HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

How would you rank our defensemen?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-16-2013, 08:10 AM
  #1
cookie
Fresh From The Oven
 
cookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oven then stomach
Country: Japan
Posts: 1,859
vCash: 500
How would you rank our defensemen?

As an extension to the forward ranking thread, how would you rank the leafs' d-men?

Phaneuf is our captain and IMO our best defenseman facing and thriving against the toughest competition. However, after him, there is a lot of mixup. Our defensive system and our goalie have helped highlight how great our defense corps has been this season.
  • Franson's played really well this season doing everything except fighting
  • Fraser's been solid, hitting and fighting and clearing the front of the net
  • Gunnarsson's been solid but unspectacular, with his injury not greatly affecting his play
And then we have the rest:
  • RoB had a bad game recently, but has played really well defensively
  • Liles has been unfairly sat IMO. Still has the same defensive weaknesses he has had throughout his career, but his skating and passing are quite helpful
  • Gardiner is not playing like he was in his rookie year. Takes too long to make a play and makes errors
  • Kostka has been assigned roles over his head--he'd be an amazing second pairing or third pairing defenseman
  • Same with Holzer, except less offense than Kostka and more grittiness
For me the rankings are:
  1. Phaneuf
  2. Franson
  3. Liles
  4. Gunnarsson
  5. Fraser
  6. RoByrne
  7. Gardiner
  8. Kostka
  9. Holzer

cookie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 08:13 AM
  #2
blasted_Sabre
Global Moderator
Warden of the North
 
blasted_Sabre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Muskoka
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,067
vCash: 500
When healthy

Phaneuf
Gunnarson
Franson
Liles
Fraser
Gardiner
ROB

Gardiner of course has the potential to rise dramatically. He just need to figure out defense.

blasted_Sabre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 08:14 AM
  #3
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,758
vCash: 500
This year:
Phaneuf

Gunnarsson


Franson
Fraser
Gardiner
Kostka
Liles
ROB




Holzer

Anth93 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 08:18 AM
  #4
416Leafer
Registered User
 
416Leafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,271
vCash: 500
I don't know how you can rank Franson second...

Franson is good, in his role. But he is being used against the weakest forwards the other teams have to offer, he has the lowest QoC on the team (aside from Gardiner who's only played a handful of games).

So yea, he is a very effective 3rd pairing defenceman. But how do you think he would look on the top pairing with Phaneuf and how would Gunnarson look on the 3rd pairing? Franson would look terrible and out of place, while Gunnarson would look fabulous.

416Leafer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 09:19 AM
  #5
calcal798
Registered User
 
calcal798's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,673
vCash: 500
Phaneuf
Gunnarson
Franson
Fraser
Liles
Gardiner
ROB

Should not be long before Gardiner becomes the guy between Phaneuf and Gunnarson in that ranking. He had a good game saturday, he just needs to do that consistently.

I think when Gardiner makes that jump, it will be the end of Liles as a Maple Leaf (I hope).

calcal798 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 09:47 AM
  #6
LeftTackle51
Registered User
 
LeftTackle51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 710
vCash: 500
Costco
Holzer
Komi
Gards
Reilly
Costco

LeftTackle51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 09:54 AM
  #7
BonMorrison
Roman Josi is bae.
 
BonMorrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,036
vCash: 500
Phaneuf

Gunnarsson
Fraser
Franson
Liles

Gardiner
O'Byrne


Kostka




Holzer

BonMorrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 09:56 AM
  #8
Michael Gary Scott
Toronto Maple Tron's
 
Michael Gary Scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,075
vCash: 500
Have to take into consideration where each player is playing and who theyre playing against. No question Dion has been the #1, I'd even go as far as tossing him a couple Norris votes. After that its Gunnarsson, and thats even after him being injured and unable to play at 100% this year.

Further on down the list its a toss up. Carlyle has done a good job of playing players to their capabilities (at least in the past 25 games). Franson and Fraser are both playing beyond themselves, but because theyre being used where they can succeed. Liles has been pretty good, but not great. Gardiner has started to rev up a bit here in the past few games and showing his old self again, but he hasnt played enough to make a definitive decision. Kostka was a nice story for training camp, on a team that wasnt expected to go anywhere, but hes not an NHL defenceman. Or at the most hes a tweener. And ROB has been meh. Quiet in his first few games but started to show his old Av self in last nights game.

Phaneuf
Gunnarsson
Franson/Fraser
Gardiner
Liles





Kostka

Michael Gary Scott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 09:56 AM
  #9
TieClark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,115
vCash: 500
Phaneuf

-Large Gap-

Franson
Liles
Fraser
Gardiner
O'Byrne

-Large Gap-

Kostka
Gunnarsson
Holzer


Anyone that has Gunnarsson anywhere near the top has no idea what they're watching

TieClark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 09:57 AM
  #10
Diatomic
Naz is a bad bad boy
 
Diatomic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Air Canada Centre
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,689
vCash: 500
Phaneuf
Franson
Liles
Gunnarsson
Gardiner
Fraser
RoByrne
Kostka
Holzer

Diatomic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 09:58 AM
  #11
Diatomic
Naz is a bad bad boy
 
Diatomic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Air Canada Centre
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Phaneuf

-Large Gap-

Franson
Liles
Fraser
Gardiner
O'Byrne

-Large Gap-

Kostka
Gunnarsson
Holzer


Anyone that has Gunnarsson anywhere near the top has no idea what they're watching
He definitely isn't a top2 D-man but your putting him with trash like Kostka and Holzer? Disrespect

Diatomic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 10:01 AM
  #12
RhinoD
Registered User
 
RhinoD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Goldsboro, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 34
vCash: 500
Captain - top of the list and its not close....


Fraser
Franson
Gunnarson
Liles
O'Byrne (limited sample size)
Gardiner
Kostka
Holzer

RhinoD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 10:04 AM
  #13
cynicism
Registered User
 
cynicism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,540
vCash: 500
Phaneuf: Playing very well, but I think naming him captain was the wrong move at the time. His play has improved.

Liles: Seems to have recovered from his concussion, skates well, sees the ice well, competes. Size is a bit of concern.

Franson: Needs to work more on the defensive side of things.

Gardiner: Keeper. He's learning, young d-men struggle at times. But he'll be a great d-man in a couple of years if he keeps developping.

Gunnar: Solid, decent, unremarkable but a keeper.

Fraser/O'Byrne: I don't see the point of playing them both in the same game.

Kostka: A journeyman, nothing special.

Holzer: Needs a lot of work, if his place in the roster is as a 7th d-man, then I'm fine with it.

cynicism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 10:05 AM
  #14
TieClark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsWantStanley View Post
He definitely isn't a top2 D-man but your putting him with trash like Kostka and Holzer? Disrespect
He is absolutely brutal.

TieClark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 10:07 AM
  #15
Diatomic
Naz is a bad bad boy
 
Diatomic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Air Canada Centre
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,689
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicism View Post
Phaneuf: Playing very well, but I think naming him captain was the wrong move at the time. His play has improved.

Liles: Seems to have recovered from his concussion, skates well, sees the ice well, competes. Size is a bit of concern.

Franson: Needs to work more on the defensive side of things.

Gardiner: Keeper. He's learning, young d-men struggle at times. But he'll be a great d-man in a couple of years if he keeps developping.

Gunnar: Solid, decent, unremarkable but a keeper.

Fraser/O'Byrne: I don't see the point of playing them both in the same game.

Kostka: A journeyman, nothing special.

Holzer: Needs a lot of work, if his place in the roster is as a 7th d-man, then I'm fine with it.
This was SPOT ON. Especially the Fraser/O'Byrne: I don't see the point of playing them both in the same game.

Diatomic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 10:07 AM
  #16
RhinoD
Registered User
 
RhinoD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Goldsboro, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 34
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicism View Post
Phaneuf: Playing very well, but I think naming him captain was the wrong move at the time. His play has improved.

Liles: Seems to have recovered from his concussion, skates well, sees the ice well, competes. Size is a bit of concern.

Franson: Needs to work more on the defensive side of things.

Gardiner: Keeper. He's learning, young d-men struggle at times. But he'll be a great d-man in a couple of years if he keeps developping.

Gunnar: Solid, decent, unremarkable but a keeper.

Fraser/O'Byrne: I don't see the point of playing them both in the same game.

Kostka: A journeyman, nothing special.

Holzer: Needs a lot of work, if his place in the roster is as a 7th d-man, then I'm fine with it.
This list is good analysis, but not close to who have been the best this year... Gardiner has potential (as everyone has seen) but he has been downright dreadful defensively at times.

RhinoD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 10:22 AM
  #17
BonMorrison
Roman Josi is bae.
 
BonMorrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Phaneuf

-Large Gap-

Franson
Liles
Fraser
Gardiner
O'Byrne

-Large Gap-

Kostka
Gunnarsson
Holzer


Anyone that has Gunnarsson anywhere near the top has no idea what they're watching
You're the only one to list Gunnarsson at the bottom yet everyone else has no idea what they're watching apparently.

K.

BonMorrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 10:28 AM
  #18
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,648
vCash: 500
1. Phaneuf
2. Gardiner
3. Gunnarsson
4. Franson
5. Liles
6. Fraser
7. O'Byrne
8. Kostks

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 10:28 AM
  #19
Jtabo
Registered User
 
Jtabo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greater Toronto Area
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,658
vCash: 500
Based solely on their play this year:

Phaneuf
Franson
Fraser
Gunnarson
Liles
O'Byrne
Gardiner
Kostka
Holzer


Where I think the ranks could be down the road:

Phaneuf
Gardiner
Franson
Gunnarson
Fraser
Holzer
Liles
OByrne
Kostka

Jtabo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 10:35 AM
  #20
Anth93
Registered User
 
Anth93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Phaneuf

-Large Gap-

Franson
Liles
Fraser
Gardiner
O'Byrne

-Large Gap-

Kostka
Gunnarsson
Holzer


Anyone that has Gunnarsson anywhere near the top has no idea what they're watching
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhinoD View Post
Captain - top of the list and its not close....


Fraser
Franson
Gunnarson
Liles
O'Byrne (limited sample size)
Gardiner
Kostka
Holzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynicism View Post
Phaneuf: Playing very well, but I think naming him captain was the wrong move at the time. His play has improved.

Liles: Seems to have recovered from his concussion, skates well, sees the ice well, competes. Size is a bit of concern.

Franson: Needs to work more on the defensive side of things.

Gardiner: Keeper. He's learning, young d-men struggle at times. But he'll be a great d-man in a couple of years if he keeps developping.

Gunnar: Solid, decent, unremarkable but a keeper.

Fraser/O'Byrne: I don't see the point of playing them both in the same game.

Kostka: A journeyman, nothing special.

Holzer: Needs a lot of work, if his place in the roster is as a 7th d-man, then I'm fine with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
1. Phaneuf
2. Gardiner
3. Gunnarsson
4. Franson
5. Liles
6. Fraser
7. O'Byrne
8. Kostks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtabo View Post
Based solely on their play this year:

Phaneuf
Franson
Fraser
Gunnarson
Liles
O'Byrne
Gardiner
Kostka
Holzer


Where I think the ranks could be down the road:

Phaneuf
Gardiner
Franson
Gunnarson

Fraser
Holzer
Liles
OByrne
Kostka
Ladies and gentlemen, the most underrated Maple Leaf.

Anth93 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 10:37 AM
  #21
HockeyGuruPitka
Registered User
 
HockeyGuruPitka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,111
vCash: 500
Phaneuf

Gunnarsson
Franson
Fraser

Liles
Gardiner
ROB
Kostka

HockeyGuruPitka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 10:43 AM
  #22
416Leafer
Registered User
 
416Leafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,271
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Ladies and gentlemen, the most underrated Maple Leaf.
Yep. Gunnarson plays effectively on the top pairing, Franson plays effectively on the 3rd pairing. And then everyones rankings have Franson as our 2nd best defenceman.

If he was the 2nd best defenceman, he'd be getting more ice-time, and he'd be used against tougher competition from the opposing teams. He IS have a very good year (by his standards), and has been contributing offensively. But he's not playing key minutes, which makes a huge difference.

416Leafer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 10:49 AM
  #23
ACC1224
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 31,504
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Phaneuf

-Large Gap-

Franson
Liles
Fraser
Gardiner
O'Byrne

-Large Gap-

Kostka
Gunnarsson
Holzer


Anyone that has Gunnarsson anywhere near the top has no idea what they're watching
This is pretty much it for me. Only change I'd swap Gunnar with Kostka.

ACC1224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 11:40 AM
  #24
Jtabo
Registered User
 
Jtabo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greater Toronto Area
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,658
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Ladies and gentlemen, the most underrated Maple Leaf.
How is me having him 4th in both my lists underrating him? Seems love your over rating him. He is what he is, a 2nd pair dman.

Jtabo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2013, 02:37 PM
  #25
Falon
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Posts: 1,776
vCash: 500
1 - Phaneuf

2 - Gardiner (when on his game, has shown flashes this year, but the lockout and injuries slowed his progress a bit. He'll get there though, he's only 22)

3 - Gunnarson - perfect number 3 guy who can play number 2 in a pinch. Steady, good puck mover, reliable. Good at everything, great at nothing. Still, fantastic pick for the 7th round.

4 - Franson - last season, he was a 5/6 defenseman, he has improved in every aspect and I am now completely comfortable with him in the top 4. Good puck mover who is learning to use his body more thanks to playing with Fraser.

5 - Fraser - A gem of a find for a career AHLer. Solid, stay at home presence. Might be able to play in the top 4 like Franson, and does on occasion, but for now is a solid #5

6 - Liles - offensive defenseman who moves the puck very well. Little physicality due to size and sometimes gets caught out of position. Will likely be traded as soon as Reilly is ready.

7 - O'byrne, Holzer, Kostka - depth defensemen who can play in the #6 spot, just not everyday, with Holzer the only one signed beyond this season.

Falon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:58 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.