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Phoenix LXXIV: Be Seeing You

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Old
04-15-2013, 11:52 PM
  #551
Llama19
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Originally Posted by Move the Coyotes View Post
I think one of the problems with Phoenix (aside from the fact they play in Glendale instead of Phoenix) was that they just didn't have the infrastructure in place to really support a team from day 1. When the Winnipeg Jets announced they were moving, they really didn't look into the markets to see which was the best and most sustainable. They just knew they had to get the hell out of Winnipeg after that season. Where they landed wasn't really so much of a priority.

I think Phoenix would have been successful had they been granted an expansion team rather than a team that had to relocate on the fly. They would have been able to put in the proper planning on what it would take to be successful in that market. Of course, not all expansion teams were successful (ie Atlanta but thats a whole 'nother story) but they would have had a better chance.
To quote:

"When Colangelo was designing America West Arena, he wanted to build the most intimate arena in the NBA. He also wanted to keep his options open if the NHL desired a franchise in the desert. He called NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman, who told him there was no future for hockey in the desert.

"A couple of years later, I get call from Gary telling me that the team from Winnipeg wants to move to Phoenix and a couple of guys would like to meet with me," Colangelo said."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns...s-coyotes.html

Be seeing you!

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:04 AM
  #552
AllByDesign
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6 million in 1966 would roughly equate to 86million today.

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04-16-2013, 12:07 AM
  #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
To quote:

"When Colangelo was designing America West Arena, he wanted to build the most intimate arena in the NBA. He also wanted to keep his options open if the NHL desired a franchise in the desert. He called NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman, who told him there was no future for hockey in the desert.

"A couple of years later, I get call from Gary telling me that the team from Winnipeg wants to move to Phoenix and a couple of guys would like to meet with me," Colangelo said."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns...s-coyotes.html

Be seeing you!

Bettman had nothing to do with the NHL when AWA opened let alone when they were designing it.

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:10 AM
  #554
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Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
To those of you who believe hockey can work in the outpost known as Glendale, I ask each of you to look at the attendance tonight! The Coyotes are playing perhaps the most pivotal game of the season against a division rival, a win gives them all kinds of hope, a loss almost eliminates them from contention. Yet despite the gravity of the situation the building is 2/3 full if that! This folks is the exact reason why this team cannot continue to operate in an environment that does not support the home team! Enjoy the game, those of you who are the true fans! To those who somehow believe this is good market, look around tonight, this is the best proof yet that the team needs to find a new home!
Really? You're going with the attendance now? Do we have an owner yet? Liepold said we needed an owner to stay, he didn't say anything about attendance. Which is it?

-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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04-16-2013, 12:25 AM
  #555
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Originally Posted by AllByDesign View Post
6 million in 1966 would roughly
equate to 86million today.
... Im coming up with $42.5M n' change Dang ye!


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Old
04-16-2013, 12:31 AM
  #556
AllByDesign
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... Im coming up with $42.5M n' change Dang ye!

Nothing like a good bear fight, Killion. It's a little known fact that bears generally fight like this over the Leafs/Canadiens rivalry. The lashing out of anger usually stems from a barb in reference to the last time the Leafs won the cup.

Nature sure is a strange phenomenon.

That being said, I stand corrected. You are correct.


Last edited by AllByDesign: 04-16-2013 at 12:37 AM.
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Old
04-16-2013, 12:36 AM
  #557
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Random points:

13,094 at the Job tonight
Now they go on a 3 game road trip St Louis, Chicago, and Detroit.
They are 4 points out of the 8th seed.
No RFP on the Glendale site

So we could see them eliminated in the next 3 games rendering the last 2 at home meaningless.

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:51 AM
  #558
Killion
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Originally Posted by AllByDesign View Post
That being said, I stand corrected. You are correct.
Yep. You doubled it somehow.


Last edited by Killion: 04-16-2013 at 01:29 AM.
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Old
04-16-2013, 01:32 AM
  #559
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Just to be ON TOPIC with Business of Hockey, would you buy a team with those financial numbers? Not sure, not sure at all!

http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/coyo...ncial-history/

And it's not me who advance those...

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Old
04-16-2013, 02:53 AM
  #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epo View Post
Bettman had nothing to do with the NHL when AWA opened let alone when they were designing it.
Some people tend to ignore little details such as that.....

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04-16-2013, 02:56 AM
  #561
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Thats correct TL. Enterprise Fund. Check #Ncc 1701
To Boldly Go Where No Municipality Has Gone Before...



Engage....

*still trying to catch up huh?

Still living in the past, eh????

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04-16-2013, 04:13 AM
  #562
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Here's my "$170 millon" question to the experts on the BOF board, say Bettman decides to pull the plug on the Coyotes after this season, and for some reason he decides to save both QC and Seattle for expansion. Now which city do you think would be best suited for the Coyotes to go to?

Before you reply, keep in mind that the Coyotes will most likely have to remain in the Western Conference. (no ETZ cities)

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Old
04-16-2013, 05:03 AM
  #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Random points:

13,094 at the Job tonight
Now they go on a 3 game road trip St Louis, Chicago, and Detroit.
They are 4 points out of the 8th seed.
No RFP on the Glendale site

So we could see them eliminated in the next 3 games rendering the last 2 at home meaningless.
Imagine if they really are eliminated already by the time they get back home.... if the league already knows they're moving, it paradoxically might actually make sense to announce that to increase attendance at the last two games.

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Old
04-16-2013, 05:09 AM
  #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Louis View Post
Here's my "$170 millon" question to the experts on the BOF board, say Bettman decides to pull the plug on the Coyotes after this season, and for some reason he decides to save both QC and Seattle for expansion. Now which city do you think would be best suited for the Coyotes to go to?

Before you reply, keep in mind that the Coyotes will most likely have to remain in the Western Conference. (no ETZ cities)
There really are almost no options, if you believe the league's stated formula of needing owner, building, and market. Even greater Toronto brings up a big problem for the league with a move from Phoenix, although not for expansion or a move from some other city: they had to fight in court with everything they had to keep this team from moving to Hamilton against their wishes. To turn around now and say "never mind" would embarrass even this league. I hope Hamilton or SO get a team soon, but there's no way they're getting this one. Other markets either don't have an interested owner, a building, or a building on the way. There are so few options available to the NHL that if they don't think Seattle or QC are ready yet, they might be stuck staying in Glendale and swallowing the losses for another year or two.

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Old
04-16-2013, 06:27 AM
  #565
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
Really? You're going with the attendance now? Do we have an owner yet? Liepold said we needed an owner to stay, he didn't say anything about attendance. Which is it?

-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Well attendance is one of the metrics the NHL needs and looks at.


]To paraphrase GB after the Thrashers sale: Not coming to games is a funny way for fans to show their support for a team and promote someone buying the team.

Just sayin.

Here's the actual quote:

Quote:
Demonstrating your dissatisfaction by not going to games is an interesting strategy. Itís your absolute right. But if it becomes a turnoff for anybody who might want to buy the franchise, the long-term consequences could be severe

http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-bl...hrashers-fans/

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Old
04-16-2013, 06:44 AM
  #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildGopher View Post
There really are almost no options, if you believe the league's stated formula of needing owner, building, and market. Even greater Toronto brings up a big problem for the league with a move from Phoenix, although not for expansion or a move from some other city: they had to fight in court with everything they had to keep this team from moving to Hamilton against their wishes. To turn around now and say "never mind" would embarrass even this league. I hope Hamilton or SO get a team soon, but there's no way they're getting this one. Other markets either don't have an interested owner, a building, or a building on the way. There are so few options available to the NHL that if they don't think Seattle or QC are ready yet, they might be stuck staying in Glendale and swallowing the losses for another year or two.
Really, by waiting so late and creating a very short turnaround time, the game at that point becomes a buyer's market because there's so few interested parties that can be ready to host an NHL team in a few months. If you're the potential Quebec owner, you better have some good insider information on how prepared Seattle are to bid, because if you can find out they don't plan on putting in a serious offer, you don't have to pay the NHL what they want to get from you. Where else are they going to go?

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04-16-2013, 08:37 AM
  #567
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Originally Posted by WildGopher View Post
I believe it was $6 million. Privately paid for, later given to the Metropolitan Sports Commission. Quite a good rink for that price, too. Great sight lines, good, hard ice. Elements of it were copied in the Detroit, NY Islanders and SJ Sharks arenas built later. For anyone feeling nostalgic about the old Met, you need to get yourself down to a minor league game at Cincinatti's US Bank Arena, if it's still called that. Built 9 years later, so it has luxury boxes built along the top, but otherwise built on virtually the identical blueprints, and by the same construction company as the old Met in Minnesota. I've been there, and sat in the parallel sections to where I sat at the Met and the feeling is amazing. And when the Cyclones (ECHL team, I believe) would score a goal, the accoustics of the crowd noise would replicate what you'd hear and remember at the Met. That rink even started out with the same patterned white and colored seats the old Met had - you can find pictures on-line, but most recently had the red seats of the later Met. For those who have similar memories of Maple Leaf Gardens, head to the north side of Cincinnati to take in an event at Cincinnati Gardens, similarly patterned after the original in Toronto. Wander around and you'll feel like you're in MLG before the upper end decks were added. Great memories in both rinks. Worth a trip if you miss those old barns.
Correct! It was a fabulous building! A seat in the very back row was as good as any other in the arena! The building had a capacity of 16,000 and therein was the issue for the ownership. Another tidbit which is widely known, but of interest given todays prices, the cost of the franchise was $2MM ! The original owners were all involved in the ownership of the Minneapolis Bruins (bruins farm team) prior to their landing the Minnesota North stars franchise.

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04-16-2013, 08:43 AM
  #568
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
Really? You're going with the attendance now? Do we have an owner yet? Liepold said we needed an owner to stay, he didn't say anything about attendance. Which is it?

-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Id say both are serious problems! No owner means the franchise is leaving! Low attendance means no owner will ever emerge. But yet you deny both realities!


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 04-16-2013 at 08:52 AM. Reason: ...
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04-16-2013, 09:42 AM
  #569
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Really, by waiting so late and creating a very short turnaround time, the game at that point becomes a buyer's market because there's so few interested parties that can be ready to host an NHL team in a few months. If you're the potential Quebec owner, you better have some good insider information on how prepared Seattle are to bid, because if you can find out they don't plan on putting in a serious offer, you don't have to pay the NHL what they want to get from you. Where else are they going to go?
Yes, its an interesting thing to consider. Its just possible PKP's playing hardball with Bettman & the NHL, though to what extent if at all is difficult to imagine let alone ascertain. He clearly wants an NHL franchise and in a big way. As QC is app the same size as Winnipeg, I cant imagine the league would want to ding him for much more than what they paid including the Relo Fee, though I suppose they might tack on a bit more. Just no idea really. We know that the old Colisee's been upgraded, new boards, glass, mechanicals & so on, completed last summer. Peladeau also stepped away from the Chairmanship of Quebecor a few months ago, claiming he wanted to devote more time to other interests, so I suppose if one follows those events & activities, certainly gives credence to the suggestion that QC will soon be home to the Coyotes. I dont know. Maybe theres been blowback from the Canadian franchises, NBC, is it price (?), perhaps another unknown market....

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04-16-2013, 10:01 AM
  #570
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Yes, its an interesting thing to consider. Its just possible PKP's playing hardball with Bettman & the NHL, though to what extent if at all is difficult to imagine let alone ascertain.
Very dangerous game to be playing with Bettman. You get Gary mad and he just might take his ball and go home and never come knocking on your doorstep again.

There is a "fair" price to be paid based on market and history of recent sales and I'm sure ( well, not really, but you would hope ) that PKP and Bettman are behaving like gentlemen and will come to an agreement, if they already haven't, for a team in QC.

Push too hard and it can backfire on both sides.

NHL asks for too much, they risk owning a team that has no home or at least a home that is very expensive to stay in.

PKP pushes for too little, and like I said, Gary might just go away in a tiff and sell the team to someone else.

A fine balance needs to be struck.

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04-16-2013, 10:01 AM
  #571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllByDesign View Post
6 million in 1966 would roughly equate to 86million today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... Im coming up with $42.5M n' change Dang ye!
$42.5 is the correct number or there abouts.

I'm getting $41.8MM

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:29 AM
  #572
Killion
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$42.5 is the correct number or there
abouts. I'm getting $41.8MM
Correct cheswick. I believe by the light of a Lava Lamp our Bruins
loving fan up there mistook his broken DVD remote for a calculator.


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04-16-2013, 10:56 AM
  #573
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Originally Posted by calmdown View Post
Just to be ON TOPIC with Business of Hockey, would you buy a team with those financial numbers? Not sure, not sure at all!

http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/coyo...ncial-history/

And it's not me who advance those...
1) you're a few days late
2) all numbers discussed there are for arena management, not the team
3) who knows what's it "general & administrative", which blends both non-event arena maintenance costs but also all salaries and other fees that AMG (Moyes) and subsequently the NHL were charged (or charged themselves).

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04-16-2013, 11:28 AM
  #574
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
$42.5 is the correct number or there abouts.

I'm getting $41.8MM

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi
But that is using inflation numbers, not what it would be worth if you had invested it in say government bonds, corporate bonds, etc.

Even a small change in interest rate used can lead to a big difference in amounts due to the long time period.

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04-16-2013, 11:34 AM
  #575
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Originally Posted by Mike Louis View Post
Here's my "$170 millon" question to the experts on the BOF board, say Bettman decides to pull the plug on the Coyotes after this season, and for some reason he decides to save both QC and Seattle for expansion. Now which city do you think would be best suited for the Coyotes to go to?

Before you reply, keep in mind that the Coyotes will most likely have to remain in the Western Conference. (no ETZ cities)
Looking at only cities outside the ETZ I'll guess one of Houston, Portland, Milwaukee, or Las Vegas.

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