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Has Marc Bergevin made his first mistake as a Habs GM?

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Old
04-16-2013, 02:20 PM
  #176
wally weir
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Murray is no more a top 4 guy on a contender than Bouillon. I would argue that Bouillon has clearly been the better player this season.
My point is that Bergevin could not foresee the loss of Emelin to injury. The price for Murray was too high. The loss of Emelin exposes a lack of depth and toughness at the defender position and that is why we played poorly against TO and PHI.

Is Murray better than Bouillon? Maybe, maybe not...

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04-16-2013, 02:25 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Still wouldn't help us with Emelin and Diaz out. O'byrne at anything more than 18 minutes is asking for trouble.
Do you feel that when Diaz comes back he can play top 4 minutes?
I like Diaz but he does not bring a physical presence, especially not after a concussion. I really don't like our top 4 defense for the playoffs, but i will not blame Bergevin for it.

Eventually our young players in Hamilton can fill in in 2013-14 and beyond.

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04-16-2013, 02:26 PM
  #178
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We have five guys capable of top four minutes when healthy, who was really available who is better than what we have and at an acceptable price? Diaz was close to a return and Emelin was healthy, there was no reason to gamble the future on a rental who was only an upgrade on Bouillon/Weber/the Rookies. O'Byrne flat out isn't good. Bouwmeester was well out of our price range. Regehr isn't close to worth what was paid for him. Murray wouldn't have made our team if our top 6 were healthy and he was also not worth close to what was paid for him.

I think people are expecting too much of Bergevin in year one. You can't transform a roster top to bottom in one calendar year. If Marc determines Desharnais is a problem he will be moved. Same goes for most of the other guys on the roster. You couldn't have expected him to dump Desharnais immediately after the season he had last year and the francophone factor. Sure four years is a little ridiculous but I don't envision DD will play the whole contract here.

The Bouillon extension was a little questionable but depth is nice to have, I'm sure if Cube can't handle the minutes next year he'll understand being scratched. Although Therrien loves him like a son so maybe it will be mildly infuriating like Darche under Martin.

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04-16-2013, 02:34 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by wally weir View Post
My point is that Bergevin could not foresee the loss of Emelin to injury. The price for Murray was too high. The loss of Emelin exposes a lack of depth and toughness at the defender position and that is why we played poorly against TO and PHI.

Is Murray better than Bouillon? Maybe, maybe not...
Clinching a playoff spot has more to do with it than Emelin IMHO.

We played poorly against Toronto because our goalie played like crap and dug the team a whole.

Yesterday 95% of the team, including goalie, played poorly. Not directly related to losing Emelin.

Losing Emelin hurts, but trading for a guy like Murray wouldn't really help because he is no better than Drewiske or Bouillon filling in as a top 4 guy

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04-16-2013, 02:37 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
We have five guys capable of top four minutes when healthy, who was really available who is better than what we have and at an acceptable price? Diaz was close to a return and Emelin was healthy, there was no reason to gamble the future on a rental who was only an upgrade on Bouillon/Weber/the Rookies. O'Byrne flat out isn't good. Bouwmeester was well out of our price range. Regehr isn't close to worth what was paid for him. Murray wouldn't have made our team if our top 6 were healthy and he was also not worth close to what was paid for him.

I think people are expecting too much of Bergevin in year one. You can't transform a roster top to bottom in one calendar year. If Marc determines Desharnais is a problem he will be moved. Same goes for most of the other guys on the roster. You couldn't have expected him to dump Desharnais immediately after the season he had last year and the francophone factor. Sure four years is a little ridiculous but I don't envision DD will play the whole contract here.

The Bouillon extension was a little questionable but depth is nice to have, I'm sure if Cube can't handle the minutes next year he'll understand being scratched. Although Therrien loves him like a son so maybe it will be mildly infuriating like Darche under Martin.
I thought the Bouillon extension was a no brainer given how well he's played. Even if his play declines it's a 1 year deal at not a lot of money(500-700k above baragain basement). That's not even considering his impact in the room and on our young d-men. His attitude and work ethic are exemplary like Gorges.

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04-16-2013, 02:39 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Clinching a playoff spot has more to do with it than Emelin IMHO.

We played poorly against Toronto because our goalie played like crap and dug the team a whole.

Yesterday 95% of the team, including goalie, played poorly. Not directly related to losing Emelin.

Losing Emelin hurts, but trading for a guy like Murray wouldn't really help because he is no better than Drewiske or Bouillon filling in as a top 4 guy
I agree with your sentiments about MB's decisions (we have to be patient and I'm glad he didn't move anything), but I do have to say that Emelin is a big reason for the team's play. He is vastly underrated for what he does defensively as well as in launching the counterattack. He also has a very good shot and can maneuver well at the blueline. I feel like defensively it's a trickle down effect with different pairings as well as nobody who can flat out level a guy to prevent the puck from entering our zone. I also think that he wins most of his battles, resulting in getting the puck out and that counts for a lot.

So I'd say 50% was directly related to Emelin. I have a big problem with some underacheiving fwds, however. Then again, having Markov and Emelin 5 on 5 helps them out a lot. 74 has kept the puck in the O zone so many times this year and last night it kept coming out...we had no pressure in their zone.

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04-16-2013, 03:00 PM
  #182
wally weir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I thought the Bouillon extension was a no brainer given how well he's played. Even if his play declines it's a 1 year deal at not a lot of money(500-700k above baragain basement). That's not even considering his impact in the room and on our young d-men. His attitude and work ethic are exemplary like Gorges.
I really like Bouillon as a 6-7 defender. I can see Bouillon helping keeping the D together until Emelin is healed and ready (Oct-Nov hopefully) or until the young guys (Tinordi-Beaulieu....) can fill in. And then I trust that Bouillon will be assuming his role quietly until an injury happens. One year at that kind of money is not a mistake by Bergevin.

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Old
04-16-2013, 04:26 PM
  #183
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All gms make mistakes even the best ones. Not making a move is not to be placed in the "good move" category btw.

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04-16-2013, 04:28 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by MSSLYNX View Post
All gms make mistakes even the best ones. Not making a move is not to be placed in the "good move" category btw.
Like poker there are times to "fold em". Sometimes the best moves are the ones not made...Like the Subban/Price/Pacioretty for Lecavalier if it was true.

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04-16-2013, 04:54 PM
  #185
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Ryan O'Bryne was had for a 4th round pick.

His stats... 6'5" 234 lbs, 6pts, -2, 60pim 18:38 minutes average.

Tell me a big physical D that plays 19Min a game would not be useful to the habs?

Bergevin missed the boat

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04-16-2013, 05:01 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Ryan O'Bryne was had for a 4th round pick.

His stats... 6'5" 234 lbs, 6pts, -2, 60pim 18:38 minutes average.

Tell me a big physical D that plays 19Min a game would not be useful to the habs?

Bergevin missed the boat
Do you not remember O'byrne playing for us...

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04-16-2013, 05:04 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by ROSSter View Post
Do you not remember O'byrne playing for us...
Grass is green and majestic emerald as **** on the other side to some people.

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04-16-2013, 05:05 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by ROSSter View Post
Do you not remember O'byrne playing for us...
He or she was probably 8 at the time.

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04-16-2013, 05:06 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Ryan O'Bryne was had for a 4th round pick.

His stats... 6'5" 234 lbs, 6pts, -2, 60pim 18:38 minutes average.

Tell me a big physical D that plays 19Min a game would not be useful to the habs?

Bergevin missed the boat
Admit it, you never saw O'Byrne play.

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04-16-2013, 05:06 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Ryan O'Bryne was had for a 4th round pick.

His stats... 6'5" 234 lbs, 6pts, -2, 60pim 18:38 minutes average.

Tell me a big physical D that plays 19Min a game would not be useful to the habs?

Bergevin missed the boat
Obyrne is to big and physical for Habs liking. We like them small and soft. MB is not much different than the other guy.

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04-16-2013, 05:08 PM
  #191
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Nothing we can do about it now but one thing I hope Bergevin addresses is our toughness on defense. It's very very soft and it shows when we lose, when we win its just less noticeable. Bouillon is tough in his own right but his physical presence isn't impressive. Tinordi can't come soon enough and were gonna have to look for alittle help outside the organization

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04-16-2013, 05:08 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by ROSSter View Post
Do you not remember O'byrne playing for us...
That was two years ago... Not saying that we need to resign the guy, but he is damn better than Beaulieu or Drewiski at this point. Plus O'Bryne can fight of needed. A depth move that we could have used this year.

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04-16-2013, 05:15 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Admit it, you never saw O'Byrne play.
I've watched more habs game than you've had hot meals buddy.

O'Bryne was shipped out of MTL because he was not (to quote a Therrien this year when describing why DD is given extra time) 'good people'!

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04-16-2013, 05:46 PM
  #194
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LOL @ people trashing Obyrne when we have Drewiskie. O'Byrne is superior, period whether you like him or not. I never liked that he got traded because he was big, physical and could fight....but that's not a Habs trait so...

Bergevin has done more good than bad but even with Emelin healthy, Drewiskie for a 5th....I don't know...I just don't like this move. Why not get a guy who is actually a regular?

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04-16-2013, 05:53 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
Obyrne is to big and physical for Habs liking. We like them small and soft. MB is not much different than the other guy.
Must be why they drafted Tinordi...because he is small and soft.

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04-16-2013, 05:54 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
LOL @ people trashing Obyrne when we have Drewiskie. O'Byrne is superior, period whether you like him or not. I never liked that he got traded because he was big, physical and could fight....but that's not a Habs trait so...

Bergevin has done more good than bad but even with Emelin healthy, Drewiskie for a 5th....I don't know...I just don't like this move. Why not get a guy who is actually a regular?
O'byrne has more physical tools, but Drewiske has better hockey sense, makes him a smarter player in pressure situations. OB always seems to make the bad play at worse times.

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04-16-2013, 05:58 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Bergevin has done more good than bad but even with Emelin healthy, Drewiskie for a 5th....I don't know...I just don't like this move. Why not get a guy who is actually a regular?
Umm...because it would have cost too much? (what with Diaz coming back and Emelin being healthy at the time)

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04-16-2013, 05:59 PM
  #198
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How bad is Emelin's injury?

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04-16-2013, 06:30 PM
  #199
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Umm...because it would have cost too much? (what with Diaz coming back and Emelin being healthy at the time)
And a 1st round exit. Glad we were frugal! The D is still meh with both Diaz and Emelin in the lineup.

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04-16-2013, 06:59 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by wally weir View Post
My point is that Bergevin could not foresee the loss of Emelin to injury. The price for Murray was too high. The loss of Emelin exposes a lack of depth and toughness at the defender position and that is why we played poorly against TO and PHI.

Is Murray better than Bouillon? Maybe, maybe not...

I love posts like this.

Murray has 80 hits and 83 blocked shots so far this season.

Those 80 hits would place him number one in Montreal since Emelin is out. Those 83 blocked shots would place him number two in Montreal after Gorges.

Murray is exactly what Montreal needs.

Also, he would not have allowed Rosehill to do what he did to Gallagher or Pacioretty without having to answer for it.

We are too used to seeing soft defense in Montreal to fully appreciate what a physical DMan can do for a team. Emelin was great at hitting but didnt block a lot of shots nor was a good fighter.

Weber and St-Denis have spoiled a lot of fans.

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