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Article about our centers futures.

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Old
04-16-2013, 07:01 AM
  #226
Faltorvo
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Originally Posted by Rinzler View Post
Very solid post I couldn't agree more.

Bozak is an easy re sign for reasons stated above. The Leafs have zero issues at center (finally).
Foolish position

If he was an easy re-sign he would be inked by now and thats the rub, he is swinging for well above his weight class and DN wisely has not bitten.

He will be allowed to test the market and a foolish team might bite and will regret it in a heart beat.

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04-16-2013, 07:08 AM
  #227
Joey Hoser
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Foolish position

If he was an easy re-sign he would be inked by now and thats the rub, he is swinging for well above his weight class and DN wisely has not bitten.

He will be allowed to test the market and a foolish team might bite and will regret it in a heart beat.
Isn't he an RFA? I dont' see a team paying 3.5-5 million for him and giving up a first and third rounder to do it.

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04-16-2013, 07:12 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I just don't get why people are so offended by the notion of paying Bozak $5m. It's probably right around his market value, maybe a little high, but not offensive. The guy is our #1 centre, has chemistry with our #1 winger, plays more than any other forward on our team, and the only player in the league who's taken more faceoffs than he has is Claude Giroux.

People act like we've got a better alternative. Newsflash. Ryan Getzlaf signed. The available UFAs are Stephen Weiss, Derek Roy, and Mike Ribeiro. The only guy who MIGHT be a better #1 for us than Bozak would Weiss, and he's undoubtedly going to cost more, plus come with an injury history.

In talking about building a winner, it starts with retaining the players contributing to your success. Bozak is certainly in that group. If the cap becomes an issue for us, the $5.5m Mikhail Grabovski is the one to target.

I'd hope for a contract similar to that of David Desharnais, but, realistically, we're clearly better off with Bozak as long as he makes less than Mikhail Grabovski.
Most people have no idea what a Players worth is. If they like the player, he's worth 'x' amount. If they don't like him, he isn't.

Nonis will give him 4.5 - 5, because that's what this type of Player gets. If he doesn't give it to him someone else will.

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04-16-2013, 07:24 AM
  #229
Joey Hoser
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Most people have no idea what a Players worth is. If they like the player, he's worth 'x' amount. If they don't like him, he isn't.

Nonis will give him 4.5 - 5, because that's what this type of Player gets. If he doesn't give it to him someone else will.
But if you sign Bozak for 5, Kadri gets at least that amount, and now your paying 3 centers 16+ million and still may or may not have a first line center.

I like Bozak, and want him to stay on this team, but that's not a good situation.

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04-16-2013, 07:25 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
But if you sign Bozak for 5, Kadri gets at least that amount, and now your paying 3 centers 16+ million and still may or may not have a first line center.

I like Bozak, and want him to stay on this team, but that's not a good situation.
That'll be on Nonis but I would expect they would remove Grabovski if they felt they were paying too much up the middle.

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04-16-2013, 07:27 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I just don't get why people are so offended by the notion of paying Bozak $5m. It's probably right around his market value, maybe a little high, but not offensive. The guy is our #1 centre, has chemistry with our #1 winger, plays more than any other forward on our team, and the only player in the league who's taken more faceoffs than he has is Claude Giroux.

People act like we've got a better alternative. Newsflash. Ryan Getzlaf signed. The available UFAs are Stephen Weiss, Derek Roy, and Mike Ribeiro. The only guy who MIGHT be a better #1 for us than Bozak would Weiss, and he's undoubtedly going to cost more, plus come with an injury history.
Ribeiro tops that list by a country mile and is a #1.

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04-16-2013, 07:32 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
Isn't he an RFA? I dont' see a team paying 3.5-5 million for him and giving up a first and third rounder to do it.
He is UFA.

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04-16-2013, 07:40 AM
  #233
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Ribeiro tops that list by a country mile and is a #1.
I don't think so. Sure, he could be a #1 on a lot of teams. But he's not comparable to the #1s from Stanley Cup winning teams, which is really what the comparison should be. If you can't be a #1 on a SC winning team, then you're really just filling the role by default on a not-so-good team.

Points-wise, he's comparable to some of the lower-end #1 centres (when looking at points, not total package), but the thing that makes those lower-end point production guys legitimate #1 centres is that they're great defensively (Bergeron/Toews/Kopitar/etc), which Ribeiro absolutely is not.

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04-16-2013, 04:34 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
I don't think so. Sure, he could be a #1 on a lot of teams. But he's not comparable to the #1s from Stanley Cup winning teams, which is really what the comparison should be. If you can't be a #1 on a SC winning team, then you're really just filling the role by default on a not-so-good team.

Points-wise, he's comparable to some of the lower-end #1 centres (when looking at points, not total package), but the thing that makes those lower-end point production guys legitimate #1 centres is that they're great defensively (Bergeron/Toews/Kopitar/etc), which Ribeiro absolutely is not.
I would rather pay him 5-6 vs paying either Bozak or Grabo 5-5.5. Unlike Grabo and Bozak, Ribeiro can max out Kessels offensive potential. Should Caryle need to add a defensive presence on LW then JVR drops down a line: JVR Kadri Lupul

McClement has already taken over the #3 equaling Grabo in icetime and points production at a 1/3 of the cost. Kadri has cemented the #2 slot but isn't ready yet to completely take over the #1.

A successful summer for Nonis:

#1 - Ribeiro
#2 - Kadri
#3 - McClement
#4 - Komarov/??

Buyout Grabo and Komisarek..Not resign Bozak and MacArthur.

Use the extra cap space towards resigning:
RFA's: Kadri,Komarov,Gunnarsson,Franson,Fraser,McLaren
UFAs: Orr,O'Byrne

Anything left goes towards a short term vet D.


Last edited by JackJ: 04-16-2013 at 04:42 PM.
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Old
04-16-2013, 05:51 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by The Iceman View Post
Stasny is owed $6.6 million next year.
You want that???
Stasny is no better offensively than Bozak and far less dependable as a 2 way player.
Stasny scored 57 points and 53 points and is on pace in a full season to score 43 points this year.
Dude has regressed for 3 straight years after getting an inflated contract.
I would stay FAR away.
stastny is significantly better than bozak offensively, this is a player that has been a point per game player for 3 seasons in the nhl, all of which when he was younger then bozak.

it would be pretty easy to argue that bozak is playing with much more offensively talented players then stastny is this year and last year.

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04-17-2013, 05:49 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
It's obvious 416, so many of the lovers don't have a clue whats going on, so they just parrot the buzz words used from the sports shows.

Don't get too concerned, there is a reason DN has not signed TB .
Bozak isn't the assist man on that line. Kessel obviously is due his style of play.

Deuce457, Stastny would make that line extremely soft. If we get him slot him with Lupul and Kulemin, and put Kadri up as #1C. One thing for certain, it's going to be much more easier to make Kadri stronger on his skates, defensively more aware and further refine his shot.

Stast isn't his father, a good shot ( very important for this line) is essential on that line. Bozak can pot around 20 goals pro-rated ( similar to Paul) and we need someone who can do more. For that reason, I wouldn't mind Jeff Carter who would be a much bigger presence in the middle.

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04-17-2013, 07:59 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
Bozak isn't the assist man on that line. Kessel obviously is due his style of play.

Deuce457, Stastny would make that line extremely soft. If we get him slot him with Lupul and Kulemin, and put Kadri up as #1C. One thing for certain, it's going to be much more easier to make Kadri stronger on his skates, defensively more aware and further refine his shot.

Stast isn't his father, a good shot ( very important for this line) is essential on that line. Bozak can pot around 20 goals pro-rated ( similar to Paul) and we need someone who can do more. For that reason, I wouldn't mind Jeff Carter who would be a much bigger presence in the middle.
jeff carter and phil kessel would be a disaster, Carter is not a playmaker, he is a goal scorer, similar to kessel and JVR.

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04-17-2013, 08:25 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
Bozak isn't the assist man on that line. Kessel obviously is due his style of play.

.
Clearly. He has two wingers very capable of scoring goals, and as the centre he is in the BEST position to distribute the puck to either one of them, and yet he gets a disproportionately high number of secondary assists as opposed to primary assists.

He SHOULD be the "assist man" on that line, he's just not a good enough player to do so. He's essentially a so-so goal scorer, a so-so playmaker, who lacks size and is decent defensively but not great. It'd be one thing if he was bringing Bergeron/Toews/Backes/etc calibre defensive play, but he's not.

Bozak, aside from FO ability, brings absolutely nothing to the table that is considered above average. He's Matt Stajan 2.0, with slightly less offence and a slightly better ability of not getting knocked over every 5 seconds. He should not be on a 1st line in the NHL, he rides the coattails of his linemates to rack up his still limited number of points. He would be a far more effective player in a 3rd line role.

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04-17-2013, 11:15 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Clearly. He has two wingers very capable of scoring goals, and as the centre he is in the BEST position to distribute the puck to either one of them, and yet he gets a disproportionately high number of secondary assists as opposed to primary assists.

He SHOULD be the "assist man" on that line, he's just not a good enough player to do so. He's essentially a so-so goal scorer, a so-so playmaker, who lacks size and is decent defensively but not great. It'd be one thing if he was bringing Bergeron/Toews/Backes/etc calibre defensive play, but he's not.

Bozak, aside from FO ability, brings absolutely nothing to the table that is considered above average. He's Matt Stajan 2.0, with slightly less offence and a slightly better ability of not getting knocked over every 5 seconds. He should not be on a 1st line in the NHL, he rides the coattails of his linemates to rack up his still limited number of points. He would be a far more effective player in a 3rd line role.
Yeah, not sure how some are missing this. Not an elite defensive player, not a great playmaker either. He just wins faceoffs. Kessel is the sniper and playmaker on that line. That's the person effort needs to be spent on keeping. Bozak on that line can be replaced by a lot of people. Not that hard to ride on the coattails of Kessel and JVR/Lupul (depending on the lineup).

Wouldn't mind keeping him around if the team was going to use him as a third line center. Always good to have a guy who can win the faceoff on the PK as well.

Bozak's done what he needed to do. He's filled the spot until we could find better options. Seems like a simple process to me. Next season throw Kadri up there, put Grabo back on the second line, and have Bozak/McClement/Colborne be the third line center.

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04-17-2013, 02:39 PM
  #240
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the problem is bozak at $4.5-5 million. the problem is bozak at $4.5-5 million AND grabovski at $5.5 million.

imo nonis trades grabs and gives bozak a similar type of contract. from a long term perspective having xxxx-kadri-bozak-mclemment down the middle is pretty good. kadri could possibly become a number one center but he isnt there yet.

i suspect next season might be bozak-kadri-mclemment-hamilton down the middle. in an ideal world colborne could get his **** together and slot into the third line with frattin and mac/kulemin and provide secondary scoring but im not sure if he will be able to.

grabovski has had a pretty bad season objectively. i like him a lot and he works really hard but its obvious that carlyle doesnt love him and he isnt good enough offensively to be on top 6 and not good enough defensively to be on bottom 6. its obvious by how much ice time mclemment and bozak get on pk and how much time kadri and bozak get on pp.

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04-17-2013, 04:54 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by deuce457 View Post
jeff carter and phil kessel would be a disaster, Carter is not a playmaker, he is a goal scorer, similar to kessel and JVR.
Kessel is the playmaker. That's getting rather obvious as we see the guy play. He likes to maintain possession of the puck and distribute. I can't imagine that changing even if he gets an orthodox playmaker who he doesn't require.

I swear, I remember a Montreal poster suggest that Kessel would be better off with a shooting centre. You know, someone like Eric Staal or Steven Stamkos who likes to pot in goals. Otherwise, we need someone like Crosby (impossible) who can keep the puck in the opposition zone. Paul Stastny is way too passive for my likings and does not compliment Kessel at all.

He's a decent skater, but not a fast skater like Kessel. More so, he isn't an offensive threat on his own being an orthodox playmaker. That said, someone like Kulemin and Lupul would compliment him better since they can pot in goals and are more rugged. We need to make the top line a bit more stronger. With that in mind, Connolly would be a much better choice...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Clearly. He has two wingers very capable of scoring goals, and as the centre he is in the BEST position to distribute the puck to either one of them, and yet he gets a disproportionately high number of secondary assists as opposed to primary assists.

He SHOULD be the "assist man" on that line, he's just not a good enough player to do so. He's essentially a so-so goal scorer, a so-so playmaker, who lacks size and is decent defensively but not great. It'd be one thing if he was bringing Bergeron/Toews/Backes/etc calibre defensive play, but he's not.[...]
Best position is rather questionable. The Oilers were able to make it to the finals with a playmaker on the wing ( Hemsky). Horcoff is a decent distributor, but Hemsky was approaching elite in that regard. The same for the Cup winning team with their primary playmaker being a winger ( St Louis).

We need to get away from that idea that a centre has to be the primary distributor. Sundin actually performed better with playmaking wingers like Nik Antropov, Alexander Mogilny, etc rather garbage goal scorers like Jason Blake. In fact, Sundin would've thrived with someone like Phil Kessel.

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04-17-2013, 04:55 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by deuce457 View Post
jeff carter and phil kessel would be a disaster, Carter is not a playmaker, he is a goal scorer, similar to kessel and JVR.
Kessel is in no way similar to Carter.

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04-17-2013, 05:03 PM
  #243
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Very thin UFA market means that is market value. He'll get it.
So the market may be thin, teams don't have to sign U F As

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