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Old
04-16-2013, 12:22 PM
  #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post

I would do(saying we pick Nurse)

Couturier
Nurse
1st rounder
Mez(cap dump purposes only)

for

Weber
I wouldn't.

Coburn
(whoever we use the pick on)
Cousins

or

Laughton
(whoever we use the pick on)
1st 2014

Whichever package looks better to the Predators...

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:24 PM
  #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Nashville wanted Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, and a 1st not to match the OS last year. I can't see them settling for that package.
It was rumored Poile asked for Schenn+Couts back. I don't know how Voracek name gets thrown in there? I never saw any report of that.

Flyers offered

Read
Mez
1st rounder
two 2nd rounders
I believe a 3rd

For Weber

They countered with Couts+Schenn++

This was what Dreger said.

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04-16-2013, 12:25 PM
  #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I wouldn't.

Coburn
(whoever we use the pick on)
Cousins

or

Laughton
(whoever we use the pick on)
1st 2014

Whichever package looks better to the Predators...
Neither of these packages even make Poile think about dealing Weber. You have to make it worth his while(and the owners) to make a deal. Those deals don't come close.

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04-16-2013, 12:28 PM
  #554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I wouldn't.

Coburn
(whoever we use the pick on)
Cousins

or

Laughton
(whoever we use the pick on)
1st 2014

Whichever package looks better to the Predators...
Put yourself in Nashville's shoes, what would you want in return for Weber?

Voracek, Couturier or Schenn would have to be part of the package to even get them to listen. The question is, how bad do you want/need Weber? Looking at this team, I would give up just about anything for Weber. The Flyers can easily find forwards, but #1 defensemen? They aren't out there in UFA.

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04-16-2013, 12:32 PM
  #555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
It was rumored Poile asked for Schenn+Couts back. I don't know how Voracek name gets thrown in there? I never saw any report of that.

Read
Mez
1st rounder
two 2nd rounders
I believe a 3rd

For Weber

They countered with Couts+Schenn++

This was what Dreger said.
It comes from Cardchidi via the very reputable retired Global Moderator OurGocIsAnAwsomeGoc:

Quote:
Perspective:

according to a conversation i had with Sam Carchidi(Flyers beat) on twitter, the offer the Flyers made for Nashville NOT to match the OS(ie, we give you this, you give us our draft picks back)

Read, Voracek, Meszaros, Nashville keeps the first.

Nashville said "no even close," and countered with the same proposal, leaving out the first and ADDING Sean Couturier AND Brayden Schenn

So to give you an idea of the sum Nashville would demand, there you have it. It may be more than any team would pay, but that's what it would take.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...9&postcount=55

It looks like I remembered it incorrectly (there wasn't a 1st)--but according to him, it was Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, Read and Mezsaros.

EDIT: That may or may not be right, but I'd be surprised if Nashville offered Weber for Schenn + Couturier + futures.

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04-16-2013, 12:37 PM
  #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
It looks like I remembered it incorrectly (there wasn't a 1st)--but according to him, it was Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, Read and Mezsaros.
When I said I would give up almost anything for Weber, I wouldn't give that up.

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04-16-2013, 12:40 PM
  #557
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I have to say, I have never been a fan of Carchidi. He has been wrong more than he has been right. I don't fully trust his reports. I am not saying these because it disputes what I said either, he has been wrong many times. Or at least his "source" has been wrong.

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04-16-2013, 12:43 PM
  #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
When I said I would give up almost anything for Weber, I wouldn't give that up.
Yeah, I mean Voracek's value wasn't as high last year--but still, that's a crazy ask.

Assuming that only Jake and Giroux are untouchable at this point (and I think Voracek basically is), I think any package for Weber starts with ether:

B. Schenn + L. Schenn +

or

Couturier + 2013 1st +

Couturier + Coburn or Coburn + 2013 1st doesn't get it done, in my opinion, unless we're tacking additional significant assets on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I have to say, I have never been a fan of Carchidi. He has been wrong more than he has been right. I don't fully trust his reports. I am not saying these because it disputes what I said either, he has been wrong many times. Or at least his "source" has been wrong.
He's more likely to know the intricacies of the Flyers-Predators discussions than Dreger--right? I've never been impressed with Dreger's sources when it comes to the Flyers.

If Couturier and Schenn had been the two major pieces, I think the Flyers would have swapped one out and found a way to make a deal. Nashville's ask had to be insane in order for the Flyers to pass after getting Weber to sign the O.S. The above package makes sense, in that regard.

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04-16-2013, 12:43 PM
  #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Put yourself in Nashville's shoes, what would you want in return for Weber?

Voracek, Couturier or Schenn would have to be part of the package to even get them to listen. The question is, how bad do you want/need Weber? Looking at this team, I would give up just about anything for Weber. The Flyers can easily find forwards, but #1 defensemen? They aren't out there in UFA.
I'd want at least three firsts (two of which relatively proven), or if failing one of those 1sts, a roster player that can make an impact in my top 6 or top 4 immediately...

So basically the packages I said if not slightly more...

Really...

Coburn + 1st 2013 (top 10) + 1st 2014/Laughton + Cousins

That's a pretty awesome package.

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:57 PM
  #560
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Nashville's high demand on Weber also might have changed because coming into this year they were thought to be a cup contender even with losing Suter. So many variables, but we won't get him for a quantity package.

I believe the offer I said is pretty damn good. At least make them think about it

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04-16-2013, 01:01 PM
  #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Nashville's high demand on Weber also might have changed because coming into this year they were thought to be a cup contender even with losing Suter. So many variables, but we won't get him for a quantity package.

I believe the offer I said is pretty damn good. At least make them think about it
The difference was, last year they had a limited number of potential destinations--they were only going to get a full value return from a team that Weber was willing to re-sign with.

As of July, they will be free to trade him to whomever they choose. If what I sketched above was something close to their ask for Weber when he could go no where other than Philly (after he signed the O.S.), I can't imagine what it would be on an open market.

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04-16-2013, 01:14 PM
  #562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
The difference was, last year they had a limited number of potential destinations--they were only going to get a full value return from a team that Weber was willing to re-sign with.

As of July, they will be free to trade him to whomever they choose. If what I sketched above was something close to their ask for Weber when he could go no where other than Philly (after he signed the O.S.), I can't imagine what it would be on an open market.
Scary thought, but imagine Pittsburgh trading all of their young defensive prospects for Weber.

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04-16-2013, 01:25 PM
  #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Nashville's high demand on Weber also might have changed because coming into this year they were thought to be a cup contender even with losing Suter. So many variables, but we won't get him for a quantity package.
The Flyers or any team for that matter are not getting him for any package. Weber is not getting traded. Not for a very long time. I don't know why this is such a hard concept to grasp. The owner paid him pretty much out of his own pocket $26 million dollars. You don't buy a Ferrari to trade in it right away for a couple of volvos. If that money wasn't coming out of the owners personal finances it would be a different story. The matching of the offersheet was personal not a business decision so applications of value, financials, or even logic, as it was illogical for a franchise to match a contract almost the cost of its entire worth, are inconsequential in this situation.

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Old
04-16-2013, 01:29 PM
  #564
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I love Weber but honestly I'd rather just try to build through the draft than to give up all of our prospects, picks, and a good roster player for him. And with the salary cap going down next year I honestly don't think it's a good idea. We already have to buy out Briere just to get under the cap, we'd have to move out more players than it's worth to get Weber and fit in his salary. With an open market of teams they can trade him to, their asking price is going to be ridiculous. One guy doesn't make up an entire team and if he gets hurt we're still screwed. I'd rather draft a d-man in the 1st and a few more in the later rounds this year and develop the kids we already have.
Besides, I can't see them trading Weber after they just committed to that huge contract. They knew what they were getting themselves into when they matched.

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04-16-2013, 01:40 PM
  #565
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Another point to consider is, in a scenario where Florida picks Jones, would that make another young Dman like Kulikov or even Gudbranson potentially available?

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04-16-2013, 01:43 PM
  #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Scary thought, but imagine Pittsburgh trading all of their young defensive prospects for Weber.
how many of those prospects were drafted in the 2nd round.

EDIT: On the topic of Weber, i dont blame them for asking for a overpayment for Weber. I look at how some people value a guy like Coburn and what we could get for him if he was on the block. Whatever people think Coburn is worth just multiply that by quite a bit.
Many people know I am not a fan of Coburn's game. Some think he is underrated on this board? I think some people overrate the guy. Its not just this year hes been inconsistent to bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Another point to consider is, in a scenario where Florida picks Jones, would that make another young Dman like Kulikov or even Gudbranson potentially available?
I would really love to get either of those guys. The price would be pretty high. With 2 guys like that tho I think the Panthers either trade down or take Mckinnon IMO


Last edited by GoneFullHextall: 04-16-2013 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Coburn, not Weber
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Old
04-16-2013, 01:47 PM
  #567
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how many of those prospects were drafted in the 2nd round.
Pouliot- 1st
Despres- 1st
Maatta- 1st
Harrington- 2nd
Doumoulin- 2nd

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Old
04-16-2013, 01:51 PM
  #568
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Another point to consider is, in a scenario where Florida picks Jones, would that make another young Dman like Kulikov or even Gudbranson potentially available?
I don't think it would make Gudbranson available, but I love Kulikov, and I'd consider moving the 1st for him, depending on where it ends up.

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04-16-2013, 01:55 PM
  #569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I'd want at least three firsts (two of which relatively proven), or if failing one of those 1sts, a roster player that can make an impact in my top 6 or top 4 immediately...

So basically the packages I said if not slightly more...

Really...

Coburn + 1st 2013 (top 10) + 1st 2014/Laughton + Cousins

That's a pretty awesome package.


I am done with deals like this. We need to build through the draft rather than give up our high picks and assets. We have a very good young core here and need to keep building around it. Do you really think that adding that one stud player is going to put us in cup contention? You just gave up five players, four who could have a major impact on this club for years. Heck, I would keep the four and move Coburn for a young player or decent pick or picks if need be. By moving assets and future high picks also ties your hands up down the road when you are one player away from being a cup contender and want to make a move. I hope the Flyers are on the right track this time and make the smart play by adding young talent and making the smart moves vs the big splash. Homer started something in 2011 and he needs to stay the course.

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04-16-2013, 01:58 PM
  #570
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We dont know where they are because the season isn;t over yet
better keep first two thanks

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04-16-2013, 02:01 PM
  #571
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post


I am done with deals like this. We need to build through the draft rather than give up our high picks and assets. We have a very good young core here and need to keep building around it. Do you really think that adding that one stud player is going to put us in cup contention? You just gave up five players, four who could have a major impact on this club for years. Heck, I would keep the four and move Coburn for a young player or decent pick or picks if need be. By moving assets and future high picks also ties your hands up down the road when you are one player away from being a cup contender and want to make a move. I hope the Flyers are on the right track this time and make the smart play by adding young talent and making the smart moves vs the big splash. Homer started something in 2011 and he needs to stay the course.
I'm done with just taking Nurse and floating around quietly.

That's not going to solve the problem we have though. He's just going to "hopefully" replace Timonen down the line.

Until then we're relying on Gustafsson, Gostisbehere, Bourdon, and/or Manning to fill up two slots for PMDs.

Basically...we need a lot of PMDs...

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04-16-2013, 02:09 PM
  #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post


I am done with deals like this. We need to build through the draft rather than give up our high picks and assets. We have a very good young core here and need to keep building around it. Do you really think that adding that one stud player is going to put us in cup contention? You just gave up five players, four who could have a major impact on this club for years. Heck, I would keep the four and move Coburn for a young player or decent pick or picks if need be. By moving assets and future high picks also ties your hands up down the road when you are one player away from being a cup contender and want to make a move. I hope the Flyers are on the right track this time and make the smart play by adding young talent and making the smart moves vs the big splash. Homer started something in 2011 and he needs to stay the course.
yup, I really think that this would be a perfect year to start building thru the draft. i realize that likely puts Couturier as the major asset to land a young PMD tho. I am not ready to give up on Couturier but if he lands us the right guy then i would consider it.
The thing is the Flyers have a very, very impatient owner and I am frightened to think what he could do this offseason.

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04-16-2013, 02:13 PM
  #573
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yup, I really think that this would be a perfect year to start building thru the draft. i realize that likely puts Couturier as the major asset to land a young PMD tho. I am not ready to give up on Couturier but if he lands us the right guy then i would consider it.
The thing is the Flyers have a very, very impatient owner and I am frightened to think what he could do this offseason.
Alright...let's saying we're going to be patient...

Then you need to move Hartnell for 1st/PMD...

McGinn - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Couturier - Schenn
Cousins - Laughton - xxxxxx
Rinaldo - xxxxxx - xxxxxx

xxxxxx - Schenn
Nurse - xxxxxx
Gustafsson - Gostisbehere

Mason
Stolarz

That's our young team as it stands right now.

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04-16-2013, 02:16 PM
  #574
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People need to stop with Weber. He's not going anywhere unless he demands a trade from Nashville. Even then, the cost to acquire Weber is going to be astronomical and it's going to set any franchise back significantly that acquires him. He's the face of the Nashville franchise and he's the most recognizable figure on that team. People just need to stop with Weber.

Holmgren and Pryor have conceded that the only way to get a number one defenseman is to draft and develop them. I'm going to guess that by that statement, the Flyers are probably looking at defenseman this draft and gut feeling says it's going to be a draft in which defensemen will be given the priority by the franchise.

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04-16-2013, 02:17 PM
  #575
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People need to stop with Weber. He's not going anywhere unless he demands a trade from Nashville. Even then, the cost to acquire Weber is going to be astronomical and it's going to set any franchise back significantly that acquires him. He's the face of the Nashville franchise and he's the most recognizable figure on that team. People just need to stop with Weber.

Holmgren and Pryor have conceded that the only way to get a number one defenseman is to draft and develop them. I'm going to guess that by that statement, the Flyers are probably looking at defenseman this draft and gut feeling says it's going to be a draft in which defensemen will be given the priority by the franchise.
So I'm guessing most people would be down with trying to trade Coburn and Hartnell for top 20 picks this year?

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