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Old
04-14-2013, 12:13 PM
  #926
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All will be forgiven if the Rangers make the playoff, have a deep run, and Richards contributes. The slate is wiped clean to start the second season

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04-14-2013, 12:23 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Efficiency isn't about points. It's about how those points are achieved, and everything that happens when points aren't being scored.



Sad is attempting to use points alone for two players with nearly the same production as a basis of evaluation.



No, actually the difference is last year, the team was 11th in goals, by far the highest it has been since the lockout, and higher than it was the year before. Again, Richards was the only major roster change. Gomez's Rangers were the worst offensive squads since the lockout.

No one is denying that Richards has played terribly this season. But this is a weird season, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he'll bounce back next year. He always has in the past.



The point of the argument is that this is exactly what makes Scott Gomez a detrimental player to have on your team. Yes, on any day I would rather have Markus Naslund, Zherdev, or Drury shooting the puck over Gomez, because Gomez is a terrible shooter. His entire game is passing! Why would you ever want him to shoot the puck, much less be one of the most frequent shooters in the league? He had one of the lowest shooting percentages in the league, and this was just a pattern that had been going on for 4 years, even before he was on the Rangers. This is what makes Gomez an inefficient player. He's selfish and he's stupid. He is a turnover machine and he wastes offensive zone opportunities in record amounts. I would rather not have his 60 or 70 points and instead have all of the chances for puck possession and offensive zone time.

Richards turned it on the last couple of months of the season, and played pretty well during the playoffs, especially when you consider that Gaborik was playing hurt and almost entirely ineffective during the postseason.



LOL. Lundqvist is a Vezina candidate almost every year, and the notion that any of McD Girardi or MDZ were Norris caliber is laughable. The highest scorer among them, MDZ, was 24th in the league in points among defenseman. Just because McDonagh and Girardi played a lot of minutes doesn't mean they were Norris caliber. They were very good, and I would say that in addition to Richards, McDonagh was probably the biggest difference from the year before, but Norris? No, sorry. MDZ's point totals, by the way, had a lot to do with Richards. But what is even more laughable is suggesting that Mitchell or Kreider had more to do with the team's success than Richards. That is pure gold.



How am I tip-toeing around anything? Sather DIDN'T have a choice . . . because as usual, he backed himself into a corner, in large part thanks to senseless moves like Gomez.



Then we're even, because I think Gomez is the biggest piece of **** to ever put on a Ranger jersey in my lifetime, and the single dumbest non-goon player I've ever watched in the NHL. Anyone that is going to compare his two years favorably to Richards' 11-12 season is insane in my book.
He explained why he doesn't think Richards was the major roster change that led to last season. Richards played a role but most of the season he was not producing at a high level and in fact had months of around 3-5 pts if I remember. I agree with him there that young guys stepping in was bigger, not Richards but it's just our opinion you have valid points and a valid stance too.

When he said Norris caliber defense I thought he was talking from a defensive perspective only. In that sense their play on the D side of things was truly awesome and Stralman was great too. Saying "norris caliber" the way he did seems more a figure of speech I think you are taking too literal.
Even guy like EMinger stepped in and played really really well D wise last year at points (Woywitka even had a few good games lol).

You might have wanted Naslund and Drury shooting more but they needed to shoot more on their own. They were old and as colonials said prob too washed up to do so. maybe this led Gomer Pile to pepper goalies chests more. There were small things like I thought Drury should have been used more on the PP but really ES and overall Drury just deteriorated on his own without Gomer's help.

Both of you have valid points but it makes this arguement stupid when you're both ignoring and nitpicking each others points in crucial areas and the only arguement I can see is "You're wrong and this is right". How could you list Mitchell and Kreider while simultaneously not mentioning Girardi's best season as a pro, Stralman being a true surprise, McD turning into a borderline all star and leaving out Hags name completely?

Gomer was a garbage heap and richards is a garbage heap but Gomer never came close to doing what Rich did his first season here. Gomer however got us an all time rangers defenseman in a trade whereas Richards will likely be bought out and if we're lucky contribute next year to an acceptable degree. Both deserve to be labeled in the same level of trash that seems befitting of all big time Sather FA signings.

I'll never forget how supremely excited I was to see we signed Gomer Pile and Drury only to see the terms and immediately think "Oh we've made a terrible mistake"


Last edited by shinchanyo: 04-14-2013 at 12:34 PM.
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Old
04-15-2013, 04:41 PM
  #928
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So is Richards really going to be bought out in the off season?

To me I don't see how they could.. think Rangers have to give him a shot for next year see if he can turn it around.. if he can't well then is the time.

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04-15-2013, 04:43 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
So is Richards really going to be bought out in the off season?

To me I don't see how they could.. think Rangers have to give him a shot for next year see if he can turn it around.. if he can't well then is the time.
I would assume he gets bought out in the summer of 2014.

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04-15-2013, 04:47 PM
  #930
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After trading Gaborik away, I don't see anyway he's bought out this year; there's now ample space to sign all the RFA's, Clowe, and still probably get a top-6 LW.

That said, I don't see anything he could do that prevents a buyout after next season. It's pretty much inevitable. Too long a contract with too high a cap hit to risk early retirement and face the cap "recapture." (Although, I'm sure some of the more savvy GM's have already figured out a loophole there - declaring them medically unable to play, players "refusing" to report, etc).

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04-16-2013, 12:25 AM
  #931
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Just a thought, but any chance the Rangers don't buy out Richards at all because they're anticipating that the cap will inflate to a point where his cap hit will remain manageable?

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04-16-2013, 12:33 AM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Glen Sathers Cigar View Post
Just a thought, but any chance the Rangers don't buy out Richards at all because they're anticipating that the cap will inflate to a point where his cap hit will remain manageable?
I'd say it's likely that the cap will inflate that high, but not sure the reward is worth the risk. Especially with our resources, I doubt management will take that risk unless he has a very good year next year.

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04-16-2013, 06:45 AM
  #933
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I don't care if he wins the Hart next year. He needs to be bought out anyway.

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04-16-2013, 07:19 AM
  #934
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Originally Posted by tjs252 View Post
After trading Gaborik away, I don't see anyway he's bought out this year; there's now ample space to sign all the RFA's, Clowe, and still probably get a top-6 LW.

That said, I don't see anything he could do that prevents a buyout after next season. It's pretty much inevitable. Too long a contract with too high a cap hit to risk early retirement and face the cap "recapture." (Although, I'm sure some of the more savvy GM's have already figured out a loophole there - declaring them medically unable to play, players "refusing" to report, etc).
There's not ample space to sign the group IIs,Clowe and another player. Clowe hasn't shown anything to show he is worth a long term contract. He had one good game and has gotten progressively slower in every game.

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04-16-2013, 08:48 AM
  #935
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The cap re-capture clause pretty much guarantees that Richards is bought out.

However, I think that the Rangers give Brad the full 2013-14 season and PO's to show that the last 2 years was not a trend. If the 13-14 season goes much like the last 2 seasons, Richards is a goner regardless of the Cap number.

This is the kind of thing that happens to the Rangers pre and post 05 lockout. Guys signed here and didn't do diddly.

The names are countless pre-lockout, post lockout the list is pretty long as well. The only guy to come in and really have success is Gaborik and we have a coach that employs a style completely un-suited for the player (reason why he was traded)

Richards has a year to prove himself. That year will represent 33% of his contract term. MORE than enough time to justify the deal. If he hasn't justifed the contract after next season, there can be no defending the player.

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:59 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
I don't care if he wins the Hart next year. He needs to be bought out anyway.
Funny but true. He's gone next summer. Let's just hope he has a good playoffs and a better next season. Have fun and play hard Richie, you got about a year left in NY.

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Old
04-16-2013, 03:19 PM
  #937
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We keep wanting to buy him out but I'm a little against it. Not a homer but I'm not sure of what we do to replace him. He is still a center.

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04-16-2013, 03:22 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
We keep wanting to buy him out but I'm a little against it. Not a homer but I'm not sure of what we do to replace him. He is still a center.
After next season?

Lindberg
Miller
Yogan
Jean
St. Croix

Those are the internal options.

Plus they have Brassard and Stepan already on the NHL team.

Plus there is a lot the Rangers could do with ~7 million in cap space.

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04-16-2013, 03:22 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
We keep wanting to buy him out but I'm a little against it. Not a homer but I'm not sure of what we do to replace him. He is still a center.
A lot of time between now and 2014. He could play his way into not being bought out, Brassard could blossom into a #2, the trade market could be beneficial to our needs/surpluses, who knows.

But right now it doesn't look very good for Brad.

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04-16-2013, 03:37 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
After next season?

Lindberg
Miller
Yogan
Jean
St. Croix

Those are the internal options.

Plus they have Brassard and Stepan already on the NHL team.

Plus there is a lot the Rangers could do with ~7 million in cap space.
All very good points by everyone. I guess I'm thinking long term a lot. I'm not skeptical of the internal options, as Miller played decent at center. But I also don't want to just lean on the rookies to be a great center game in and game out.

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04-16-2013, 03:38 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
However, I think that the Rangers give Brad the full 2013-14 season and PO's to show that the last 2 years was not a trend. If the 13-14 season goes much like the last 2 seasons, Richards is a goner regardless of the Cap number.
I disagree. Richards can win the Hart and Conn Smythe in 2013-2014, and I think he'd still be bought it. Theres just too much risk there.

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Old
04-16-2013, 03:40 PM
  #942
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All very good points by everyone. I guess I'm thinking long term a lot. I'm not skeptical of the internal options, as Miller played decent at center. But I also don't want to just lean on the rookies to be a great center game in and game out.
I forgot Nieves and Fogarty as well. I agree, but in another year Brassard and Stepan will hopefully be that much better

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04-16-2013, 03:43 PM
  #943
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I forgot Nieves and Fogarty as well. I agree, but in another year Brassard and Stepan will hopefully be that much better
Theres no way in hell this team will compete for a cup if Stepan and Brassard are the 1C and 2C.

Richards will need to be bought out, but a legitimate center will likely need to be imported again. Or else you're just wasting the tail end of Lundqvist's prime.

Whats the common denominator with all post lock-out Cup champs? Strong down the middle.

Love what Stepan is doing this season, but him and Brassard as the 1-2 just aint gonna cut it.

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04-16-2013, 03:45 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Theres no way in hell this team will compete for a cup if Stepan and Brassard are the 1C and 2C.

Richards will need to be bought out, but a legitimate center will likely need to be imported again. Or else you're just wasting the tail end of Lundqvist's prime.

Whats the common denominator with all post lock-out Cup champs? Strong down the middle.

Love what Stepan is doing this season, but him and Brassard as the 1-2 just aint gonna cut it.
In a year, they can decide what to do. If that is the case, then fine. They have the money. I stated that in my post above.

All I was pointing out, was that they wouldn't be left with no good centers. Stepan is already this teams #1 center anyways.

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04-16-2013, 03:48 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Theres no way in hell this team will compete for a cup if Stepan and Brassard are the 1C and 2C.

Richards will need to be bought out, but a legitimate center will likely need to be imported again. Or else you're just wasting the tail end of Lundqvist's prime.

Whats the common denominator with all post lock-out Cup champs? Strong down the middle.

Love what Stepan is doing this season, but him and Brassard as the 1-2 just aint gonna cut it.
There is no blueprint for a Stanley Cup winner. If you're deficient in one area, you can make it up in others.The Blackhawks won the cup with a winger as their 2nd line center.

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04-16-2013, 03:48 PM
  #946
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In a year, they can decide what to do. If that is the case, then fine. They have the money. I stated that in my post above.

All I was pointing out, was that they wouldn't be left with no good centers. Stepan is already this teams #1 center anyways.
Fair enough, but even with Stepan's emergence, I think its incredibly naive to assume that the internal options at center are even a possibility.

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04-16-2013, 03:50 PM
  #947
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Fair enough, but even with Stepan's emergence, I think its incredibly naive to assume that the internal options at center are even a possibility.
People said the same thing about Stepan when he left school as a sophomore. Miller has already proven to be an okay 3rd line NHL center as a 19 year old. I don't think it's naive to say the options are open and all options should be explored, including internal options.

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04-16-2013, 03:52 PM
  #948
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People said the same thing about Stepan when he left school as a sophomore. Miller has already proven to be an okay 3rd line NHL center as a 19 year old. I don't think it's naive to say the options are open and all options should be explored, including internal options.
The bolded is what Im talking about. Its just simply not true.

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04-16-2013, 03:55 PM
  #949
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Everything points to at least one more year with Richards. That's a year for Step, Brass, JT, Lindberg, etc. to get ready to take over. Worst case scenario, we go shopping. We know Sather's never had a problem with importing solutions to our problems. Just no super expensive old guys

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04-16-2013, 03:56 PM
  #950
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The bolded is what Im talking about. Its just simply not true.
He played in the NHL, as a 19 year old, as the 3rd line center. He had his good and bad moments. I wouldn't say he looked totally out of place.

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