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PHX - EDM (Big Trade)

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Old
04-15-2013, 11:48 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Phoenix might need to change their system a bit, but there's no evidence to suggest that there is no way Phoenix can improve if they bring in Eberle instead of Hanzal.
You are not familiar with Hanzal and his role/importance in the slightest. This thread has run its course.

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OEL is untouchable. the only way id see him going to edmonton is if they traded there 1 st rounder this year and hall straight for OEL
No sale.

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04-15-2013, 11:53 PM
  #52
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You are not familiar with Hanzal and his role/importance in the slightest. This thread has run its course.
Yes I am. I am also familiar with the fact that sometimes, for teams to improve, they need to move key pieces and change things a bit. I get it, you want Hanzal to have your babies, but let`s be real here. Teams have moved on from pieces more important than Hanzal and managed to adapt and survive.

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04-15-2013, 11:55 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Yes I am. I am also familiar with the fact that sometimes, for teams to improve, they need to move key pieces and change things a bit.
A team that just went to the conference finals and won their division does not need to trade two signed core pieces away. That's video game talk and you know it.

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04-16-2013, 12:02 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Happy Hallidays View Post
Edmonton's BOLD Move

Just throwing this idea out there

Phoenix

OEL/Yandle
Hanzal
Gordon

for

Edmonton

1 of Eberle/Yakupov
Gagner
2nd 2013

Thoughts? To much to little? Gives Phoenix some much needed scoring and some star power to sell there team. Gives Edmonton a top pairing puck moving defensman and hulking #2C who is defensively responsible. The forward holes could hopefully be filled through FA.
Dont think so on Phoenix end that alone might get you Yandle, That's about it.

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04-16-2013, 12:03 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
A team that just went to the conference finals and won their division does not need to trade two signed core pieces away. That's video game talk and you know it.
You are ignoring one huge factor. That this is not the same team that went to the conference final. Your goalie has been proven to have had a hot season, and most importantly, you lost your only major offensive threat in Whitney. To replace that, you need to move from an area of strength. That`s what smart GM`s do. Its not "video game talk". Its talk for people who understand the basics of the business of the game. Let's be honest here. The Coyotes have young defensemen ready to step in and fill in for Yandle (at least somewhat). They have some big centers to fill in for Hanzal (again, at least somewhat, they aren't monsters like Hanzal). What they don't have, is legitimate top line players or prospects who might become them. They'll need to trade for them if they want them. And no team that doesn't score can be a winner, just like no team that can only score and not defend will be a winner.

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04-16-2013, 12:04 AM
  #56
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Dont think so on Phoenix end that alone might get you Yandle, That's about it.
Since when is Yandle Erik Karlsson or Shea Weber?

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04-16-2013, 12:13 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
The Coyotes have young defensemen ready to step in and fill in for Yandle (at least somewhat). They have some big centers to fill in for Hanzal (again, at least somewhat, they aren't monsters like Hanzal).
Yes, our D pool is one of the best in the league. But we're simply not the type that rushes prospects. And who exactly are our young big centers to fill in for Hanzal? Our center depth is tenuous enough as it is *with* him. Only one I can think of is Samuelsson, but although he's developing, he hasn't even played a single day in the AHL. The Gretzky days of throwing prospects immediately to the NHL are over - we develop them nice and slow.

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04-16-2013, 12:15 AM
  #58
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Maloney would prefer to deal Yandle to an Eastern Conference team. Maloney will look to take advantage of the more desperate Oilers to leverage the best return. Including Hanzel is very unlikely given the lack of depth at C and how instrumental he is in all three zones. Until Samuellson is capable of taking over that shutdown role Hanzel will be a mainstay on the Coyote roster. Maloney holds the cards. Eberle is an interesting piece but I suspect Maloney is looking for a more well rounded Center than Gagner; especially with Vermette already on the squad. Really the whole Gagner to Phoenix thing has been discussed to death on any of the last 300 threads on the subject.

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04-16-2013, 12:25 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Being ranked above the Oilers in goals for is no feat this year, so I don't see how that's a plus for Phoenix. If you're trying to argue that Phoenix doesn't need help scoring, sorry man, you're out to lunch.

Gagner has actually developed his defensive play very well this year. He's been on the second pk unit quite often, and say what you want, but the Oilers pk has been pretty good this year. You can fantasize about what you think the Oiler players would score on Phoenix, but the fact remains that they would be top line players on the Coyotes. You're right, Eberle is on a 56 point per game pace. And he's had a bad year. What happens when he turns it around again? He could very well be back to a ppg winger. I get it if you don't watch the Oilers, they've been bad for years so I understand why only Oiler fans would watch their games, but to suggest that Eberle and Gagner wouldn't be good additions is blind.
they are not good fits for the phoenox coyotes. They are expensive and will have a system shock when they try to fit in with the game that tippett plays. sure they could end up actually fitting well, but then why should the Coyotes take the risk? These two players are not ideal players for phoenix to target. If they are to trade Yandle and Hanzal, which alone would be cutting your finger off to make a papercut stop hurting, then it would be for someone like RoR +, Benn, etc.

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04-16-2013, 12:25 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by IPreferPi View Post
Yes, our D pool is one of the best in the league. But we're simply not the type that rushes prospects. And who exactly are our young big centers to fill in for Hanzal? Our center depth is tenuous enough as it is *with* him. Only one I can think of is Samuelsson, but although he's developing, he hasn't even played a single day in the AHL. The Gretzky days of throwing prospects immediately to the NHL are over - we develop them nice and slow.
I wouldn't suggest that Samuellson is ready yet. Great prospect, but he needs time. Gagner - top six center, lots of creativity and skill, very good playmaker and plays hard nightly. Vermette - solid number two center, better defensively than Gagner, slightly lower offensive skill, but either way, a solid 1-2 punch up the middle, especially with wingers like Eberle and Vrbata. Chipchura is a decent bottom six. You might need a bottom line center, but let's be honest, you'd likely need that with or without this deal. Gagner doesn't replace Hanzal's size, that's evident, but he'd give a boost to your top line.

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04-16-2013, 12:27 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by hbk View Post
Maloney would prefer to deal Yandle to an Eastern Conference team. Maloney will look to take advantage of the more desperate Oilers to leverage the best return. Including Hanzel is very unlikely given the lack of depth at C and how instrumental he is in all three zones. Until Samuellson is capable of taking over that shutdown role Hanzel will be a mainstay on the Coyote roster. Maloney holds the cards. Eberle is an interesting piece but I suspect Maloney is looking for a more well rounded Center than Gagner; especially with Vermette already on the squad. Really the whole Gagner to Phoenix thing has been discussed to death on any of the last 300 threads on the subject.
I don't think that this is really a huge concern for NHL GM's.

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04-16-2013, 12:27 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by VoicexOfxReason View Post
they are not good fits for the phoenox coyotes. They are expensive and will have a system shock when they try to fit in with the game that tippett plays. sure they could end up actually fitting well, but then why should the Coyotes take the risk? These two players are not ideal players for phoenix to target. If they are to trade Yandle and Hanzal, which alone would be cutting your finger off to make a papercut stop hurting, then it would be for someone like RoR +, Benn, etc.
I think Eberle is a good fit on any NHL team. Gagner isn't as one dimensional as you guys seem to think either.

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04-16-2013, 12:35 AM
  #63
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Let me explain it to you. There's worth in a vacuum and there is actual worth to each team. Actual GMs that know what they are doing understand this concept, and don't assemble their rosters in a fantasy manner. Hanzal is crucial to Phoenix. Wears an A, chemistry with Vrbata, faceoffs, defense in a tough conference etc... If you swapped Hanzal for Eberle, the Coyotes are significantly worse. So while Hanzal may not be worth Eberle in trade in your eyes, he sure is worth more in Phoenix than Eberle would be. Unless the pieces coming back make the Coyotes net better, he won't be moved. Too important.
I actually agree with this. You seem a little condescending towards others in your previous posts but i agree with the general sentiment here. Hanzal is a do it all type of guy who fits Tippett's system perfectly. While Eberle probably has more value in general IMO, Hanzal holds more value to the Coyotes.

Also, OEL shouldn't be included in any proposals coming from the Oilers unless RNH is involved and even then, the Oilers would have to add.

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04-16-2013, 12:40 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
Yandle for Eberle + 2014 1st rounder
^sorry, that's too much for just Yandle....Phoenix has to add.

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04-16-2013, 12:42 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I wouldn't suggest that Samuellson is ready yet. Great prospect, but he needs time. Gagner - top six center, lots of creativity and skill, very good playmaker and plays hard nightly. Vermette - solid number two center, better defensively than Gagner, slightly lower offensive skill, but either way, a solid 1-2 punch up the middle, especially with wingers like Eberle and Vrbata. Chipchura is a decent bottom six. You might need a bottom line center, but let's be honest, you'd likely need that with or without this deal. Gagner doesn't replace Hanzal's size, that's evident, but he'd give a boost to your top line.
Vermette is barely a 2C, he's a 2C/3C tweener. Not really knocking him, he's a faceoff ace and solid all-around, but he's invisible on offense half the time. Gagner is not the 1C on the Oilers, and he doesn't really play against opposing teams top lines, so forgive me for being really skeptical that he can replicate his numbers this year if he had to play against tougher QoC. Disagree all you want, but the Yotes are not going to make that kind of a gamble in trading away a proven, consistent commodity like Hanzal.

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04-16-2013, 12:51 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I think Eberle is a good fit on any NHL team. Gagner isn't as one dimensional as you guys seem to think either.
He is a much better fit on Edmonton than Phoenix, however, just as Hanzal is probably a better fit for Phoenix than the Oilers. Yes i know he is everything Edmonton is coveting in a centre right now, but Maloney would be a fool to make this gamble.

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04-16-2013, 02:14 AM
  #67
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If the Oilers are looking to get a legit #2 C, we're likely going to have to package players to get it, not consider him an "add-on" to whatever other deal we're looking for.


Last edited by Mentallydull: 04-16-2013 at 02:21 AM.
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04-16-2013, 09:15 AM
  #68
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OEL I would say is absolutely unavailable. Edmonton would have to pay an absurd price that they weren't willing to pay, such as two of their Big 4. OEL is a better piece than any of Edmonton's big 4 IMO.

Yandle? Sure, he could be available. But either one of the big 4 would have to be included, or this years 1st round pick along with something else. Gagner + 2nd or Hemsky + 2nd simply won't get it done.

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04-16-2013, 09:27 AM
  #69
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Let's keep this simple: If you do not want to partake in the discussion, simply ignore the thread. This will be a topic that continues to pop up.

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04-16-2013, 09:54 AM
  #70
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OEL I would say is absolutely unavailable. Edmonton would have to pay an absurd price that they weren't willing to pay, such as two of their Big 4. OEL is a better piece than any of Edmonton's big 4 IMO.

Yandle? Sure, he could be available. But either one of the big 4 would have to be included, or this years 1st round pick along with something else. Gagner + 2nd or Hemsky + 2nd simply won't get it done.
The discussion in the thread has mostly been centered around Eberle for Yandle. We realize asking for OEL is like someone asking us for Hall. Laughable at best. I think the big disagreement here involves which side adds, Oil fans think Eberle has enough value to warrant adding Gagner and Hanzal. Coyotes fans aren't wanting to entertain moving Hanzal. Which is fair enough, he's great at what he does and that's why the Oilers would want him too. All in all, I think we can agree that Yandle and stuff for Eberle and stuff might be feasible, depending on what the extra stuff on each side is.

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04-16-2013, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
The discussion in the thread has mostly been centered around Eberle for Yandle. We realize asking for OEL is like someone asking us for Hall. Laughable at best. I think the big disagreement here involves which side adds, Oil fans think Eberle has enough value to warrant adding Gagner and Hanzal. Coyotes fans aren't wanting to entertain moving Hanzal. Which is fair enough, he's great at what he does and that's why the Oilers would want him too. All in all, I think we can agree that Yandle and stuff for Eberle and stuff might be feasible, depending on what the extra stuff on each side is.
I think that's accurate, no need to really have fans bicker back and forth about the particulars. The fact that Yandle to Edmonton keeps getting revisited shows the mutual interest.

OEL though is simply not a guy you move. He could be a Norris contender for the next 10+ years. You wouldn't move something like that where the best piece coming back is a winger, especially a smaller winger who's not the best defensively. Eberle is great, but OEL can play in all situations, match up well against the best in the league, and play 25+ minutes a night.

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04-16-2013, 11:39 AM
  #72
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stop trying to acquire yandle. he is not the solution, is a PP specialist who faces inconceivably easy competition

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04-16-2013, 11:43 AM
  #73
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stop trying to acquire yandle. he is not the solution, is a PP specialist who faces inconceivably easy competition
I came here looking for OEL. That got shut down haha.

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04-16-2013, 11:43 AM
  #74
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stop trying to acquire yandle. he is not the solution, is a PP specialist who faces inconceivably easy competition
You're making us look bad with dumb statements like this. He's an offensive d-man, that doesn't mean he's Marc Andre Bergeron. He's a legitimate top pairing guy, something we haven't had in years.

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04-16-2013, 11:45 AM
  #75
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You're making us look bad with dumb statements like this. He's an offensive d-man, that doesn't mean he's Marc Andre Bergeron. He's a legitimate top pairing guy, something we haven't had in years.
Yep. Yandle isn't going to win a Norris trophy, but he IS more than just a PP specialist. Quite a legitimate top pairing defenceman, he just doesn't bring enough to the table to be considered a #1 D.

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