a cliff and go jump off it, because it just shows complete and utter failure as a management group.

We haven't had a real no.1 center since Doug Weight, I'm not waiting another 10 years to find another one trying to make due with no.2 centers trying to hack it at the no.1 spot.

There is no team in the NHL that's won anything of note using that formula. They won't trade RNH, no way. Even the Oilers are not that crazy.

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04-15-2013, 07:38 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
Trading Nuge would be beyond stupid. Even with his struggles this year, his talent an ability is obvious. Who is the last #1 overall pick that was a center who was traded?

I can only think of two players that fit that criteria and the teams trading them probably regretted it (and lost the trade) - Joe Thornton and Mats Sundin
The Nordic's traded all 3 of their 1st overall picks Lindros, Sundin, and Nolan. That turned out awful for them! And Boston developed Thornton 8 years before they traded him? Thornton is also a lot bigger then RNH if that makes any difference.

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04-15-2013, 07:40 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Question:

Would you do Nick Schultz for Tom Gilbert?

Would the Wild?
Hmm

Healthy scratch puck mover that produces no offense vs a guy everyone in Minny loved.

Nope, rather keep Schultz, he actually contributes something

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Old
04-15-2013, 07:43 PM
  #374
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The Nordic's traded all 3 of their 1st overall picks Lindros, Sundin, and Nolan. That turned out awful for them! And Boston developed Thornton 8 years before they traded him? Thornton is also a lot bigger then RNH if that makes any difference.
The Avs were fortunate those trades turned out for them, because the Sundin one in particular was monumentally stupid. The Lindros one, their hands were obviously tied.

Trading RNH could work out well for us ... if the long term plan is to say tank for McDavid, then yeah you could look back at it in 10 years and say it was good.

Trading Thornton was also a mistake for the Bruins. I don't see how they won that trade at all.

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04-15-2013, 07:48 PM
  #375
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Again, to me coming out of three no.1 picks without a no.1 center .... seriously as an organization, just find a cliff and go jump off it, because it just shows complete and utter failure as a management group.

We haven't had a real no.1 center since Doug Weight, I'm not waiting another 10 years to find another one trying to make due with no.2 centers trying to hack it at the no.1 spot.

There is no team in the NHL that's won anything of note using that formula. They won't trade RNH, no way. Even the Oilers are not that crazy.
Boston, Anaheim, New Jersey, and depending what you think of Kopitar they all won without elite centres. The teams that usually win are teams with great center depth, every team that has won a cup using the centers as the main piece of their rosters has had 2 great centers not one so we should be tanking for Mackinnon this year again if thats the model you want to use.

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