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Habs D doesn't hold up 7-3 loss

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:07 AM
  #276
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Nope. He was inactive for good reason. This team doesn't have what it takes. I saw it and thankfully he saw it too.

Don't call me another bipolar fan because you can go back to the trade deadline where I repeatedly said we have to see how this team performs in the play-offs before we start making deals like a contender. We've seen this team over-achieve before only to plummet to the earth where they belong.

I'd package Gionta and Weber send them to Colorado for a 2nd round pick with us eating 2.5 million of Gionta's salary.
Moen would be sold to the highest bidder for whatever pick we can get.
I'd move Desharnais for a pick and a solid prospect like Kucherov out of Tampa Bay (they love our ex-players).
Armstrong would not be re-signed.

I'd make a pitch for Clowe, a fighter who can play regular minutes in the bottom four, a rugged penalty kill/face-off specialist, a top 4 defenseman and a skilled player with at least average size.
That is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Saying we dont have what it takes and then when adversity happens from not being proactive, proclaim you were right.

The key is proactive.

We could have had Clowe this season for the stretch run. The way Therrien is not using Ryder for scrap minutes on the 4th and parking him on the 3rd with a center he has no chemistry with, Bergevin would have been better off trading Ryder UFA for Clowe UFA.

We would have been bigger up front and Therrien's manlove for Bourque would have no negative consequences.

Bergevin should have gotten Murray. His size is what this team needs. Emelin going down to an injury would not have been so devastating as it is now.

Proactive always beats reactive.

But, two more years and we should be competing for the Cup. Same as we have been waiting two more years for the last twenty years with our great picks and prospects.

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04-16-2013, 12:08 AM
  #277
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Habs need to sit some vets to send a message
True, but he has been afraid to do it all year so i doubt he will make a move now.

Easy to pick up on Eller or White....

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04-16-2013, 12:11 AM
  #278
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We need le Jeune Vebber
Only if we play the Bruins in the playoffs.

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04-16-2013, 12:11 AM
  #279
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Let them think their team is hot ****, when playoffs time comes, they will get murdered in the first round... assuming they dont play us lol.
I think most Leaf fans are happy just to be in the playoffs. Anything after that's just gravy.

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04-16-2013, 12:14 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
That is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Saying we dont have what it takes and then when adversity happens from not being proactive, proclaim you were right.

The key is proactive.

We could have had Clowe this season for the stretch run. The way Therrien is not using Ryder for scrap minutes on the 4th and parking him on the 3rd with a center he has no chemistry with, Bergevin would have been better off trading Ryder UFA for Clowe UFA.

We would have been bigger up front and Therrien's manlove for Bourque would have no negative consequences.

Bergevin should have gotten Murray. His size is what this team needs. Emelin going down to an injury would not have been so devastating as it is now.

Proactive always beats reactive.

But, two more years and we should be competing for the Cup. Same as we have been waiting two more years for the last twenty years with our great picks and prospects.
Clowe and Murray are not going to fix this team alone.

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04-16-2013, 12:15 AM
  #281
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I am not a fan of Therrien's speech there. Everything about it is right, except he was giving that to the wrong people. That speech was a speech you make to the players not the media to excuse yourself.
that speech is from 2006...when he was coaching the Pens...note the background

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04-16-2013, 12:19 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Clowe and Murray are not going to fix this team alone.
Individually? No. You are correct.

Addressing glaring needs of this team? You bet they will fix this team. Especially after what we witnessed tonight.

No one player can carry an entire team. There are roles on a team and those roles have to be filled and played. They may not be scoring roles, but if they are absent, the entire team tends to not function at a high level.

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04-16-2013, 12:23 AM
  #283
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Gallagher tied for 1st in rookie scoring.

Not bad at all.
Huberdeau has 685 minutes whereas BG played only 529 minutes.
With same minutes as Huberdeau, his pace would give him 31 points.

I think it is going to be between Huberdeau, Gallagher and Schultz.

Huberdeau is second in his team so I would say that he is the front runner but the energy that Galagher is amazing.

With Galchenyuk and Gallagher we have a great pair of rookies this season.

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04-16-2013, 12:25 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Individually? No. You are correct.

Addressing glaring needs of this team? You bet they will fix this team. Especially after what we witnessed tonight.

No one player can carry an entire team. There are roles on a team and those roles have to be filled and played. They may not be scoring roles, but if they are absent, the entire team tends to not function at a high level.
Giving up 4 x 2nd round picks + 3rd round pick for those two guys with this team.. Is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

Pittsburgh can afford it. We can't.

We need to be smart in the off season.

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04-16-2013, 12:26 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Giving up 4 x 2nd round picks + 3rd round pick for those two guys with this team.. Is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

Pittsburgh can afford it. We can't.

We need to be smart in the off season.
I agree. Some teams (Vancouver) are at the end of their window, ours is just starting to open. We don't need to sell the farm for Clowe, esp when he's sitting there with zero goals.

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04-16-2013, 12:28 AM
  #286
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I love how Bergevin was supposed to know Emelin would tear his ACL.

Murray would look good now...because we are playing Frankie Bou Bou in the top 4. I still would have good after Regehr, but we'd hate him too if he had to play as more than a bottom pairing guy.

If Bergevin is getting hate now, imagine what he would have if he traded our top picks for rentals only to get KOed in the first round.

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04-16-2013, 12:31 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by durojean View Post
Guys what about those line ?

Ryder Plekanec Gionta

This line has proven to be quite effective this year both offensively and defensively.

Galchenyuk Eller Gallagher

A kid line with the 3 players that are hot right now. You only have Gallagher that is small.

Bourque Desharnais Pacioretty

Bourque would play the Cole of last year line and you only have one small player on that line. So you could hide Desharnais's weaknesses while giving him two winger that could score.

Prust Halpern Moen

Grind line... I'd rather Dumont instead of Moen to be honest.

For the d pairing.

Subban Gorges

You over play them 30 min a night.

Markov Drewiske

You play them a lot less then the Markov Emelin pairing. ( 15 min a night )

Bouillion Beaulieu

You play them like you did when the Markov Emelin pairing.
I like the offensive combinations but for D, we should be bringing up Tinordi and sending down Beaulieu, Diaz can't get back any faster.

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04-16-2013, 12:31 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Giving up 4 x 2nd round picks + 3rd round pick for those two guys with this team.. Is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

Pittsburgh can afford it. We can't.

We need to be smart in the off season.
Well, I am sure we have lost Ryder. Diaz will now have a history of concussion so he is not 100% reliable. Emelin now has a bum knee. Pleks will be one year older and slower. So will Markov and not sure how he will perform during a full season. Gorges is getting older. Prust is beat up and he is having injury issues for the first time in his career. Moen is getting worse for the wear.

The whole point is that this may have been the magical year and we could be the Florida Panthers next year. In my opinion, there is no such thing as a perfect future when the present looks pretty damned great and we only needed a couple of pieces to make that run for the Cup.

But we will never know, will we?

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04-16-2013, 12:33 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I love how Bergevin was supposed to know Emelin would tear his ACL.

Murray would look good now...because we are playing Frankie Bou Bou in the top 4. I still would have good after Regehr, but we'd hate him too if he had to play as more than a bottom pairing guy.

If Bergevin is getting hate now, imagine what he would have if he traded our top picks for rentals only to get KOed in the first round.
I know I'd have been upset about it. He made the right call.

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04-16-2013, 12:34 AM
  #290
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I agree. Some teams (Vancouver) are at the end of their window, ours is just starting to open. We don't need to sell the farm for Clowe, esp when he's sitting there with zero goals.
We have the goal scorers on this team. We dont need Clowe to be the goal scorer for this team. We need Clowe to allow our goal scorers to do their job, all the while being on the ice and not hurting the team.

Isnt that what was always said on the enforcer thread? We need someone who can play hockey and still step up when needed.

And there was Clowe, and now he is based on zero goals (he's had a couple with the Rangers so far) and useless to this team.

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04-16-2013, 12:37 AM
  #291
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F
Voracek, 6'2"
Rosehill, 6'3"
Simmonds, 6'2"
Mcginn, 6'2"
Knuble, 6'3"
Hartnell, 6'2"
Hall, 6'2"
Couturier, 6'3"

D
Foster, 6'5"
Huskins, 6'4"
Lauridsen, 6'6"
Schenn, 6'2"

No player under 5'10"

Look at this defense....you see this defense, right?

I know...let's throw our 5'7" Desharnais 20:44 freaking minutes on the ice
That's a good idea. Let's put 5'7" Gionta and 5'9" Gallagher a bit more than 15 minutes.

We have 4 players with a 6'2" frame in our team....only that!!
Nothing more....let's play Bourque 14M. Eller 14:43......Moen 10M

Do not even try to protect a little Gallagher...the kids getting banged up.
Left him on a line with a player who can't do absolutely nothing to anyone in case of intimidation.
And with Pacioretty who is barely capable of taking care of himself.

Grrrrrrr..................
Was in the CB tonight....that size is so much more obvious at the rink

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04-16-2013, 12:37 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I love how Bergevin was supposed to know Emelin would tear his ACL.

Murray would look good now...because we are playing Frankie Bou Bou in the top 4. I still would have good after Regehr, but we'd hate him too if he had to play as more than a bottom pairing guy.

If Bergevin is getting hate now, imagine what he would have if he traded our top picks for rentals only to get KOed in the first round.
You never know when injuries happen. Because they happen all the time.

That is why you insure that you will have depth for a playoff run and not rely on AHLers to step up if you have an injury to a player like Emelin.

Diaz was still on IR, Weber is useless, Kaberle is a buyout and Bergevin got us a scrub DMan to shore up this team.

Very short sighted and not proactive.

Murray could have been signed and traded to us. Clowe was very interested in sign and trade. No rentals there.

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04-16-2013, 12:40 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
F
Voracek, 6'2"
Rosehill, 6'3"
Simmonds, 6'2"
Mcginn, 6'2"
Knuble, 6'3"
Hartnell, 6'2"
Hall, 6'2"
Couturier, 6'3"

D
Foster, 6'5"
Huskins, 6'4"
Lauridsen, 6'6"
Schenn, 6'2"

No player under 5'10"

Look at this defense....you see this defense, right?

I know...let's throw our 5'7" Desharnais 20:44 freaking minutes on the ice
That's a good idea. Let's put 5'7" Gionta and 5'9" Gallagher a bit more than 15 minutes.

We have 4 players with a 6'2" frame in our team....only that!!
Nothing more....let's play Bourque 14M. Eller 14:43......Moen 10M

Do not even try to protect a little Gallagher...the kids getting banged up.
Left him on a line with a player who can't do absolutely nothing to anyone in case of intimidation.
And with Pacioretty who is barely capable of taking care of himself.

Grrrrrrr..................
Was in the CB tonight....that size is so much more obvious at the rink
Philadelphia is having such a great year too, look at them on top of the conference, size really is undervalued on HFboards

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:40 AM
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Well, I am sure we have lost Ryder. Diaz will now have a history of concussion so he is not 100% reliable. Emelin now has a bum knee. Pleks will be one year older and slower. So will Markov and not sure how he will perform during a full season. Gorges is getting older. Prust is beat up and he is having injury issues for the first time in his career. Moen is getting worse for the wear.

The whole point is that this may have been the magical year and we could be the Florida Panthers next year. In my opinion, there is no such thing as a perfect future when the present looks pretty damned great and we only needed a couple of pieces to make that run for the Cup.

But we will never know, will we?
Exactly.. we could be the Florida Panthers next year. The goal is to become like the Bruins, Penguins, Blackhawks and Red Wings + Devils (now starting to falter). A team that has a chance to win year in and year out.

Or you can go the Flyers and Rangers route.. which only has one year of magic, then a bunch of puzzling years where you're left wondering what the hell is going on.

If this team isn't meant to do it as is this year, you adjust in the off season, identify the weak spots and make the necessary moves to ensure that this team is an elite team going forward. If we fall flat on our faces in the play-offs and next season.. all that means is we rode a half-season hot streak, which is enough because it was a shortened season.

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04-16-2013, 12:41 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You never know when injuries happen. Because they happen all the time.

That is why you insure that you will have depth for a playoff run and not rely on AHLers to step up if you have an injury to a player like Emelin.

Diaz was still on IR, Weber is useless, Kaberle is a buyout and Bergevin got us a scrub DMan to shore up this team.

Very short sighted and not proactive.

Murray could have been signed and traded to us. Clowe was very interested in sign and trade. No rentals there.
Murray had a good career. I'm glad we didn't trade for the shadow of his former self, let alone sign it to an extension.

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04-16-2013, 12:42 AM
  #296
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Probably discussed earlier, but re: Denis asnwering the question about Price while right next to him and when AC showed the clip again, not just him looking up at the camera, but how he almost had tears in his eyes:

1) Are you ****ing retarded Marc Denis? I thought you and Price are pals. You couldn't pick another question? You couldn't just not say his name? (we already knew who you were talking about.) I really like Denis, but he did the most idiotic thing. You think Carey isn't already having a psychological meltdown.

2) If I'm in Price's head, I'm thinking, "What does a guy have to do in a 'rebound game' to have his team bail him out?"

After the second goal (which was not great), he shut the door and made it so that we got within one. Of course, there was the 3rd goal wherein Gorges made me want to beat him with a bat for the amount he talks about playing hard and focussing and all that bs that makes people want him to be captain. Your best buddy just made a string of great saves. Your team just got back into it to make it 2-1. Sure...just be ridiculously lame on the puck and allow them to shove it top corner (something our fwds have no idea how to do) from RIGHT IN THE SLOT.

DD coverage on the Giroux goal...wow...just wow. Price goes across to make the save, YOU PICK UP YOUR ****ING GUY ASHOLE! Then his missed chances and penalties. I haven't been this mad at the team this year, not even close and DD is the biggest example of how there is no culpability and MT is full of ****. If Eller doesn't start on that line next game (Or Chucky, moving DD to 3rd line wing), it just shows that you can suck and as long as you're a media darling (even the AC crew were not impressed with DD), you don't get the Eller benched after ONE game treatment.

Drewiskie was doing ok...until tonight. Boullion honestly plays hard, there's so much he can do.

I'll say it again, losing Emelin is just like when we lost MArkov before the playoffs. The buffalo game meant nothing. It was right after their firesale. Without Emelin, our whole team dynamic sucks and it has a trickle down effect with the pairings.

PK had a good AND bad game, but can't fault him, has to do it all alone. Markov, haven't seen him that bad in awhile. Then again, when he puts it on your stick, Ryder, you don't just tap it.

I saw Pacioretty getting involved towards the end, but still no finish apart from that first goal. No power forward there.

Beaulieu: Yeah, you're a rookie, fine, I get that you make mistakes, but when you're recovering the puck in your zone with a flyer bearing down on you, don't remind me of that time you gave up on the play in the WJC. I've heard about his headcase problems and he needs to fix them. Tinordi plays like a professional. Even Pateryn would have at least given a ****.

Chucky played great, so did Eller, but they were a littttle out of sync on a few plays. Not a big deal, but I hope they can start scoring on a goal p game basis for that line cuz they'll need to carry this team. Them and the absolutely phenomenal Brendan Gallagher. Wow. What a player. Makes me happy that he wears 11, plays like him. Puck along the boards, two guys on you...nifty but simple cut and you're into the middle of the ice. Patches, take notice. Your blue line wristers are more annoying than Gio's slapshots.

Back to Price. He let in one bad goal. Not enough to lose the game. Made many more saves to win the game. No team in front of him. I mentioned this against Toronto and people said that it's cuz we were already down 3 goals. No, it's the same **** - this team has all of a sudden turned to ****. I can understand why Price's face read "Are they seriously blaming ME, AGAIN?"

I think the crowd at the BC could tell that Carey was being hung out to dry and got behind him when he was making those saves which were at the time, pretty key.

Maybe it's time we do have our usual mass board panic. That's usually when things turn around and against a tough opponent.

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04-16-2013, 12:45 AM
  #297
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Exactly.. we could be the Florida Panthers next year. The goal is to become like the Bruins, Penguins, Blackhawks and Red Wings + Devils (now starting to falter). A team that has a chance to win year in and year out.

Or you can go the Flyers and Rangers route.. which only has one year of magic, then a bunch of puzzling years where you're left wondering what the hell is going on.

If this team isn't meant to do it as is this year, you adjust in the off season, identify the weak spots and make the necessary moves to ensure that this team is an elite team going forward. If we fall flat on our faces in the play-offs and next season.. all that means is we rode a half-season hot streak, which is enough because it was a shortened season.
I hope Bergevin is able to trade several players in the organization during the offseason to address genuine needs.......namely the size of this team as well as addressing the issue of being the League's punching bag.

For if he does not, there are very few prospects who will fill those needs.

Without trades or signings, it will be longer than a couple of years to achieve what we did have this season.

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04-16-2013, 12:46 AM
  #298
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You never know when injuries happen. Because they happen all the time.

That is why you insure that you will have depth for a playoff run and not rely on AHLers to step up if you have an injury to a player like Emelin.

Diaz was still on IR, Weber is useless, Kaberle is a buyout and Bergevin got us a scrub DMan to shore up this team.

Very short sighted and not proactive.

Murray could have been signed and traded to us. Clowe was very interested in sign and trade. No rentals there.
Well, as far as "insurance" goes, that's what Drewhiskie was for. You only go for a Murray if you are making a run for it. Murray is a bottom pairing guy at this point who costs more than most. People complained when Gauthier traded for Sopel and Mara, Murray is like a cross between them.

Clowe was allegedly demanding a lot of money if resigned, we don't know if that's true but we do know he hasn't signed yet. And really, Clowe plays the same role as Bourque does. Not that they are identical players but they both are at their best in similar circumstances, doing the dirty work while serving as secondary shooters. You have complained that Bourque being back has hurt the team's chemistry, Clowe would be like that only more so. Sure, he'd probably have been a better choice to try and fight guys like Simmonds than Moen, but who knows at this point. If we make room for Clowe we can still go after him in the off season, but he really hasn't done much after a great first game with the Rangers.

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04-16-2013, 12:47 AM
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
I hope Bergevin is able to trade several players in the organization during the offseason to address genuine needs.......namely the size of this team as well as addressing the issue of being the League's punching bag.

For if he does not, there are very few prospects who will fill those needs.

Without trades or signings, it will be longer than a couple of years to achieve what we did have this season.
That's what I was just pointing at..

Desharnais, Gionta, Moen, Armstrong and Bouillon need to go.

To be acquired:
A skilled forward who is average size 5'11 or so.
A physical forward who can be a net front presence and chip in goals.
A face-off/PK specialist that can be physical.
A top-4 D Man that is physical in his own end.

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04-16-2013, 12:50 AM
  #300
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