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Josh Gorges $3.9M/6 years Bad Contract or Good?

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Old
04-16-2013, 03:43 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
We have one but he is out injured. Funny that some said Emelin was this and that, then he gets hurt and those same people say we can't replace him...funny
Gorges would be injured and Emelin in the lineup, and we would have the same problems. The problems this team has defensively has a lot to do with the fact that both Emelin AND Diaz are out, and that BOTH Beaulieu AND Drewiske, two 14 minutes a night d-men, are in. That's 46 minutes left for your two top pair, which is incredibly big considering Bouillon and Gorges are part of it.

Besides, Emelin was not playing like a top-4 d-man lately, neither was he intimidating anyone out there. Winning the zone against him was getting painfully easy and he was a bigger danger physically for Price than anyone else playing against us.

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04-16-2013, 03:45 PM
  #177
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I hate him with passion

Not physical defensive dman with zero offensive instinc. His first pass is putrid and his slap shot is horrible. He can't even fight .I was embarrassed when he fought mclaren (?) .


That post is embarassing on many levels.

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04-16-2013, 03:49 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post


That post is embarassing on many levels.
Besides the fighting part which is overblown, it's true that Gorges brings absolutely no extra dimension to his game than shot-blocking. And this dimension is much less useful than it was, now that we're allowing many less shots per game than we used to under Martin.

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04-16-2013, 03:51 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Gorges would be injured and Emelin in the lineup, and we would have the same problems. The problems this team has defensively has a lot to do with the fact that both Emelin AND Diaz are out, and that BOTH Beaulieu AND Drewiske, two 14 minutes a night d-men, are in. That's 46 minutes left for your two top pair, which is incredibly big considering Bouillon and Gorges are part of it.

Besides, Emelin was not playing like a top-4 d-man lately, neither was he intimidating anyone out there. Winning the zone against him was getting painfully easy and he was a bigger danger physically for Price than anyone else playing against us.
I don't know of any NHL teams that have 6 top 4 calibre defensemen so they don't suffer with 2 guys out. It's not a problem that is exclusive to the Habs.

That being said it's not an excuse for Price to **** the bed Saturday or the team in general to play like crap yesterday. Having Diaz and Emelin out is not worthy of giving up 6 goals per game instead of 2.5.

Emelin had a rough game vs Boston, but he has been a more than adequate top 4 guy this year. He IS intimidating out there because he has a reputation. If he didn't Lucic probably keeps skating with his head down and gets smoked. Any short coming he has in terms of defensive coverage are more than made up for by his smarts and skill with the puck, physical game and shot blocking.

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04-16-2013, 03:55 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Besides the fighting part which is overblown, it's true that Gorges brings absolutely no extra dimension to his game than shot-blocking. And this dimension is much less useful than it was, now that we're allowing many less shots per game than we used to under Martin.
He's a smart, gritty team player that helps prevent goals. Anybody who judges NHL players soely on how hard they hit or how well they fight is severely out to lunch.

Saying Luke Schenn is better than Gorges proves my point.

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04-16-2013, 03:59 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
He's a smart, gritty team player that helps prevent goals. Anybody who judges NHL players soely on how hard they hit or how well they fight is severely out to lunch.

Saying Luke Schenn is better than Gorges proves my point.
*sigh*.

Josh Gorges is gritty now... Awesome.

Being a team player doesn't make you worth 4M per year. As for being smart, yeah. His pass to the front of the net was really smart yesterday. It happens to him several times also.

As for his comments, they're all but "smart" in general. On the ice, as soon as the puck reaches his stick in the offensive zone, the play ends. And this is when he's not already on his own blueline to compensate for his total lack of mobility whatsoever.

As for Luke Schenn, go start a poll on the main boards. You'll see how much it proves your "point", and how much it's about you drinking some serious kool-aid.

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04-16-2013, 04:08 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
*sigh*.

Josh Gorges is gritty now... Awesome.

Being a team player doesn't make you worth 4M per year. As for being smart, yeah. His pass to the front of the net was really smart yesterday. It happens to him several times also.

As for his comments, they're all but "smart" in general. On the ice, as soon as the puck reaches his stick in the offensive zone, the play ends. And this is when he's not already on his own blueline to compensate for his total lack of mobility whatsoever.

As for Luke Schenn, go start a poll on the main boards. You'll see how much it proves your "point", and how much it's about you drinking some serious kool-aid.
Once again you refuse to come back with any real substance.

So if a guy makes a mistake he automatically sucks and is no good? Gorges has had a couple rough games, but so has Price. It happens. Overall he has been very solid and steady this year. Anybody that posts a +14 playing tough minutes on last year's team has to be DAMN good defensively.

Not sure what "pass to the front of the net" you're talking about, but he is usually a smart passer, makes the low risk play and is a good complement for PK(who sometimes makes the high risk play). He isn't the most creative player, but he doesn't make dumb plays either.

Why would I start a poll on the main board, I could care less who wins popularity contests. Most fans no squat about hockey they only follow their team, some Hab fans don't even follow their team until they lose and then look for something to complain about.

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04-16-2013, 04:25 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Once again you refuse to come back with any real substance.

So if a guy makes a mistake he automatically sucks and is no good? Gorges has had a couple rough games, but so has Price. It happens. Overall he has been very solid and steady this year. Anybody that posts a +14 playing tough minutes on last year's team has to be DAMN good defensively.

Not sure what "pass to the front of the net" you're talking about, but he is usually a smart passer, makes the low risk play and is a good complement for PK(who sometimes makes the high risk play). He isn't the most creative player, but he doesn't make dumb plays either.

Why would I start a poll on the main board, I could care less who wins popularity contests. Most fans no squat about hockey they only follow their team, some Hab fans don't even follow their team until they lose and then look for something to complain about.
You sure don't like you follow a lot of other teams besides the Habs if you think that highly of Josh Gorges.

What about the 3-2 goal yesterday, if you're looking for a pass in front of the net? You sure have one hell of a selective memory.

In the offensive zone, he keeps giving back the puck to the other team with his stupid, weak, untimed dumps-in. He's slow as mollasses and more often than not, he often is nowhere to be found on the offensive blueline because he's ALWAYS scared of getting caught off guard... which is why it's close to impossible to sustain any kind of forecheck or offensive zone puck possession when he's on the ice, because he's completely deprived of ANY puck skill and "IceQ".

Without even looking back at your history, I'm sure you're one of the first to talk of the +/- as a flawed stat when it backs up your point. You're once again cherry picking some stat after saying things as ridiculous and stupid as "Gorges was superior to Subban before this year". Once again, if Gorges was to get traded, I'm pretty sure you'd completely flip 180 on your ideas and convictions, to bash him and praise the other ones we got in exchange for him.

As for fans on the main boards, you sure act arrogant and all-mighty for a guy who can't even back up his claims and ask the general opinions of both players. The knowledgable fans will still tell you that Schenn, while being much, much younger than Gorges, actually is:

- More physical
- Faster and quicker as a skater
- Has better offensive instincts
and finally, that his defensive game is improving steadily, and that while he's still not an elite shutdown d-man, he'll still be sooner than later, all that while showing a more rounded game than Gorges, even on a bad day.

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04-16-2013, 04:35 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
You sure don't like you follow a lot of other teams besides the Habs if you think that highly of Josh Gorges.

What about the 3-2 goal yesterday, if you're looking for a pass in front of the net? You sure have one hell of a selective memory.

In the offensive zone, he keeps giving back the puck to the other team with his stupid, weak, untimed dumps-in. He's slow as mollasses and more often than not, he often is nowhere to be found on the offensive blueline because he's ALWAYS scared of getting caught off guard... which is why it's close to impossible to sustain any kind of forecheck or offensive zone puck possession when he's on the ice, because he's completely deprived of ANY puck skill and "IceQ".

Without even looking back at your history, I'm sure you're one of the first to talk of the +/- as a flawed stat when it backs up your point. You're once again cherry picking some stat after saying things as ridiculous and stupid as "Gorges was superior to Subban before this year". Once again, if Gorges was to get traded, I'm pretty sure you'd completely flip 180 on your ideas and convictions, to bash him and praise the other ones we got in exchange for him.

As for fans on the main boards, you sure act arrogant and all-mighty for a guy who can't even back up his claims and ask the general opinions of both players. The knowledgable fans will still tell you that Schenn, while being much, much younger than Gorges, actually is:

- More physical
- Faster and quicker as a skater
- Has better offensive instincts
and finally, that his defensive game is improving steadily, and that while he's still not an elite shutdown d-man, he'll still be sooner than later, all that while showing a more rounded game than Gorges, even on a bad day.

None of your points even matter though, Gorges is a great leader.






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Old
04-16-2013, 04:37 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post


That post is embarassing on many levels.
The avatar should have warned you about what to expect.

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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
You would take Gorges in your team before Josh Gorges? Really?
Gorges over Schenn? I'd only consider it because of Schenn's age. Schenn is a far dumber player (though he can still improve) and even slower than Gorges. Don't let his draft pedigree fool you, he's basically Emelin with less puck and skating skill. Even the homers on the Leaf board gave up on him.

I'd take Schenn over Boullion though. He'd have been a nice compliment on this team, but in his proper role on the bottom pair. He's lead the Flyers to the draft lotto.


Last edited by Et le But: 04-16-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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Old
04-16-2013, 04:48 PM
  #186
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The avatar should have warned you about what to expect.



Gorges over Schenn? I'd only consider it because of Schenn's age. Schenn is a far dumber player (though he can still improve) and even slower than Gorges. Don't let his draft pedigree fool you, he's basically Emelin with less puck and skating skill. Even the homers on the Leaf board gave up on him.

I'd take Schenn over Boullion though. He'd have been a nice compliment on this team, but in his proper role on the bottom pair. He's lead the Flyers to the draft lotto.
Schenn is quite mobile for a guy of his size. His physicality is more regular than Emelin's too, and he has much more upside. People gave up on him so quickly...

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04-16-2013, 04:51 PM
  #187
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This has nothing to do with tonight's game as I have brought this up before.

Not to knock on the guy, but I'm still unclear as to why he's making this much money? Leadership and shot blocking can be had for much less.

Skillset:

Above average defensively, but smallish and unable to clear the front of the net. Physical game leaves a lot to be desired. Good locker room guy and a leader.

0 offensive ability.
He fits the Habs mold of the past years- smallish, not physical, mediocre defensive skills.

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04-16-2013, 05:51 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
You sure don't like you follow a lot of other teams besides the Habs if you think that highly of Josh Gorges.

What about the 3-2 goal yesterday, if you're looking for a pass in front of the net? You sure have one hell of a selective memory.

In the offensive zone, he keeps giving back the puck to the other team with his stupid, weak, untimed dumps-in. He's slow as mollasses and more often than not, he often is nowhere to be found on the offensive blueline because he's ALWAYS scared of getting caught off guard... which is why it's close to impossible to sustain any kind of forecheck or offensive zone puck possession when he's on the ice, because he's completely deprived of ANY puck skill and "IceQ".

Without even looking back at your history, I'm sure you're one of the first to talk of the +/- as a flawed stat when it backs up your point. You're once again cherry picking some stat after saying things as ridiculous and stupid as "Gorges was superior to Subban before this year". Once again, if Gorges was to get traded, I'm pretty sure you'd completely flip 180 on your ideas and convictions, to bash him and praise the other ones we got in exchange for him.

As for fans on the main boards, you sure act arrogant and all-mighty for a guy who can't even back up his claims and ask the general opinions of both players. The knowledgable fans will still tell you that Schenn, while being much, much younger than Gorges, actually is:

- More physical
- Faster and quicker as a skater
- Has better offensive instincts
and finally, that his defensive game is improving steadily, and that while he's still not an elite shutdown d-man, he'll still be sooner than later, all that while showing a more rounded game than Gorges, even on a bad day.
I follow pretty much the whole NHL. Just about every NHL team could use a guy like him to upgrade their top 4, on some teams he'd be top 2.

The 3-2 goal yesterday, the pass was from Giroux to Voracek. Only in your imagination did Gorges pass to the front of the net, for a guy with great recollection it's pretty fuzzy on that goal. Yes Gorges missed the puck and it led to a goal, but if you're going to crap on a guy at least have it be SOME semblance of reality.

Not sure where you get that he keeps giving the opposition the puck in the offensive zone or is slow as molasses...must be your imagination talking.

The +- stat CAN be a flawed stat if you just blindly look at it with no context...but I didn't do that I gave you very good context and you had nothing to come back with...your only comeback is that "it's a flawed stat".

For a guy that is so big, strong good, fast and skilled he sure wasn't playing much on a crappy Toronto team last year...16 minutes a night. He was not even getting #4 minutes on a poor Phillie defense until 2 weeks ago when Grossman went out and they had no choice but to play him. He's massively overrated.

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04-16-2013, 06:32 PM
  #189
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I follow pretty much the whole NHL. Just about every NHL team could use a guy like him to upgrade their top 4, on some teams he'd be top 2.

The 3-2 goal yesterday, the pass was from Giroux to Voracek. Only in your imagination did Gorges pass to the front of the net, for a guy with great recollection it's pretty fuzzy on that goal. Yes Gorges missed the puck and it led to a goal, but if you're going to crap on a guy at least have it be SOME semblance of reality.

Not sure where you get that he keeps giving the opposition the puck in the offensive zone or is slow as molasses...must be your imagination talking.

The +- stat CAN be a flawed stat if you just blindly look at it with no context...but I didn't do that I gave you very good context and you had nothing to come back with...your only comeback is that "it's a flawed stat".

For a guy that is so big, strong good, fast and skilled he sure wasn't playing much on a crappy Toronto team last year...16 minutes a night. He was not even getting #4 minutes on a poor Phillie defense until 2 weeks ago when Grossman went out and they had no choice but to play him. He's massively overrated.
He isn't a top 2 on any team. What the...

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04-16-2013, 06:45 PM
  #190
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I don't think it's fair to constantly refer back to "2010 playoff run Gorges" as something that we should expect to see from him on a regular basis. Just like how it wouldn't be fair to expect the same from Halak, Cammalleri or Gill (three players off the top of my head who had monstrously above-average runs that playoffs with us).
This is one of the most hilarious post i've ever read.

It's not fair to refer to Gorges as the 2010 playoffs run gorges because he was too good ?

I'm speechless. Oh boy...

Gill and Gorges basically spent entire periods in their own zones blocking shots. You don't win hockey games like that. Nine times out of ten the habs lose the Washington series and are out in the first round playing the way they did.

People were brainwashed into believing Jacques Martin's system was actual real hockey while it was happening because they love the habs and want them to be great. But now that we actually have real hockey, one would think people would wise up about this stuff. I guess not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Subban was worse than Gorges the last 2 years. This year he's taken his game up a couple of notches.
And people say Montreal fans know hockey.

Holy crap.

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04-16-2013, 09:08 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
He isn't a top 2 on any team. What the...
Don't bother. He'll come back saying he'd take Gorges before Brooks Orpik or Travis Hamonic to build a team...

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04-16-2013, 10:19 PM
  #192
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Just watch Gorges's interview after practice. Why can't I remember an interview with him after we did something good. It's always "pull up our socks", "do we cower or do we grow", "we need to be ready to come out and play, this is unacceptable", etc.

I hope he's listening to his own advice and gets back to being a defensive beast. Getting sick listening to his "captainly" speeches and not seeing him make the right play.

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04-16-2013, 10:46 PM
  #193
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Just watch Gorges's interview after practice. Why can't I remember an interview with him after we did something good. It's always "pull up our socks", "do we cower or do we grow", "we need to be ready to come out and play, this is unacceptable", etc.

I hope he's listening to his own advice and gets back to being a defensive beast. Getting sick listening to his "captainly" speeches and not seeing him make the right play.
This. If he took it easy and just minded doing his own job, people, at least I, would tend to be much less critical of his play.

But this, coupled with his attitude during the lockout and whenever he has to speak about PK... I'm getting fed up of his crap.

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04-17-2013, 06:45 AM
  #194
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This is one of the most hilarious post i've ever read.

It's not fair to refer to Gorges as the 2010 playoffs run gorges because he was too good ?

I'm speechless. Oh boy...

Gill and Gorges basically spent entire periods in their own zones blocking shots. You don't win hockey games like that. Nine times out of ten the habs lose the Washington series and are out in the first round playing the way they did.

People were brainwashed into believing Jacques Martin's system was actual real hockey while it was happening because they love the habs and want them to be great. But now that we actually have real hockey, one would think people would wise up about this stuff. I guess not.



And people say Montreal fans know hockey.

Holy crap.
Anybody that follows hockey closely will tell you that last year Gorges was the better of the two and covered for Subban more than the other way around. That's not to say that Subban sucked, but he was taking a lot more chances than this year.

If Gorges is your #1 d-man(like last year) you probably aren't a winning team, this year he is #3 or 4 on most nights and the team is winning.

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04-17-2013, 06:49 AM
  #195
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He isn't a top 2 on any team. What the...
He would be top 2 on teams like Colorado and Florida just off the top of my head.

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04-17-2013, 07:20 PM
  #196
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-4 to tonight so far

He's worth max 1,5M$ ATM

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04-17-2013, 07:23 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Don't bother. He'll come back saying he'd take Gorges before Brooks Orpik or Travis Hamonic to build a team...
top 2 maybe for a Swiss league

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04-17-2013, 07:24 PM
  #198
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-4 to tonight so far

He's worth max 1,5M$ ATM
he is a 2.5 mil max in this NHL but #4-5 like him are now 4 mil players

what a joke ?

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04-17-2013, 07:41 PM
  #199
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Anybody that follows hockey closely will tell you that last year Gorges was the better of the two and covered for Subban more than the other way around. That's not to say that Subban sucked, but he was taking a lot more chances than this year.

If Gorges is your #1 d-man(like last year) you probably aren't a winning team, this year he is #3 or 4 on most nights and the team is winning.
For someone on here as often as you, I'm surprised you don't watch the games.

Not on any universe has Gorges ever been better than Subban, ever.

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04-17-2013, 07:51 PM
  #200
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He would be top 2 on teams like Colorado and Florida just off the top of my head.
And those would be terrible teams. So there you go.

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